Old full suspension 26'' mtb vs modern hardtail 29er?

[rudivb]

Hey!

I am planning to start a new project as I have a 2nd BBSHD laying around that needs some revision but should run fine.
Kinda fell in love with some "oldscool" full suspension bikes and I've already acquired an L/XL frame for my project.
The bike I am talking about is an old Lapierre x-control:


Sourcing parts and trying to "modernize" this bike is gonna cost me a decent amount of time and money.
And I think at the end of the project for the money I could've probably bought a modern entry level hardtail 29er.

So I am not sure what to do now, I can still turn around and sell this frame, or should I continue this project?

In terms of riding, I am not a mtb'r, but plan to do some beginner stuff and just enjoy nature, I have my rigid frame "workhorse" for everything else, this would just be a secondary "fun" bike.


My heart says continue this project and make something "unique/special" of it, but my brain says buy a modern 29er and be done with it.

What do you guys think?

 

[rafalg]

depends on availability of the parts. This old bike looks nice, but if you have to buy front and rear shock absorber, wheels, whole drivetrain, then it may cost a little fortune. It's cheaper just to look for a deal on a new bike (or buy another used 26' mtb as the parts donor)

 

[scianiac]

What parts do you need to really modernize, the only ones things I would do would be a shorter stem and longer bars assuming the frame size vs your height works for that. And both of those are quite cheap considering you can find them used easily. The BB will be replaced entirely by the BBSHD, maybe a clutched derailleur but you don't really need that for what you describe. Maybe the suspension could use a rebuild but if they feel OK you could put that off too. The only other upgrade I would do is a dropper but that also depends on how you are going to use it, if you aren't going to be pedaling a lot or doing blue and black trails you can just leave the seat in the middle. For what you describe I would rather have full suspension rather than the modern 29er hardtail. Honestly 29ers have their uses but they aren't all sunshine and roses, like sure they roll faster but you've got a BBSHD so that doesn't matter, then the larger wheels require a lot more gearing down so issues off trying to fit a small enough chainring on the BBSHD may be a thing.

 

[rudivb]

depends on availability of the parts. This old bike looks nice, but if you have to buy front and rear shock absorber, wheels, whole drivetrain, then it may cost a little fortune. It's cheaper just to look for a deal on a new bike (or buy another used 26' mtb as the parts donor)

Yes I was exactly planning to buy a donor bike. I am located in France so these kinda "Lapierre" bikes are still regularly on secondhand websites. I just bought the XL frame as I couldn't find many of these bikes in XL. The frame came with a rear shock, so I'll use that together with the donor bike fork and other components.

This was a pretty high level bike back in the day, so usually the components are good brand components like fox/rockshox for the suspension.

What parts do you need to really modernize, the only ones things I would do would be a shorter stem and longer bars assuming the frame size vs your height works for that. And both of those are quite cheap considering you can find them used easily. The BB will be replaced entirely by the BBSHD, maybe a clutched derailleur but you don't really need that for what you describe. Maybe the suspension could use a rebuild but if they feel OK you could put that off too. The only other upgrade I would do is a dropper but that also depends on how you are going to use it, if you aren't going to be pedaling a lot or doing blue and black trails you can just leave the seat in the middle. For what you describe I would rather have full suspension rather than the modern 29er hardtail. Honestly 29ers have their uses but they aren't all sunshine and roses, like sure they roll faster but you've got a BBSHD so that doesn't matter, then the larger wheels require a lot more gearing down so issues off trying to fit a small enough chainring on the BBSHD may be a thing.

Yes I was thinking wider bar and short stem indeed, if it can fit I might try 27.5 wheels or otherwise maybe only upfront a 27.5 (mullet style), to create a slacker angle.

I'm planning to buy a donor bike from the same brand and hopefully the exact model, so I can just swap over most of the components, because these bikes use pretty high level components (although outdated).

And after that I can look into (if I need) more upgrades like, 4 pot brakes and better suspension.

 

[docw009]

A lot of rear suspension bikes don't have room for a downtube battery. This one appears to fit one, so that is one advantage,

 

[rudivb]

A lot of rear suspension bikes don't have room for a downtube battery. This one appears to fit one, so that is one advantage,

Yep, that is one of the reasons I chose this model (besides that it looks kinda awesome oldscoolish).
All the new full suspension bikes have that fancy geometry and would never fit batteries.

A hailong MAX battery fits easily and I even managed a way to fit my triangle 52v37.7ah battery, it was a tight fit at first and the subframe/swingarm would hit the battery when the suspension bottoms out, but I just found out that turning my triangle battery upside down makes it fit perfectly with enough room for the suspension!

 

[neptronix]

That's a perfect frame for an ebike due to the large triangle.

If you are using a hub motor, 26" wheels will be a benefit. The smaller the wheel, the more power you can get out of a DD hub. 26" can go down to a 24" rear and increase the power further without the pedals smacking the ground.

 

[MorbidlyObeseKoala]

+1 vote for the old frame. There's a lot of affordable knockoff components for the older frames on Amazon and Ali including shocks and drive train if you need to replace things altogether. Also if you aren't doing challenging black diamond trails, your MTB parts can probably handle the lighter abuse on the mellower adventures IMO

 

[rudivb]

That's a perfect frame for an ebike due to the large triangle.

If you are using a hub motor, 26" wheels will be a benefit. The smaller the wheel, the more power you can get out of a DD hub. 26" can go down to a 24" rear and increase the power further without the pedals smacking the ground.

+1 vote for the old frame. There's a lot of affordable knockoff components for the older frames on Amazon and Ali including shocks and drive train if you need to replace things altogether. Also if you aren't doing challenging black diamond trails, your MTB parts can probably handle the lighter abuse on the mellower adventures IMO

Thanks everyone for giving me the confidence to go on with this project! Gonna make something awesome from this.

I'm using a middrive BBSHD, I actually thought trying larger wheels 27.5 or only front 27.5 to create a slacker angle.
Apparently in the mtb world bigger is always better? lol, maybe not so much in the ebike world, will first see how those 26ers go, maybe it's just fine as it is.

Yeah I'm always looking at aliexpress, my other bike has a pretty cheap drive-train that runs great Shimano HG200 8s(from ali), KMCe8, 52t chainwheel (ali) and altus derailleur, easily does 5000+km before I replace the chain and cassette.

Was wondering about those Bolany forks etc. hear a lot of different stories, but I would guess for beginner level MTBing it should be fine?

 

[neptronix]

I got a slacker angle on my hardtail by using a 24" rear and a slightly taller than stock front fork.

I would spend $200 USD on a front fork at a bare minimum. Get an entry level air fork from suntour or rockshox. An entry level air fork will massively improve ride quality versus a cheap spring suspension.

 

[2old]

The only consideration that may make this project go/no go is whether the BBSHD can be accommodated in the frame without contacting the suspension arm or the chainstays. I was able to wedge a BBS02 in my old Trek FS bike. A 52V, 8ah battery is mounted on a Blackburn cage on the downtube.

 

[rudivb]

I got a slacker angle on my hardtail by using a 24" rear and a slightly taller than stock front fork.

I would spend $200 USD on a front fork at a bare minimum. Get an entry level air fork from suntour or rockshox. An entry level air fork will massively improve ride quality versus a cheap spring suspension.

Was hoping to find a "donor" bike with a decent fork and if it isn't adequate upgrade along the way.

Found this bike, it's a bit expensive at 300 euro (he was asking 350) but in pristine condition:
(I am not an expert on forks, so I don't know if this is good?)
Edit: Could do a bit of searching, looks like this fork is an old coil fork...

 

[rudivb]

The only consideration that may make this project go/no go is whether the BBSHD can be accommodated in the frame without contacting the suspension arm or the chainstays. I was able to wedge a BBS02 in my old Trek FS bike. A 52V, 8ah battery is mounted on a Blackburn cage on the downtube.

Did a quick dry run and I seem to have plenty clearance, only con it's angled a bit downwards.

 

[MorbidlyObeseKoala]

I don't know your skills riding offroad or the trails you are looking to try out, but that looks like a perfectly capable bike with a brand name Marzocchi fork which used to be pretty highly regarded in its time. I still see 26in wheels on trails by me. The bigger wheels do help a little with tracking a straighter line over chunkier rocks/roots/bumps but so does full suspension vs hardtail.

Can't wait to see the results from the first ride

 

[neptronix]

Was hoping to find a "donor" bike with a decent fork and if it isn't adequate upgrade along the way.

Found this bike, it's a bit expensive at 300 euro (he was asking 350) but in pristine condition:
(I am not an expert on forks, so I don't know if this is good?)
Edit: Could do a bit of searching, looks like this fork is an old coil fork...
View attachment 353765

I'd buy it! I'd put a smaller wheel in back though so you can have more of a slack angle on the front for better handling during high speeds.

Or you could get a taller fork to achieve the same.

Notice the more slack angle on downhill bikes which helps with high speeds:

 

[99t4]

To answer your title question "Old full suspension 26'' mtb vs modern hardtail 29er?"

I have had both and ridden both extensively. FS 26" DH bike wins hands down over hardtail 29er in all aspects except for rear rack carrying capacity.

Sourcing parts and trying to "modernize" this bike is gonna cost me a decent amount of time and money.

What do you feel you need to "modernize" right away and why? Why set yourself up for higher costs and work that may not be necessary? Why not convert it and then identify what needs upgraded?

 

[rudivb]

I'd buy it! I'd put a smaller wheel in back though so you can have more of a slack angle on the front for better handling during high speeds.

Or you could get a taller fork to achieve the same.

Notice the more slack angle on downhill bikes which helps with high speeds:

Yeah I think I'm gonna go for that bike, I asked him and the fork is an air fork.
It was advertised as size M, but after asking that bike is a size L, so I'm gonna see, how much of a difference the frames are, might not even have to swap frames.

Yes I was thinking more slack is better, especially on these old bikes they are very steep compared to modern bikes.

 

[rudivb]

What do you feel you need to "modernize" right away and why? Why set yourself up for higher costs and work that may not be necessary? Why not convert it and then identify what needs upgraded?

Yeah you're right, better convert it first and see what I need to change after, but I was thinking about things like wider bars, and a slacker angle.

 

[Chalo]

Yeah you're right, better convert it first and see what I need to change after, but I was thinking about things like wider bars, and a slacker angle.

Wider bars are not an advantage, only a goofy fashion at the moment. Fashionably slack head angle is good for e-bike speeds, but fashionably steep seat angle is garbage.

 

[rudivb]

Wider bars are not an advantage, only a goofy fashion at the moment. Fashionably slack head angle is good for e-bike speeds, but fashionably steep seat angle is garbage.

I know it's a bit of a hype atm, but I have pretty wide bars on my "workhorse" bicycle and it just feels better for my shoulders and overall fit, also seems more stable at higher speeds. That being said I am tall with long limbs, probably a different story for short riders.

 

[scianiac]

The one thing that I would recommend since you may have a choice of size is you want an older bike that is at least a size larger than what you would ride for a modern bike, for instance I buy size medium 2010s era bikes and they are shorter than a modern size small that would fit me. I like them a little shorter than modern bikes for how and where I ride but an older small would be tiny.

And I wouldn't worry too much about making it super slack like a modern bike, there are tradeoffs there as well. Partly why modern bikes are super slack is because they are trying to sell them based on how "capable" they are which is true in many cases, a modern super slack trail or enduro bike can ride super tech, super rough, super fast, terrain way better and in fact way better than almost everybody that will buy one can ride or will ride. And while having a bike that is way better than your skills had advantages in some ways it also means you end up with a bike that is optimized for things you'll probably never do at the expense of being good at things you will do. Making it a little more slack, sure, but unless you are riding way more technical terrain than you let on you probably won't notice and it could make it too slack where it feels numb and unresponsive at the lower speeds you'll be at though rough sections.

The wider bars and shorter stem (assuming the bike is long enough to fit a shorter stem) though are totally worth it regardless. This assumes the bars are real narrow like many of these older bikes where, unless you are real tall you don't want crazy 720mm bars, just ones that are a bit wider and appropriate for your body shape, wider is not better, correct length for good leverage and range of motion is better. And again dropper depending if you don't want to just leave the seat low or manually lower it.

 

[neptronix]

Yes I was thinking more slack is better, especially on these old bikes they are very steep compared to modern bikes.

Yes. Some companies sell headset spacers just to add 0.5-1 degrees rake. But there's a lot of ways to achieve that.

 

[rudivb]

The one thing that I would recommend since you may have a choice of size is you want an older bike that is at least a size larger than what you would ride for a modern bike, for instance I buy size medium 2010s era bikes and they are shorter than a modern size small that would fit me. I like them a little shorter than modern bikes for how and where I ride but an older small would be tiny.

The wider bars and shorter stem (assuming the bike is long enough to fit a shorter stem) though are totally worth it regardless. This assumes the bars are real narrow like many of these older bikes where, unless you are real tall you don't want crazy 720mm bars, just ones that are a bit wider and appropriate for your body shape, wider is not better, correct length for good leverage and range of motion is better. And again dropper depending if you don't want to just leave the seat low or manually lower it.

Thanks for the pointers.

At 193.5cm(6"4) I am pretty tall indeed, basically always looking for the largest size bike. That's why I bought this frame in size XL straight away when I found it, because I often come across these type of bikes, but not my size. Even the XL frame looks on the "smaller" side indeed, but it's hard to judge with only the frame.

Even on my "city" BBSHD bike I'm running I think 720mm bars and it feels so much better than the narrow bars it came with, but I have long arms, only con is filtering through traffic and narrow spots.

 

[Chalo]

I know it's a bit of a hype atm, but I have pretty wide bars on my "workhorse" bicycle and it just feels better for my shoulders and overall fit, also seems more stable at higher speeds. That being said I am tall with long limbs, probably a different story for short riders.

When I was young and spending long days on the bike, and 21-speed MTBs were the flavor of the month, my 70cm BMX bars were regarded as freakish. (I was 6'9" tall at that time.). Folks were getting MTBs with 60cm bars and then chopping 3cm or more off each end. Fast forward 35 years and I'm still using 70cm bars, which are now oddly narrow compared to the ones fitted to 5 foot posers' bikes.

 

[rudivb]

Another "modernization" feature I forgot was going tubeless. I have no experience with tubeless, but would like to know what it's all about. I think it's mainly to run lower pressure for a smoother ride?

Anyway worthed the effort? Can these older rims easily be converted to tubeless?