Ok to run a Q100 24V on 36V ?

M

manneokoko

1 W
Joined
Jul 28, 2012
Messages
63
Hello.

I currently have a Q100 36V, slow wind(201) 700CC. It is too slow for me, it gives only about 23 kmh.

So I am thinking of getting a Q100 24volt, and run it with the same 36V battery, and couple it with a new 450W controller (KU93).

My questions are:

1. Will the 24V Q100 be OK to run on 36 volt? I am light weight and will only be commuting on flat ground.

2. Is the battery powerfull enough, its this 38120 headway battery. The battery specification says it has maximium discharging current: 30A.

3. What actual speed increase can I expect?

Thank you!
/Manne
 
Oh, I found most of the answers when searching for hours :wink:

In another post d8veh reccomended this setup:
To summarise:
24v 201 rpm Q100 kit with LED display.
Ideally 12aH or more 36v battery.
Additional KU65 36v controller (maybe they'll swap the 24v one if you ask)
2 hidden wire brake sensors if you have cable brakes
Pair of torque arms (only need to fit one)
Click to expand...

Still would like to know if its the battery is powerful enough? And what about the speed, ill be using a 28".
 
Hi there!

You can put up to 48V into that Q100.

I recommend you 36V + KU 63 (5) controller( my setup for a long time) , that's enough to get a cool and decent ride. If you put more than 20 amps into the Q100 reliability would be a problem.

Have fun!
 
The 24v 201 rpm Q100 runs fine at 36v. I've run mine up to 50v (in a 20" wheel). You can't use the KU93 controller. The 22 amps it gives is too high for that little motor. Some have already tried it and experienced the inevitable melt-down. It's much better to use the KU65 or KU63 and solder about 1/3 of the shunt, which will give about 17 to 18 amps. You battery will be OK for that current.

In a 26" wheel, it'll spin to 25mph, but it still doesn't have a lot of power, so, depending on your weight and the wind, you can expect about 20mph on the flat and more down-hill.

You can save some money by buying just the 24v motor on its own (no wheel). It's fairly easy to open them up and swap the cores. The cases are the same.
 
That sounds a tad slow. Have you looked at the 3 position switch and the limiter? There are many variables, but generally you can expect 25kmh using a 26" wheel.
 
Thanks, it seems that there is no 3 speed switch connector on my controller. The controller is Con62 from greenbikekit. And the speed limiter is disconnected, so I guess it is just slow naturally.

I ordered some stuff from BMS battery and will have several options for increasing the speed:

24V Q100 @ 36V
36V Q100 @ 48V
24V Q100 @ 48V


Which do you think will be the best? A 24V motor on 48 Volt may wear out quickly?
So of the other two options which do you believe is the best?

Also, about using the KU63 with soldered shunt: what about the low voltage protection, can the battery be damaged if running it for too long?
 
A 10aH battery can normally give 18 amps without any problem. Obviously if your battery is worn out, it's not a good idea to ask even more from it. Those 8.8aH bottle batteries, struggle a bit at 15 amps, so, again, it's not a good idea to over-drive them.

You can easily predict the speed that the motor will spin. A 201 rpm one at nominal voltage (say 24v) will do 25kph. At 36v, the voltage is increased by 50%, so the speed will increase by the same amount, i.e. 37.5kph. A 36v 201 rpm one at 48v will therefore do 33 kph.

Batteries are always higher than their nominal voltages, so always add 10% to the speeds above. Also, you have 700c wheels, so you have to add another 12%.

These are the no-load speeds. You need enough torque to maintain the speeds into winds and up hills, which a small motor doesn't have, so you have to be careful about using too high a speed motor otherwise it'll run inefficiently and waste a lot of battery and get hot.

Before doing making any decisions, you shouls solder your shunt and report back your new speed. It should be about 30kph no-load.

From my experience, the best performance of the motor comes from a 201 rpm 36v one in a 26" wheel with 12S lipos at 48v and 18 amps. It also works well with a 24v 201 rpm one with 12s lipos and 18 amps in a 20" wheel.

You should only use the Q100 motor if you specifically want/need a light-weight solution, but light-weight also means low power. You can't have both.
 
Thank you for that throughout explanation.
I dont want a very powerful motor. I want it to be pretty fast, at least 20 mph. And i also wAnt a stealthy and usable bike, the battery should not be to heavy and it must be easy to disconnect to take inside every other day for charging. I also prefer to pedal along and doing some work in uphill. So the Q100 is perfect.
Actually i find that my 201 rpm 28" 36V Q100 i have now, from gbk, has almost more torque than i need. But its too slow. So i think theres no Idea in soldering the shunt on this one.

What about undervolt protection if running the ku63 on 48volt? Do I need to worry?

/thanks
 
Definitely go the 3 speed switch. Get the KU60 (350W), not the KU63 - if you can.
http://www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/electronics/ku63-motor-controller.html


My Q100 torque with ku60 pulls 480Watts unshunted. 3 speed switch adds about 20% top speed when fitted.
 
Samd said:
Definitely go the 3 speed switch. Get the KU60 (350W), not the KU63 - if you can.
http://www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/electronics/ku63-motor-controller.html


My Q100 torque with ku60 pulls 480Watts unshunted. 3 speed switch adds about 20% top speed when fitted.
Click to expand...
BMSBattery don't list the KU60 any more, but I'm sure that in the description, it said that it wasn't compatible with the Q100. Maybe it's the 328 rpm one that it can't handle because of the commutation speed.
 
manneokoko said:
Thank you for that throughout explanation.
I dont want a very powerful motor. I want it to be pretty fast, at least 20 mph. And i also wAnt a stealthy and usable bike, the battery should not be to heavy and it must be easy to disconnect to take inside every other day for charging. I also prefer to pedal along and doing some work in uphill. So the Q100 is perfect.
Actually i find that my 201 rpm 28" 36V Q100 i have now, from gbk, has almost more torque than i need. But its too slow. So i think theres no Idea in soldering the shunt on this one.

What about undervolt protection if running the ku63 on 48volt? Do I need to worry?

/thanks
Click to expand...
The problem with these small motors is finding one that does the correct speed. The 201 rpm ones do 15mph and the 328rpm ones are too fast for their power.They're meant for small wheels. Bafang do 250rpm versions of the SWX series motors, which are much better for 20mph. The only other option is to over-volt.

The battery BMS should look after LVC, but it's not guaranteed. You can add an extra resistor in parallel to the one in the controllers voltage divider that senses battery voltage to shift the LVC point. It sounds complicated, but is dead simple to do - just solder in one resistor. The new KU123 already has the resistor in place. It uses a jumper connector to bring it into the circuit when required. I think I'd go on the side of safety and solder in the resistor rather than rely on the BMS.
 
I've run the Q100 201rpm on a ku93 at 10s lipo (38v) for the last year with no issues whatsoever.
 
Eujangles said:
I've run the Q100 201rpm on a ku93 at 10s lipo (38v) for the last year with no issues whatsoever.
Click to expand...
That's interesting. Other people tried it and didn't get past 5 miles. Do you have hills to go up?
 
Yup. I'm in Vancouver and the whole city is pretty much built on a big hill. There are 2 extremely steep hills in town that I tend to avoid, just in case, but I have hauled up pretty much every other steep hill climb in the city multiple times with no problems. I definitely crank out watts the old fashioned way, and pedal like hell up hills to reduce the load on the motor though, so that could be how I've been getting away with it. Motor is never hot after use, but I guess the bigger concern is probably busting the internal gears (though heat would probably be a big indicator if I were in danger of having that happen). So far so good though!
 
Not sure if this thread has died out or not, but just an update on my setup as it pertains to the thread:

I've recently added a 2s lipo pack in series with my big 10s, so I am coming in at almost 50v hot off the charger. I am a bit worried about the internal gears of the Q100 running on the KU93 at 22 amps, so I bought a 3-speed switch. Truthfully, it doesn't seem to really make a difference unless I am already at speed, but I keep it in the slowest speed for starts and hills anyways.

Done 3 big(ish) rides with lots of hills, and so far the motor seems to be handling things just fine. I will post an update if I shred the motor, and then we will all know where to draw the line on the Q100's :)

Cheers
 
Hello.
I finally finished this build, a 24V Q100 running on 36V.
I soldered the shunt on my Con63 ( from GBK). When I opened it i saw that it is not the same as KU65 from BMS battery. The Con63 was also a bit soldered from factory. So I just added a bit of solder to one leg of the shunt.

The torque is now just right for me, I have to pedal along to get full speed or good acceleration, I want a fast bicycle, not a motorbike.

I have a few questions for the experts :)

I noticed that the controller now gets pretty hot. It is still OK to touch without burning, but i guess it will be worse when riding uphill.
Now when overvolting (using 24V motor instead of 36V to same 36V battery) i get a lower torque but higher speed. I read somewhere that giving too few amps will not save battery, on the contrary it will make it use more battery .. what do you think of that, is it true? I like to have low torque, but do you think I will actually save battery by adding more solder to the shunt to increase torque?
 
manneokoko said:
Hello.
I finally finished this build, a 24V Q100 running on 36V.
I soldered the shunt on my Con63 ( from GBK). When I opened it i saw that it is not the same as KU65 from BMS battery. The Con63 was also a bit soldered from factory. So I just added a bit of solder to one leg of the shunt.

The torque is now just right for me, I have to pedal along to get full speed or good acceleration, I want a fast bicycle, not a motorbike.

I have a few questions for the experts :)

I noticed that the controller now gets pretty hot. It is still OK to touch without burning, but i guess it will be worse when riding uphill.
Now when overvolting (using 24V motor instead of 36V to same 36V battery) i get a lower torque but higher speed. I read somewhere that giving too few amps will not save battery, on the contrary it will make it use more battery .. what do you think of that, is it true? I like to have low torque, but do you think I will actually save battery by adding more solder to the shunt to increase torque?
Click to expand...

Yeah I think you would, but not much. Try playing around with amp values on ebikes.ca's simulator and see what it does to range/speed. From what I recall using the simulator, increasing your amperage will do the following: slightly increase your top speed, increase your torque, slightly increase your battery consumption. Lowering the amps should do the opposite in all those categories, but I know that many motors struggle a bit at lower speeds, so it's certainly possible that if you lower the amps too much you will cost yourself some efficiency and thus gain no extra battery life. BTW, the Q100 is listed in BMS battery under both the 24v and 36v categories; it is not overvolted at 36v, that's what it's supposed to do. I run mine at 22A 48V with no issues.

Cheers
 
About overvolting, there are different versions of q100 at BMS battery. One is suposed to be used in 24V and the other at 36V.
I first used a 36V version and now i got a new Q100 motor that is listed as 24V. I used the same 36V battery on both. So that is overvolting, using a higher voltage than the manufacturer recomends. Top Speed has increased from 25kmh to 38kmh. Overvolting 50% gave exactly 50% increase in speed.
 
Hi all,
I am trying to it on my 16" brompton.

My setup is q100 24v 328rpm running 36v 12Ah lifepo4

Would that be ok?

Pat
 
cwah said:
Voltage is a little low on a brompton. You may only get 15mph max speed at that voltage
Click to expand...

I am using 36v 340rpm fast wind motor and the top speed is 16mph on brompton.

Overvolting 24v q100 328rpm I believe I will get a higher top speed 20mph

Am I correct?
Pat
 
manneokoko said:
About overvolting, there are different versions of q100 at BMS battery. One is suposed to be used in 24V and the other at 36V.
I first used a 36V version and now i got a new Q100 motor that is listed as 24V. I used the same 36V battery on both. So that is overvolting, using a higher voltage than the manufacturer recomends. Top Speed has increased from 25kmh to 38kmh. Overvolting 50% gave exactly 50% increase in speed.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure 999zip999 is right that its just the same motor but listed at 2 different voltages. That happens pretty often so they can try to market the same product to different consumers.

Cheers
 
patpatbut said:
cwah said:
Voltage is a little low on a brompton. You may only get 15mph max speed at that voltage
Click to expand...

I am using 36v 340rpm fast wind motor and the top speed is 16mph on brompton.

Overvolting 24v q100 328rpm I believe I will get a higher top speed 20mph

Am I correct?
Pat
Click to expand...

Yes that sounds about right, but don't be surprised if it's actually a little less than that. ebikes.ca has fairly recently added the Q100 328 RPM to it's simulator, try plugging in your numbers and see what you get.

Also depends which controller you are using (how many amps).

Cheers
 
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