Nukeproof Mega - GMAC - Nucular 12F trail/enduro build

briangv99

1 kW
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
339
Location
Canberra, Australia
Five or so years ago I bought a run out special Nukeproof frame from ChainReactionCycles. At the time the appealing features of the Mega TR were the relatively large frame triangle for battery, removable dropouts that made for a easy conversion to steel plates for fitting a hub motor, all packaged in a frame with modern geometry suitable for some hard single tracks that we have locally.

After a detour, exploring using a Tangent Astro 3220 mid drive, I've come back full circle to the original plan of installing a MAC motor, but with a twist. Since my original MAC plans, Grin Bikes came out with the awesome GMAC. Grin addressed most of my lingering complaints with previous MAC builds. Number one, no more clutch bind up and fail. Two a much more robust and sophisticated slop free torque arm, eliminating the need for a separate torque arm. Three, cable exit the site of the axle instead of the end of the axle, which is much better protected from stray rocks slicing the wires.

The side benefits/disadvantages of no more clutch is the ability to implement regen and active braking. The downside is the motor will always be turning with the resultant drag from core loses of magnets passing over the stator at a 5:1 ratio. The ability to regen for the most part offset the additional core losses. To mitigate the extra drag while pedalling, I'll also be feeding in PAS through an E-rider torque sensing BB.

Now all that was missing to cap off the list of components was a suitable controller. Enter Nucular with their awesome 12 fet controller. This controller really does it all and supports all the tuning features I wanted and more. Regen couple with active braking gave me the opportunity to try out something I'd seen Ripperton implement with his Yamaha R1 race bike years ago, a pressure tranducer coupled to brake master cylinder.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/v...=2&t=63341&p=947733&hilit=regen+bleed#p947733

Shimano MC Pressure transducer Nucular .jpg

I'm still amazed how well this just works. The modulation of the brake force through the Nuc is super smooth and quite strong all the way down to a stop. It doesn't have brake locking power, just smooth strong deceleration. Of course I'll still have the back up of a full friction brake on the front wheel.

A side benefit of ditching the rear disc rotor is that I'll be able to run ATF in the GMAC for cooling without any fear of any stray ATF lubricating the brake rotor and pads.

Now hub motors aren't light and unsprung weight isn't great for maintaining traction in rocky terrain, so I've shed as much weight from the rear wheel as possible. The GMAC is relatively light weight, coming in at less than 4kg. To keep that weight down I've laced the motor with a Lightbicycle carbon 26" 40mm internal width rim, using 15g spokes, rolling on Maxxis 26x2.8" DHR2 tubeless tyres.

GMAC laced.jpg

I've only just got the bike wired and running on the weekend, so there's a list of things still to get done, like fitting a front brake, wiring the PAS, fit dropper post etc, so this is how it looks at the moment.

Nukeproof Mega TR GMAC Nucular.jpg

So far the few test up and down the local street has been very promising, the Nuc 12F GMAC combo is super smooth and quite punchy at 2500 watts. I did have a slight brain fart during the build and forgot to secure the torque arm, hence the rejoined wires near the back axle and having to replace a hall sensor.
 
I thought the GMAC should be paired with 24F?

Or does your usage allow leaving so much power (torque) on the table?
 
Nah, 12f is a good match for the GMAC, it can push way more phase amps (well over 200a for the 12f) than the GMAC can cope with for any length of time.

In fact Grin match the GMAC with the Phaserunner which only pushes 100a phase amps max.
 
Build looks great! But why use a 10000w controller on a 2600w peak motor? am I missing something?
 
BDamari said:
Build looks great! But why use a 10000w controller on a 2600w peak motor? am I missing something?

Thanks BD :) I did consider going with a 6 fet Nuc, but didn't want to regret not getting a the 12f for its ability to dish out more phase amps.

So the goal here is extracting as much torque out of the little MAC motor as possible for those extra steep rocky hills. The only way to achieve that is with a reliable 200+ phase amps. The poor little 6 fet is only up to delivering 100a phase. So while the 12 fet can produce 10kW with a 20s, the important part of the equation for me is its ability to reliably deliver 200 phase amps.

As a direct comparison, the first gen of LMX 64 all used the Nuc 12f, that bike is pegged at 2500w due to the limitations of its battery. After riding a friends Nuc 12f LMX 64, I was surprised at its ability to lug up even the steepest of rocky hillside.

Next steps with the GMAC is to seal it up and get some ATF in it to cool it down. It isn't very hard to send the winding temps north of 150c as it stands.
 
raggertje said:
Happy to hear that with pushing the -12f pre order button- instead of the 6f yesterday evening :)

Looks like a great nimble ride that Nukeproof! :bolt: :bolt: :bolt:

Good call on going 12f. The Nuc is truly outstanding for what it can do and how easy it is to tune. Just be very very very patient waiting for it, it is worth it.
 
Be careful feeding high amps to the motor. My Mac 12T (Not GMAC), with 160 A phase last only a few kilometers.
 

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yes, high continuous sustain amps isn't a great idea for a MAC. Nonetheless oil cooling probably would have saved your MAC. Still better to go for a bigger motor if sustained high power levels are called for.
 
Nice, how is the feel in the brake handle with the pressure sensor?
Is it stiff, or is there some flex like a normal brake?
I considered the exact same thing, but I mounted a thumb throttle and kept both front and rear discs.
The thumb throttle for braking worked so good so I haven't gotten around to try the brake handle sensor setup.
 
j bjork said:
Nice, how is the feel in the brake handle with the pressure sensor?
Is it stiff, or is there some flex like a normal brake?
I considered the exact same thing, but I mounted a thumb throttle and kept both front and rear discs.
The thumb throttle for braking worked so good so I haven't gotten around to try the brake handle sensor setup.

Hi bjork, yes lever is firm, but could soften the lever by bleeding some air back into the master cylinder. I actually like a firm brake lever so will leave it the way it is for the moment.

I was keen to try out the active braking feature of the Nucular controller and so far it perform as well as I'd hoped for. The full electric brake also opens the door for oil cooling the GMAC without risk of leaking oil contaminating the rear brake pads and rotor.

Will report how it performs once I get the GMAC sealed up and ATF in.
 
briangv99 said:
Five or so years ago I bought a run out special Nukeproof frame from ChainReactionCycles. At the time the appealing features of the Mega TR were the relatively large frame triangle for battery, removable dropouts that made for a easy conversion to steel plates for fitting a hub motor, all packaged in a frame with modern geometry suitable for some hard single tracks that we have locally.

After a detour, exploring using a Tangent Astro 3220 mid drive, I've come back full circle to the original plan of installing a MAC motor, but with a twist. Since my original MAC plans, Grin Bikes came out with the awesome GMAC. Grin addressed most of my lingering complaints with previous MAC builds. Number one, no more clutch bind up and fail. Two a much more robust and sophisticated slop free torque arm, eliminating the need for a separate torque arm. Three, cable exit the site of the axle instead of the end of the axle, which is much better protected from stray rocks slicing the wires.

The side benefits/disadvantages of no more clutch is the ability to implement regen and active braking. The downside is the motor will always be turning with the resultant drag from core loses of magnets passing over the stator at a 5:1 ratio. The ability to regen for the most part offset the additional core losses. To mitigate the extra drag while pedalling, I'll also be feeding in PAS through an E-rider torque sensing BB.

Now all that was missing to cap off the list of components was a suitable controller. Enter Nucular with their awesome 12 fet controller. This controller really does it all and supports all the tuning features I wanted and more. Regen couple with active braking gave me the opportunity to try out something I'd seen Ripperton implement with his Yamaha R1 race bike years ago, a pressure tranducer coupled to brake master cylinder.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/v...=2&t=63341&p=947733&hilit=regen+bleed#p947733

Shimano MC Pressure transducer Nucular .jpg

I'm still amazed how well this just works. The modulation of the brake force through the Nuc is super smooth and quite strong all the way down to a stop. It doesn't have brake locking power, just smooth strong deceleration. Of course I'll still have the back up of a full friction brake on the front wheel.

A side benefit of ditching the rear disc rotor is that I'll be able to run ATF in the GMAC for cooling without any fear of any stray ATF lubricating the brake rotor and pads.

Now hub motors aren't light and unsprung weight isn't great for maintaining traction in rocky terrain, so I've shed as much weight from the rear wheel as possible. The GMAC is relatively light weight, coming in at less than 4kg. To keep that weight down I've laced the motor with a Lightbicycle carbon 26" 40mm internal width rim, using 15g spokes, rolling on Maxxis 26x2.8" DHR2 tubeless tyres.

GMAC laced.jpg

I've only just got the bike wired and running on the weekend, so there's a list of things still to get done, like fitting a front brake, wiring the PAS, fit dropper post etc, so this is how it looks at the moment.

Nukeproof Mega TR GMAC Nucular.jpg

So far the few test up and down the local street has been very promising, the Nuc 12F GMAC combo is super smooth and quite punchy at 2500 watts. I did have a slight brain fart during the build and forgot to secure the torque arm, hence the rejoined wires near the back axle and having to replace a hall sensor.

Wow, what a fastastic build you get there, Brian. :thumb: :thumb:

My 8T GMAC + PhaseRunner is still in the box waiting for "Ryde" rims and other stuff. The Samsung 21700-40T is on its way, should be 20S3P (nom. 72V, 12Ah, around 850wh / max at 84V, 105A) - I like it to be compact and adequate for my daily ride. This main pack should be hung under the downtube within a custom fiberglass case. Extra pack for range can be mounted between the dual crown of my front Boxxer shock absorber or rear rack on my Giant Glory, TBA.

Your ATF cooling inside GMAC also sounds very interesting. Do let us know exactly how you do it with parts detail. Might follow your footstep.

Be safe during this pandemic and enjoy your ride ! :D :D
 
Were there any updates on this? I have a BBSHD as my first ebike, but am having problems with gears (sturmey archer adjustment problems, then ordered a nuvinci tank) and realized my incoming CVT weighs almost what a GMAC does negating any weight savings at the wheel. I do a lot of trails, street, logging roads, no jumping tho I'm planning on installing a sensor on the suspension to cut throttle if the rear arm is ever maxed (iiot engineering useful for yet another hobby)

Anyway I plan on running the regen for the brake as the rear, longevity of the hub worries me, hows it doing with ATF?
 
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