Portable Hydro Generator

S

shorttyd

1 W
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
59
Location
Janesville, WI or Waukesha, WI
I've only seen a couple portable hydro generation projects. One on youtube, one on Red Neck Rocket Science. I think it is the most viable option for generating energy while on the road. I want to use a brushless out runner for an RC boat with water cooling. I will make a cone mesh CVT (and probably some nylon pulleys to make a huge reduction). It will need a controller. It should be submersible. It needs to generate at least 300w.

I want to be able to ride for an hour with electric assist. Stop, throw the generator in the water, fish for a few hours. Then, ride up or down to the next spot.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't know what you're talking about. Can you post a few links? My idea of hyro generator is a hydro-electric dam. There are low-flow generators that only require a few feet of rise. And flow generators that can access river bed flow or tidal, on various scales. These latter are either low output or huge so as to increase flow diameters. But Stop, throw the generator in the water, fish for a few hours? What are you talking about? :?:
 
haha. Really, is there a generator that works on water? Like a H2O battery? Some variation of fuel-cell? Or some such? Or was this a joke and we should be laughing? I heard about this electrical generation system that works on thermal difference between upper and lower strata of water, to create flow, that could then be tapped. So there are these ideas floating around. Is it all just pond scum? :lol:
 
A propeller on a stick in a stream can generate power.

To get meaningful power you need a big prop or some high speed water.
 
Or you need some water at all. They only let the Rio Grande run about 6 weeks a year now. Micro hydro I've seen can use a tiny bit of water, but a long hose tapping a spring way uphill is the key. Build up pressure to a little nozzle.

I think to use a relatively slow current in the stream, you'd need a pretty big prop. Gets you back into the ol, "is it heavier or more awkward to carry than more battery" discussion again. Perhaps you could use some kind of folding funnel to increase the flow speed at the prop?
 
there is a large scale low head tidal flow hydroelectric generation dam that is being designed and built in china to capture the tidal flow along the coast.

it involves building a dam structure out into the ocean connecting the land to some islands offshore, about 18km as i recall.

it captures the flow parallel to the coast during the diurnal tidal cycle and the dam structure also has windmills mounted along the top out into the ocean.
 
Check it out.
Kayak, outrigger, vertical axis turbine, and an electric kayak trailer.

The outrigger could be a counterbalance and the generator can hang off the opposite side...

Who's coming with me?
 
The forward facing shrouded 3 bladed propeller drives a permanent magnet alternator producing up to 100 watts, or 8 Amps output current for a 12 volt system at 9.2 mph (8 knots or 4 m/s).
Water speed greater than 4 mph (3.75 knots or 1.79 m/s) is highly recommended or power output will not be significant. Power output increases with faster water speed.
NOTE: We can NOT accept returns on units once they have been installed.
Click to expand...

9.2 mph sounds quite fast. Think about a stick moving along as you walk beside.


There is an international river classification system to rate sections of rivers as to their boating difficulty. This rating uses a "class" number to indicate its relative difficulty as outlined below.
Class Difficulty Description
I Easy and Novice Small waves, river speed about a fast walk (less then 4 mph),river drops less then 5 feet per mile.
II Medium or Intermediate Regular waves, easy eddies and river bends, river speed can be faster then a walk (2- 4 mph), river drops from 5-15 feet per mile.
III Difficult or Expert Maneuvering in rapids necessary, powerful eddies, standing waves, river speed 4-8 mph and drops 10-25 feet per mile.
IV Very Difficult or Expert Difficult water, long extended rapids, powerful hydraulics and eddies, standing waves, river speeds greater then 6 mph and river drops greater then 30 feet per mile.
V Exceedingly Difficult Large river drops and standing waves, extreme hydraulics, Seldom attempted.
VI Dangerous Involves substantial hazard to life.
Click to expand...

And it costs $1600
 
arkmundi said:
A fine idea. Any doubt that China's economy has overtaken the USA should be put to rest. Wanxiang came along and gobbled up A123 like it was a mere appetizer. Very large coastal dam enclosing a bay with the new huge 5mw turbines mounted on top? What a vision.
Click to expand...

from the drawings in the article it was not a big dam and it looked more like a bilateral trestle of very low height just above the water line which i assumed would be like high tide. extended out from a promontory across a bay to some islands. maybe i will find it again since it was on an EV link and recent. i thought the windmills was like some added hype to sell the project. who knows if they can get financing.
 
Re the amazon linked generator, Well, yeah, if you have streams flowing at 5 mph or more then a dip in the stream turbine will work good.
Also implied, some decent head if you had 100ft of lightweight hose to develop even more pressure to a nozzle.

When they do turn on the river in my town, it flows at about 1 mph. But there are some irrigation diversion dams, and a hose siphoning down 15" from the top of one of those could run a nice hydro genny. So depending on the spot, it could work. Those dams make good fishing spots too!

Similarly, a micro wind generator could be set up while you fished, if wind was more plentiful than fast water.

It just depends on what you have more of locally, Wind, solar, or a fast river. Here, it's definitely solar.
 
The featured item is not functional as it is. It needs mounting hardware. Something to stop it laying there like a trolley, and to stop the motor spinning with the blades. While being heavy enough to anchor it from washing away. Or guy lined.

All the additional stuff mounts up. Though I couldn't see a published weight to numerate my point.

Best numeration is 1600. For a 100w motor and blade set. Sort of thing bolted to most car radiators. Only they have a cowling on cars, that seems to make life easier. Couple of poles nailed into the river bed like bed posts, and a few cable ties would mount that. If such a fast river had a soft bed.


For some time I have fancied a smaller project. Just enough to light some led marker lamps for river navigation. I theorised the void behind an object could be a useful low pressure area for accelerating the water beyond river speed. I guess a fixed buoy could have a channel through it, improving water speed further still. It is foul water though. The cleaning requirement is greater than the electrical yield.
 
I built a system years ago that ran off a very small stream but had a good amount of drop. As I recall, the static pressure on the line was around 43 psi, so somewhere around 100 feet of drop. Water was collected with a small basin and fed a 2" dia polyethylene pipe that ran downstream. The generator was a brushed permanent magnet motor off a linear accelerator from work. Rated 90 VDC and something like 1hp. It was big but very efficient. It ran almost continuously for about 10 years before needing a bearing replacement. The brushes still looked like new at that point. The pipe went into a nozzle at the generator and drove a home made Pelton wheel on the generator. About 30W was all I could get out of it, but since it ran 24 hours/day, it would add up. If I had 10 pipes and nozzles (or the equivalent), it could make 300W, but that would require more water than was available most of the time.

One outage was caused by a newt getting into the pipe at the top and taking a ride. Must have been fun until he got to the nozzle. It took us a while to figure out what the problem was, but when we extracted the poor newt, his head was perfectly cone shaped.

I could imagine using something like a rolled up fire hose that runs along a stream in steep territory.

For larger rivers, something like a trolling generator made for sail boats would be more practical. It would need to be either submergible or have a long shaft. A submergible one would look sort of like a ducted fan. You'd want to place it where the water was running fast. All of these things are pretty heavy.
 
I guess to be more realistic I have to build around an alternator designed for wind turbines. They use neodymium magnets. They still aren't light though, 25lbs. The things are expensive, too; $700-800.

The weight starts to add up, but is justifiable. The trailer will need suspension and breaks. I was thinking of making the trailer a push trailer, inspired by the solar push trailers, but I think I need the power up front for safety.

2I5lbs alternator,
20lbs rotor?,
55lbs kayak,
25lbs trailer,
25lbs of lithium?

150lbs not including fishing gear, food, and camping equipment.
+120lbs rider
+ 20lbs bicycle

290lbs grand total.

I wont bring the bike on the kayak with me, I will chain it to a tree or something. When I am generating, I will probably need to tie off to a couple trees or something, I imagine the rotor will drag. While I am tying things to trees, a hammock, a tarp, etc., etc.

If the drag from the rotor tries to take the yak down, I might need some inflatable pontoons or something.

rotor3.jpg
 
nice info chaps!

So it would have to be useable in various river conditions, from 1 m^3 per second, up to major tributaries and rivers?

problem with a propellor generator is that it needs to be tied with a rigid fixture, which adds alot of weight to the rig.

if there is rotation, it sound be VAWT kind of rotation, so that you could simply tow it on to any bridge, tie a stone underneath and a float on top, and it would go round and round.
 

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Meaningful power can't be mustered this way. That is why nothing exists except a few rip-off items. The link said once wet no warranty. Can you imagine returning some leaky swim goggles and the assist saying "sorry, these have been in water" The problem is it won't make enough power to light an led on the control panel. You will moan, and they will give that "we said 'up to' though didn't we Sir" line. Like their an internet service provider or something.

150lbs is a lot of lipo. A dozen fresh packs? How many times do you want to change site before heading home. I bet you don't have many sites that can support a water powered genny.


I can just about remember a thread on the vehicle that traveled into the wind faster than the wind itself. I wonder if it applies. Back to my pint I think.
 
Well that tickled me. One that looks laughable and one for the nutters who would pay $3000 for such a thing. Then the same one again, if I'm not mistaken.

An old rabbit gti has broad shallow blades. Any sort of baffle will increase pressure across the fan for better results. A tarp can dam a stream. The problem then would be fouling. Give it a try. It's $10 worth of research.

Fancy cars might have quiet fans. They would also carry a blade set designed for lower speeds. I'm more interested in the lower speed motors though. The rabbit gti has two speeds.

They are weather resistant. A coat of silicone and fresh grease might help. Maybe a washer on the outer face of the bush, that water pressure would hold in place. Just to help the grease stay a while longer. Ultimately it will fill. It's 12v though. No need to blow displacement air into it constantly.

Another option would be the same blades, on a car alternator. You rewind the stator and fit magnets to the rotor. Swap out for stainless bearings and that could last some time.

Your right not to believe me, but give it a try to some extent. You could end up with a generator cage holding a fan from an old belt driven car. To use the belt drive, getting you alternator out the water and sped up.


It won't work though. Buying more battery is a cert
 
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