Lessss
1 MW
http://www.fireflyenergy.com/images/stories/pdfs/G31%20Specification%20Sheet%20012308.pdf
Anyone try these out yet?
Anyone try these out yet?
OASIS battery
- Thread starter Lessss
- Start date
PJD
100 W
Nothing too impressive on the sheet as far as energy density goes. Same as the SLA's I currently own.
It's good to see that this is a real product finally after only about a year since Firefly first announced it.
But the thing is freekin HUGE!, 70.4 lbs, & you would need at least 2 or more to get the voltage.
The internal resistance is so low that it might be possible to use just a single tied to a hi-wattage DC converter.
Now that they're in production I hope they will come out with something a little smaller, but since this is a Catepillar spinoff I kinda doubt it.
Just a comment about their patented 'Microcell' foam plate technology.
PbA is about the last one to the game to utilize foam plates & Oasis simply may have been the first to apply it to PbA that they deserve a patent for it, perhaps they've added a slight twist to an old technique.
The steady increase in energy density of NiMH & NiCd all comes down to developing ways of increasing the surface area of the plates since volume for any given cell size is physically fixed.
NiCd's originally started with flat plates, then evolved to pocket plates, sintered plates, & finally foam plates at least 10 years ago.
All this is designed to increase the amount of surface area that electrons can cling to thereby increasing the number of Ah along with making it less resistance in how fast the electrons can be pulled out.
My own label for making plates more porous is fractalization, but I've never seen anyone else use the term so I hope I'm applying it correctly.
NiMH & any other battery technology benfits from these advances as they can typically applied directly without the need for any tailoring to the specific chemistry, the latest NiZn being offered for example will be using foam plates.
So what's more fractalized than foam?
Carpet or grass, more precisely, nano-grass which is the type of plate used in A123.
This is the key ingredient that distinguishes them from the rest of the generic LiFePO4 crowd & enable their cells to deliver such phenomenal performance.
Just as with foam plates, nano-grass is a plate structure that can be directly applied to just about any kind of chemistry battery & yield a similar bump in performance.
This is why I think we can expect to see all the old chemistries get a nano-tech makeover in the coming years, (patent disputes not withstanding) with Pb likely pulling up the rear once again.
Anyway, here's some firefly pr0n if you haven't checked it out already. (NSFW)
http://www.fireflyenergy.com/frfacts.htm
But the thing is freekin HUGE!, 70.4 lbs, & you would need at least 2 or more to get the voltage.
The internal resistance is so low that it might be possible to use just a single tied to a hi-wattage DC converter.
Now that they're in production I hope they will come out with something a little smaller, but since this is a Catepillar spinoff I kinda doubt it.
Just a comment about their patented 'Microcell' foam plate technology.
PbA is about the last one to the game to utilize foam plates & Oasis simply may have been the first to apply it to PbA that they deserve a patent for it, perhaps they've added a slight twist to an old technique.
The steady increase in energy density of NiMH & NiCd all comes down to developing ways of increasing the surface area of the plates since volume for any given cell size is physically fixed.
NiCd's originally started with flat plates, then evolved to pocket plates, sintered plates, & finally foam plates at least 10 years ago.
All this is designed to increase the amount of surface area that electrons can cling to thereby increasing the number of Ah along with making it less resistance in how fast the electrons can be pulled out.
My own label for making plates more porous is fractalization, but I've never seen anyone else use the term so I hope I'm applying it correctly.
NiMH & any other battery technology benfits from these advances as they can typically applied directly without the need for any tailoring to the specific chemistry, the latest NiZn being offered for example will be using foam plates.
So what's more fractalized than foam?
Carpet or grass, more precisely, nano-grass which is the type of plate used in A123.
This is the key ingredient that distinguishes them from the rest of the generic LiFePO4 crowd & enable their cells to deliver such phenomenal performance.
Just as with foam plates, nano-grass is a plate structure that can be directly applied to just about any kind of chemistry battery & yield a similar bump in performance.
This is why I think we can expect to see all the old chemistries get a nano-tech makeover in the coming years, (patent disputes not withstanding) with Pb likely pulling up the rear once again.
Anyway, here's some firefly pr0n if you haven't checked it out already. (NSFW)
http://www.fireflyenergy.com/frfacts.htm
safe
1 GW
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The big difference is that they don't wear out as fast.PJD said:
Using graphite to isolate the lead they get four times the lifespan.
So the normal SLA gets 300 cycles. These get 1200 cycles....but the weight is the same.
If you want to actually be economical this makes them four times more economical than lead already is. It might make the expensive chemistries less necessary.
safe
1 GW
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A Bizzare Design Idea?
Well this is a little strange but here goes...
On other threads we've been talking about the RC motor and it's amazing efficiency and light weight. If you used a single Oasis battery (70 lbs) that has a 100 ah rating you could run that as such a low "C" rating that you actually start to legitimately extract the full energy out of the battery.
So the bike would consist of:
One 70lb 12V Oasis battery
One RC motor of essentially zero weight. (3000 rpm)
...my simulation on a spreadsheet gives:
34 mph top speed
56 mile range
...and that's not all that bad for a practical vehicle.
Well this is a little strange but here goes...
On other threads we've been talking about the RC motor and it's amazing efficiency and light weight. If you used a single Oasis battery (70 lbs) that has a 100 ah rating you could run that as such a low "C" rating that you actually start to legitimately extract the full energy out of the battery.
So the bike would consist of:
One 70lb 12V Oasis battery One RC motor of essentially zero weight. (3000 rpm)...my simulation on a spreadsheet gives:
34 mph top speed 56 mile range...and that's not all that bad for a practical vehicle.
My calculations show that you might get a range of 34 miles at 34 MPH. Their spec sheet says the designed load is 5 Amps. Nowhere does it say anything about 1200 cycles. You aren't going to get anywhere near the 800 cycles they mention if you pull 18X the designed load out of them.
As for practical, the only use I can see is on a motorcycle chassis or a trailer for an all day ride.
Show us the numbers you are using.
As for practical, the only use I can see is on a motorcycle chassis or a trailer for an all day ride.
Show us the numbers you are using.
safe
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gogo said:
I'm using a HC6320-250 RC motor on the motor side and then I'm "guessing" that the Peukerts Effect will be about 30% loss. Maybe that's being too optimistic? The controller is set to 50 amps, so that's a 0.5C configuration.
So:255 watt hours used per hour
840 total watt hours
...it really all comes down to the efficiency and the Peukert's Effect. The lower the "C" rate the less you lose.
If I increase the Peukert's Effect to 50% the range drops to 40 miles... which might be more realistic.
safe said:
yeah, & this time it's all mine.
Lets just say I'm not particularly flattered.Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
Actually the credit goes to Tyler (at least on ES) who started a thread about using a boost converter to step up the speed of a motor without having to lug so many batteries just to get the voltage but the idea precedes him as well.
Let's face it, the idea is rather self evident to anyone other than you.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=630
A Draganfly mated to a Firefly but you forgot to include in this unholy union the DC converter loss which at 100A+ would be considerable & expensive, or is it you plan on running the motor on 12V?
If you're discharging at the C rate you're back to where you started & it remains to be seen what effect a hi drain rate has on cycle life, so no free lunch, sorry.
And don't expect that these will sell for cheap, they will come with a performance premium attached to be sure, Cat isn't in it to cater to the tightwad safe's of the world.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
MSRP is supposed to be $400. Someone on the EV mailing list who is a trucker said the Firefly sent him an email saying these are shipping now in small quantities to OEM's. Plan to ramp up production end of the summer.
70 lbs for a 12 volt makes them pretty hard to justify for an ebike. Might be good in a Motorcycle.
MSRP is supposed to be $400. Someone on the EV mailing list who is a trucker said the Firefly sent him an email saying these are shipping now in small quantities to OEM's. Plan to ramp up production end of the summer.
70 lbs for a 12 volt makes them pretty hard to justify for an ebike. Might be good in a Motorcycle.
safe
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That's why I was thinking of the RC motor since it can take the 12 volts and still do something useful with it. Ideally the Oasis battery needs to come in sizes that ebikes can use like 12 ah or 18 ah. 100 ah is just too hard to manage for anyone that doesn't have a custom built frame.MitchJi said:
The "idea" of the Oasis battery is more exciting than the practical reality right now. :wink:
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
The Power Genix Nickel Zinc sounds promising:
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1465
They claim more energy per kg than NiMH and NiCad and cheaper. The cheaper is substantial because most of the "better battery" claims don't mention price.
http://www.powergenix.com/
The Power Genix Nickel Zinc sounds promising:
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1465
They claim more energy per kg than NiMH and NiCad and cheaper. The cheaper is substantial because most of the "better battery" claims don't mention price.
http://www.powergenix.com/
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