One Cat Just Leads to Another.

[Zoot Katz]

It's not entirely fair to say EBII out-performs le Béte.
The battery pack for the Crystalyte is sick. Its sucking sound came back after ~65 cycles. It hasn't been delivering the same amount of energy as it did in the first 40 cycles.

I'll have to do more regulated testing for a decent comparison.

It will be a month before I meet up with the Tidal Force guy again. Maybe I'll hook up the hopefully repaired 18Ah NiMh pack in parallel so I can draw all those amps of which the controller is capable. He's a larger fellow but I don't remember which model TF 750 he has.
Anyway, I'll be able to eat his lunch if I can spin out the big gear.

The 9C is louder than the X5 but I don't know how to describe it. It makes a kind of rattling noise before settling into its soft whine.
At that point it seems quieter than a Bionx whereas the X5 is definitely less audible.

The pot mod to the CA is interesting. I guess it could act as an "economy" switch.
The twenty amps are plenty for most of my riding . . . but more is good too.

For the next little while I'm just going to dabble at upgrading and making improvements to EBII. le Béte needs upgrading and servicing while I think about and get some experience to improve the battery mounting on EBII.

 

[bombmom]

How big is that battery? I don't see any measurements on the ebike.ca site.

 

[Zoot Katz]

It won't squeeze into their large frame bags. The battery fits but not the BMS.

The background grid in the picture has 5 cm (2") squares.

 

[jag]

It won't squeeze into their large frame bags. The battery fits but not the BMS.

The background grid in the picture has 5 cm (2") squares.

Thanks for the dimensions. ebikes website says 15S, but your picture looks like it has more cells. Any id markings on cells or BMS?

 

[Zoot Katz]

It won't squeeze into their large frame bags. The battery fits but not the BMS.

The background grid in the picture has 5 cm (2") squares.

Thanks for the dimensions. ebikes website says 15S, but your picture looks like it has more cells. Any id markings on cells or BMS?

Thirty cells total, 15S, 2P.

There's not much visible under the shrink wrap.
That's partially cut away by ebikes.ca so that the connector for the BMS can be unplugged and individual cells tested.

Discussing with Justin the fact that the 48V packs don't fit in the frame bags he sells, I suggested moving the BMS to a side pocket.
Cable's are too short says he, but he offered me a supply frame bags to experiment with if I came up with an elegant hack for the sack.
I passed. Duct tape was the only solution I could figure.

 

[dnmun]

are you certain it is 15S if he has it labeled as 48V?

 

[Zoot Katz]

are you certain it is 15S if he has it labeled as 48V?

Yep, Justin explained why that is but I forget exactly what are the individual cells voltages.
He said 48V packs usually have 32 cells. These have thirty. (15S, 2P)

The pack reads ~51.4 volts right off the charger and soon settles to around 50.6V.
Mines not gotten below 49 volts resting. I'm going easy on the break in cycles.

 

[voicecoils]

are you certain it is 15S if he has it labeled as 48V?

The packs have conventional lifepo4 cells (3.2v nominal). He's gone with 15S2P to reduce the likelihood of blowing up 48v controllers IIRC.

I'm enjoying your build Zoot Katz, carry on

 

[Zoot Katz]

are you certain it is 15S if he has it labeled as 48V?

The packs have conventional lifepo4 cells (3.2v nominal). He's gone with 15S2P to reduce the likelihood of blowing up 48v controllers IIRC.

yeah, that rings a bell.

I'm enjoying your build Zoot Katz, carry on

I'm enjoying the snot out of it!
Just 125 km on the odometer but it's got a lot going for it.

That it can be picked up with one hand makes me happy.
That the pedals are still able to contribute something at higher speeds is nice.

I've not quite yet figured out how my additional torque can be best used on the nasty pitches.
Letting off the throttle to drop down to the small chain ring is something I'm going to have to practice.
Missed shifts aren't cool on a climb. I blew one today and had to turn around to start over because I didn't trust the controller to not blow under the load of starting on that grade.

The battery location makes locking the bike more complicated. That's something else I'll have to practice.

What I'm liking best, for now, is the more aerodynamic riding position and lighter weight.
Riding downhill on the big chain ring with the throttle off is still good exercise.

 

[e-cannon]

The battery location makes locking the bike more complicated. That's something else I'll have to practice.

same problem here...
I'm enjoying your build too, can't wait for an improved battery mount. And don't be awed...

 

[Zoot Katz]

The battery location makes locking the bike more complicated. That's something else I'll have to practice.

same problem here...
I'm enjoying your build too, can't wait for an improved battery mount. And don't be awed...

Thank you.
Today I used a chain (3.1 Kg) through the front wheel, main triangle and rack.
The U-lock (1.6 Kg) went around the rim through the rear triangle.
The Abus Bordo might work for the front wheel but I'd have to give up my frame pump to attach the holster on the only bottle mount left accessible.

Not sure that I'll be laying-up a composite box right away. It's going to take some experimenting. I'll probably try doing it in two pieces.
Planning access to fuses and charging port, maybe build in a kill switch and DC-DC converter, is about as sophisticated as I dare.

 

[JennyB]

The battery location makes locking the bike more complicated. That's something else I'll have to practice.

same problem here...
I'm enjoying your build too, can't wait for an improved battery mount. And don't be awed...

Thank you.
Today I used a chain (3.1 Kg) through the front wheel, main triangle and rack.
The U-lock (1.6 Kg) went around the rim through the rear triangle.
The Abus Bordo might work for the front wheel but I'd have to give up my frame pump to attach the holster on the only bottle mount left accessible.

I was thinking a front pannier mount for the battery would go well with the 'old school tourist' vibe. It would give you back your pump and let you see which chainring you were on.

 

[Zoot Katz]

Today I used a chain (3.1 Kg) through the front wheel, main triangle and rack.
The U-lock (1.6 Kg) went around the rim through the rear triangle.
The Abus Bordo might work for the front wheel but I'd have to give up my frame pump to attach the holster on the only bottle mount left accessible.

I was thinking a front pannier mount for the battery would go well with the 'old school tourist' vibe. It would give you back your pump and let you see which chainring you were on.

The weight feels well distributed now.

Pump pegs under the down tube are a possibility. It fouls the front mech cable mounted behind the seat tube
Then the bottle mounts on the seat tube could then be used for the lock holster.
The Abus Bordo fits through the main triangle, front wheel and bike rack.
Its holster comes with skookum velcro straps so it can me mounted anywhere but the bottle mounting looks cleanest
It's lighter and handier than carrying the chain.

hmmm, how about a porteur rack and bars?

. . . oh yeah, the stinking Vee-brake levers probably wouldn't work.

I'm also afraid the batteries weight on the fork would make it too floppy to park on a side stand.
As it is, the side stand is floppy. Add a rear pannier on that side and the stand gets too touchy to trust.
A nice two-legged steel center stand won't clear the chain on the big ring.
Adding a large enough spacer to provide clearance will probably make sparks in the corners.

There's now a whole 78 miles (130km) on the bike.
Those will increase rapidly as le Béte endures the best intentions of my cobbler's ministrations. (I probed its battery today and found no clues.)
The 9C motor has noticeably less cogging effect than the X5.
The bike is nice to pedal but gear shifting is still a double-think and I almost had a "clipless-moment" today.

 

[JennyB]

The weight feels well distributed now.

if it ain't broke... :wink:

Pump pegs under the down tube are a possibility. It fouls the front mech cable mounted behind the seat tube
Then the bottle mounts on the seat tube could then be used for the lock holster.
The Abus Bordo fits through the main triangle, front wheel and bike rack.
Its holster comes with skookum velcro straps so it can me mounted anywhere but the bottle mounting looks cleanest
It's lighter and handier than carrying the chain.

That looks like a good solution.

I'm also afraid the batteries weight on the fork would make it too floppy to park on a side stand.
As it is, the side stand is floppy. Add a rear pannier on that side and the stand gets too touchy to trust.
A nice two-legged steel center stand won't clear the chain on the big ring.
Adding a large enough spacer to provide clearance will probably make sparks in the corners.

Have you tried the old trick of locking the front brake on when you park?

 

[julesa]

A nice two-legged steel center stand won't clear the chain on the big ring.
Adding a large enough spacer to provide clearance will probably make sparks in the corners.

I had the same problem, and uesd a grinder to put an angle on the spacer so the stand's legs don't come up quite so far in the up position, now it's just barely low enough to clear the chain.

 

[Zoot Katz]

A nice two-legged steel center stand won't clear the chain on the big ring.
Adding a large enough spacer to provide clearance will probably make sparks in the corners.

I had the same problem, and uesd a grinder to put an angle on the spacer so the stand's legs don't come up quite so far in the up position, now it's just barely low enough to clear the chain.

Oh yeah, I see how that could work.
Otherwise the spacer would have to be about two inches (50 cm) for the the legs to be below the chain.
Thanks. It's worth a try because the side stand ain't gonna cut it.
I'd be better off with no stand than a floppy one.

 

[Zoot Katz]

The bike's been on the road everyday for the past two weeks.
The width of the aluminium battery bag strap holder thing was cut down a full inch and the buckles changed out for velcro strap.
It works, sorta but I'm not satisfied. Basically, it sux but will continue working until I devise something better.

The stash turns up 3/8" HDPE sheet, a 30" X 30" X 3/32" aluminium road sign, some glass cloth and about twenty pounds of balsa. (among other stuff.) I'm keeping my eye out for pink foam scraps.

Epoxy's gonna be about 75 bux. The cutting boards and road sign are my cheapest first option next to duct tape and coroplast.

It was fun hounding a pair of roadies today. I wasn't drafting them but, try as they might, they just couldn't drop the old fart on climbs.
They never got a good look at the bike except its fat tires. The 9C is pretty quiet so they were probably wondering WTF?

After 246 km the bike still needs a saddle but it got front and rear LED lights from ebikes.ca today.

Oh goody, now I have a reason to open the controller for a peek inside!

 

[Zoot Katz]

Today I opened the controller and brought out power for the LED lights.
Then I started looking for the thermal paste so I could put it back together. There were a few packets laying around here but I used them or lost them.
There was also a time when I had three geeky neighbours where I might have been able to borrow a swab's worth.
Now I can't put the controller back together until Monday after I've gotten a fresh supply.
argggh!

Oh well, I'll use the down time to investigate the clunking crank and fart around at making a battery box.

 

[Zoot Katz]

Lots of room for air circulation, padding, mounting hardware, DC-DC convertor, charging plug, kill switch, fuse access, drainage. . .
and improvement

 

[e-cannon]

looks great! waiting for more pics and mounting.

 

[Vim]

That looks great! Details? What's it made out of, and how does it open?

 

[Zoot Katz]

Thanks for the compliments but it really is quite an ugly battery box.
Wrinkles, drips and blisters, yuck.
No excuses. I just didn't know what I was doing. The next one should turn out better.

Here's the box and form split. The top part is the lid. View attachment 2

The lid fits into the lip formed by the layers of masking tape.

The box is only two layers of glass cloth, except the lip which is 4 layers thick.
I added another layer of cloth inside the sides of the box.
The perimeter will get built up as the hardware bits are added.

 

[Vim]

Should look really nice after sanded down and painted!

 

[Zoot Katz]

Well, I've built up enough glass and resin inside the box that I could grind through the ugliest places and use filler but I'm only planning to cover it in MacTac to match the rest of the bike.

A few details presented themselves during construction that could be worked to an advantage on a second attempt.
If it comes out good enough to paint, then I'll have to strip the bike for painting to match it.
I've got foam and resin so I'd just need more glass cloth for the next one.

We'll see how this one works first. Its shape may need to be altered.
I'll take it for a dummy run before I start mounting switches and stuff.

 

[Zoot Katz]

Progress on the battery box has been intermittent but fruitful.
It's given me experience with the medium and lots of ideas for the MKII version.

I've got the lid mounted and the box attached to the bike. . . temporarily.
The box still needs to be wired for a kill switch and charging port.
Fuse access will ideally be easily incorporated and ventilation added.
I want to use connectors inside the box so the battery and controller can be "unplugged" from the box with its present connectors intact.
For improved ventilation I'm thinking about suspending the battery inside the box with Velcro attached to the sides so they're holding the battery in compression and the perimeter of the triangular pack has air flow instead of insulation.

The battery inside the box right now is borrowed from le Béte. The battery for EBII has yet to be purchased and I've not even ordered the kill switch.
I'm seriously considering this one because of its simple push-off function.
Mounted in the upper front corner of the box's right side it's an easy reach with a disengaged throttle handle hand.





With the weight of the battery in the main triangle the bike is still rear biased but it will rest on the front wheel when parked on the center stand.