overvolting a 36v Q100

[suddenurge]

Hi,

I am new to the forum and since two months I am also a first time ebike owner looking for some help. I have ordered a 48v battery to increase the speed on my ebike which is currently running a 36v q100 350w 201rpm in a 26 inch rear tyre. Having read some of the posts on this topic, I understand that the controller is the key to avoid burning the motor. If someone knowledgeable could comment on the following solutions, I would be very grateful.

I should mention that it is pretty flat where I live, although it is very windy. I am constantly giving the motor full throttle and I also pedal vigorously using a 52-11 teeth setup to achieve maximum speed. I rarely drop below 17 mph even when climbing hills. Average speed is about 18.5-22 mph depending on how the wind blows.

1. I have opened my current controller on one side to take peek inside and I can distinguish 63v on one of the can shaped things.

Am I right to assume that this must be one of the capacitors? Could there be anything else stamped with 63v than the capacitors? The reason I am asking is that this can shaped thing is lying down instead of standing up as I have seen in pictures of capcitors in controllers.

Since I am currently running a 36v battery with this controller, do I need to worry about the max current of the controller also? Could i determine the max current if I properly opened up the controller and looked at the transistors?

2. I have also considered buying the s-lcd-3 +s12sh (800w 35a) combination and set the controller to halve the current giving me 17,5 amps of max output. Has anyone confirmed that the controller actually succeeds in limiting the current output as advertised? Otherwise I would probably burn the motor pretty quickly.

3. I also understand that you could buy the KU93 or ku123 controllers and file down one of the shunts to decrease max current. I don't see myself doing any soldering on the remaining shunt. Which one would you recommend?

4. Lastly, I have found this 350w 17a 36v/48V compatible controller on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-Controller-For-E-bike-Scooter-with-without-Hall-Sensor-36V-48V-350W-/321867901730?hash=item4af0d26b22:g:08gAAOSwKIpV-i4J

The seller has no knowledge on how many mosfets it contains. Do you think this could be a viable option or is it just cheap junk?

I know this is a very long first post, but I did not want to leave anything out. Again, I would really appreciate comments and pros/cons of the different solutions. Other possible solutions are also greatly appreciated.

 

[Ykick]

I’ve been running Q100C 328 RPM in 20” wheel on 16S RC Lipo (59-67V) for over a year. BUT, I’ve been using a programmable Lyen controller to reduce max speed RPM to about 80% of what it could reach on that voltage.

I also don’t push it more than 10-12A but it performs great at these power levels.

RPM doesn’t seem to be a longevity issue and I’m going fast enough (25-28MPH) for 20” wheels on folding bike.

 

[slowhands]

Without having the controller open in front of me, I can't know if it would run well on 48v, but if you found capacitors rated at 63V, most likely it can. Your motor can handle it, but maybe your control panel or voltage indicators will be incompatible. I would not use them. Try the controller and motor and throttle to see how it goes. You might kill the controller, but then you would have had to buy a 48v one anyway, and used controllers aren't worth spit on resale. I have no idea what its current limit is, possibly already 17A, very common. The Q100 motor does well on 48v, especially the 201RPM version. Watch for over-heating on long uphills though.

The makers of these controllers use just a few basic designs, and move jumpers or populate components differently to accommodate several voltages. It's cheaper to make one controller assembly and customize it a little for different voltages than to have several different assemblies. So you probably have a controller that can be used for 36 or 48v with customization. That range covers most volume ebike sales in China.

If you run it at 48v, probably that will work fine, but you will lose undervoltage protection for your battery, which is set typically at 31v for a nominal 36V controller. So you have to be careful, maybe use a Cycle Analyst or accurate voltmeter. If you drain your 48v batteries to 31v, they will be damaged. Don't go below say 42v.

 

[motomech]

Hi,

I am new to the forum and since two months I am also a first time ebike owner looking for some help. I have ordered a 48v battery to increase the speed on my ebike which is currently running a 36v q100 350w 201rpm in a 26 inch rear tyre. Having read some of the posts on this topic, I understand that the controller is the key to avoid burning the motor. If someone knowledgeable could comment on the following solutions, I would be very grateful.
<<<>>>

That Cutes are prone to "burning up" is a myth. yes, a few have been toasted, but they were run at high Volts. Far more common is melting the connectors or turning the controller into a pocket warmer

<<<>>>

I should mention that it is pretty flat where I live, although it is very windy. I am constantly giving the motor full throttle and I also pedal vigorously using a 52-11 teeth setup to achieve maximum speed. I rarely drop below 17 mph even when climbing hills. Average speed is about 18.5-22 mph depending on how the wind blows.
<<<>>>

I've run Q100s of every type and am currently riding with a pair of 201s. So I understand your wanting a little more speed. One option is to buy a mid-speed 260 motor only and swap it into your built wheel to put you at 20 mph. Another option is applying 48V to your 201 for the same top speed. The best combo for most is the 260 on 48V for 23 mph. But for now, let's talk about putting 48V on your 201

<<<>>>

1. I have opened my current controller on one side to take peek inside and I can distinguish 63v on one of the can shaped things.

Am I right to assume that this must be one of the capacitors? Could there be anything else stamped with 63v than the capacitors? The reason I am asking is that this can shaped thing is lying down instead of standing up as I have seen in pictures of capcitors in controllers.

Since I am currently running a 36v battery with this controller, do I need to worry about the max current of the controller also? Could i determine the max current if I properly opened up the controller and looked at the transistors?
<<<>>>

If your controller is about the size of a pack of cig.s, it's probably a 14 A unit. It would likely survive @ 48V and could be modified to around 17A. But controllers in the power range we are talking about are not expensive, so I suggest replacing it

<<<>>>

2. I have also considered buying the s-lcd-3 +s12sh (800w 35a) combination and set the controller to halve the current giving me 17,5 amps of max output. Has anyone confirmed that the controller actually succeeds in limiting the current output as advertised? Otherwise I would probably burn the motor pretty quickly.

The problem for using the BMS B. sine wave controller with the Q100s is they really don't offer one that matches it. The S12S is too powerful for the Cute and while many think they they can "tune it"with the current limiter, that is for PAS only. Trust me, I tried it and didn't like the combo

3. I also understand that you could buy the KU93 or ku123 controllers and file down one of the shunts to decrease max current. I don't see myself doing any soldering on the remaining shunt. Which one would you recommend?

4. Lastly, I have found this 350w 17a 36v/48V compatible controller on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-Controller-For-E-bike-Scooter-with-without-Hall-Sensor-36V-48V-350W-/321867901730?hash=item4af0d26b22:g:08gAAOSwKIpV-i4J

The seller has no knowledge on how many mosfets it contains. Do you think this could be a viable option or is it just cheap junk?

<<<>>>

I've tried over a half a dozen controllers on the Cute and this is my fav.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-48V-350W-9-Mosfets-E-Bike-Motor-Controller-with-LED-meter-/221849795712?var=&hash=item33a7473c80
It is simple, sturdy, quiet and the LED display works well. It also has a useful Low Voltage Cutoff of 42V, shoulkd your new battery does not have one. The fact that it's available on Ebay saves on shipping. It's actually from Elifebikes, a vendor that is trusted here.

<<<>>>

I know this is a very long first post, but I did not want to leave anything out. Again, I would really appreciate comments and pros/cons of the different solutions. Other possible solutions are also greatly appreciated.

 

[motomech]

Just to flesh out the other option, you could buy a 260 motor only and swap into your existing motor/wheel. It is not hard to do.
This would be less than $200, depending on shipping costs(Where are you? Profile!). This would be a good option if your 36V battery is a good one and you can't resell it.
Whether or not you would want to still upgrade the controller, well, it would add some snap and climbing power, but Amps do not add top speed.
One possibility is swapping the new, more powerful "H" q100 motor core. If you did this, you could match it up with the 19A 9-FET from E Life Bike for a relatively powerful Cute system.
You could get both the motor and controller from ELB, to save on shipping.

EDIT, I just reread your first post and see that I missed the fact you have already ordered a new battery. You should have talked to us first.
You could still swap in a 260 H and new controller for the best single motor Q100 combo of all.

 

[suddenurge]

Thanks for all replies - some very useful information here. I have just updated my profile so now you can see that I live in Sweden .

I borrowed a screwdriver small enough to fully open the controller without stripping the screws. The inside can be described as follows:

8 can shaped things, I assume the capacitors:
1 marked "CL" and "25v 220µF"
4 marked "CL" and "50v 47µF"
1 marked "CL" and "16v 220µF"
1 marked "DL" and "50v 470µF"
1 marked "CT" and "63v 100µF"

7 FETs screwed to a heatsink . They all have the same markings in 3 rows:

"P
HY1607
LA35J G"

Equipped with this information, I would greatly appreciate if someone could give me a definitive answer with regards to compatibility with a 48v battery and also the max amp draw of this controller.

Regarding the battery, I got a great deal and paid only $190 for a brand new battery (48v 11ah) at an online auction, so I did not hesitate to pull the trigger. However, will not get much money for my used 36v battery here and shipping abroad is prohibitively expensive. Hence I have concluded that the ideal solution would be to have a controller which can handle both batteries. The 48v would be my main commuter battery, but during the weekends I could use the 36v instead since the plug is the same for both. I realize that I forgot to mention this in my original post .

The battery I am using are bottle batteries without built-in controllers. I was under the impression that the bms in the battery would prevent discharge beyond the low voltage cut-off point or will the controller override the bms and keep drawing amps?

 

[slowhands]

If your car had 6 bolts in the engine measuring 100mm, could you tell how many horsepower the engine had? No. You do not have enough information to know for sure if this controller will work at 48v. You would need the schematics, and specifications from the maker, which are in Chinese no doubt. Good luck with that. I have used controllers that are rated 36/48V that are very similar to yours in design, so I would say it is a good possibility but not a certainty.

I can say the MOSFETs can handle 48v, barely. They are rated 68v 70A max, which you would know if you had done a google search on HY1607P and read the data sheet. These are too close to 48V for me to use in a 48V design, I'd go to 100V devices, but the cost pressure in this market is severe, so they cut corners.

Here is a copy of the HY1607P MOSFET data sheet from a Russian ebike board:
http://electro-bike.ru/foto/Q100/HY1607P.pdf
Here is a more current datasheet from the manufacturer of the device, which is very slow to load from China's internet:
http://www.hooyi.cc/uploads/file/201506/20150616140548_883.PDF
Here is a past mention of the part on ES, in connection with a so called KU63 controller which someone burned out by overheating, not overvolting:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=892592&display_history=true

Not much help, but hints, anyway. As I said before, try it and see if it works. These controllers cost under $20, no are great loss if something burns out. Here is the cheap 36v/48v controller that I have used in a couple of builds:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371239291127?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[suddenurge]

Thanks slowhands. Erroneously, I thought this was all the information needed to determine compatability by someone more knowledgeable than myself. I am a complete tech newbie (although I tried to do my research before I started the thread). Thus, I feel compelled to seek guidance from experts like yourself. Thanks everyone for being patient with me.