nechaus
100 kW
milking it while they still can
Prolonging the Misery!!! ... ???
- Thread starter DrkAngel
- Start date
DrkAngel
1 GW
For example ... New York State:
Imports $45,804,847,200 in oil products annually.
This is money leaving the State.
$2290.40 per person =
$9161.60 per family of 4 - sucked away from the New York State economy ... every year.
Compare this to the $0.44 per person (44¢) it spends annually on - Conservation/Energy-Efficiency R & D Programs- Expenditures
Or the $ 0.11 per person (11¢) spent annually on - Renewable Energy R & D Programs- Expenditures
Note - Does not include Coal or Natural gas imports.
Imports $45,804,847,200 in oil products annually.
This is money leaving the State.
$2290.40 per person =
$9161.60 per family of 4 - sucked away from the New York State economy ... every year.
Compare this to the $0.44 per person (44¢) it spends annually on - Conservation/Energy-Efficiency R & D Programs- Expenditures
Or the $ 0.11 per person (11¢) spent annually on - Renewable Energy R & D Programs- Expenditures
Note - Does not include Coal or Natural gas imports.
DrkAngel
1 GW
They should have put their plans into effect sooner ... hurricane-nor'easter Sandy just flooded, much of, Manhattan Island ... causing several Billion $ damage.DrkAngel said:Darn! Got a better response on a different forum ...
To my "Dark Humor ... with enough truth to make it scary!"
Anyhoo ... I'll post up my follow-up:
Global warming?
Step 1:
Recognize the problem.
Increased CO2-reduced O2, is causing global warming?
Step 2:
Deal with the problem
A. Solve the problem
Reduce-reverse CO2 production-content
or:
B. Live with the problem
. 1. Evacuate population from flooding regions
... a . Antarctic-Arctic melt will raise sea-level substantially
There is an estimated 100 meter sea-level rise, when combined with permafrost melt
(click on picture, for large map)
. 2. Evacuate population from newly formed desert areas
... a . The non-flooded areas of the USA will become increasingly arid, prompting massive migration towards temperate Canada and tropical Mexico
... b . 1/2 of Europe gone and Russia will be almost completely submerged, Cuba, Ireland - gone ... along with many other countries and Island chains, forcing migration towards the newly-tropical Northern Africa. The Middle-East will most likely be transformed into a temperate, to tropical, paradise.
Strangely? Every major oil exporting country looks to benefit from global warming - except possibly England. (they will be about 80% submerged)
Almost the entire US Eastern seaboard will be gone, one notable exception might be Manhattan Island. They do have plans for massive dikes.
Note: New regions of land will be made habitable!
Greenland & Antarctica might become safe havens for refugee populations.
150-200 million displaced from eastern & southern USA!
...
Superstorm Sandy damage estimated at $20,000,000,000 ... and rising.
After being flooded by hurricane Irene, last year, this might be ... becoming the new "normal" ... they might have to start construction much sooner than planned!
Considered as another "unique", "freak" weather occurrence, Sandy was a hurricane-tropical storm that merged with an arctic nor'easter to form a massive "occurrence" that covered almost half of the country.
Right now I am sitting near the center of the tropical storm remnant ... but almost completely surrounded by a perimeter of snowfall! ... ???
DrkAngel
1 GW
Hurricane Sandy estimated damage just passed $50,000,000,000 ($50 billion) ... Manhattan Island alone.
CBS news just mentioned plans for a levee system for Manhattan Island.
Estimated cost ... a paltry $15 billion, less than a third of this weeks damages.
Features include "25 foot tall closeable gates".
March 30-31, 2009 - Infrastructure Seminar Looks at NYC Storm Surge Barriers
"Climate scientists from Stony Brook University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology projected the growing threat of coastal flooding during severe storms and conceptual designs of storm surge barriers were presented by major engineering firms from New York, the United Kingdom, and the Netherlands. The speakers evaluated the consequences of storm surges and established the technical feasibility of storm surge barriers to protect the inner city and much of nearby New Jersey."
Hurricane Sandy Shows We Need To Prepare For Climate Change, Cuomo And Bloomberg Say
Posted: 10/30/2012 1:29 pm EDT Updated: 10/31/2012 3:25 pm EDT
"NEW YORK -- A day after New York City experienced its worst storm surges in recorded history, Governor Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the city may need to respond to climate change with steps like storm barriers. Such protections would be extremely costly, but climate change experts said Hurricane Sandy provided a first glimpse of the challenges all coastal areas will face as sea levels rise and extreme weather events become more frequent.
Cuomo said on Tuesday that he told President Barack Obama it seemed like "we have a 100-year flood every two years now."
"These are extreme weather patterns. The frequency has been increasing,” he said.
Of protections like levees in Lower Manhattan, Cuomo said, "It is something we’re going to have to start thinking about … The construction of this city did not anticipate these kinds of situations. We are only a few feet above sea level."
"I don't know how practical it is to put gates on PATH tubes and subway tunnels," Bloomberg said in a separate press conference. "What is clear is that the storms we've experienced in the last year or so around this country and around the world are much more severe than before. Whether that's global warming or what, I don't know, but we'll have to address those issues."
Although levees or other storm surge barriers might sound like fantasy to some, there are proposals on the table for introducing barriers across New York's harbor or in the East River. Implementing them would cost at least billions of dollars -- but infrastructure experts said the time to prepare for climate change is now, not after disasters.
Klaus Jacob, a climate expert at Columbia University, warned months ago that a major flood could result in $58 billion in economic damages from a large storm surge. An event on something like that scale appears to have come to pass."
CBS news just mentioned plans for a levee system for Manhattan Island.
Estimated cost ... a paltry $15 billion, less than a third of this weeks damages.
Features include "25 foot tall closeable gates".
March 30-31, 2009 - Infrastructure Seminar Looks at NYC Storm Surge Barriers
"Climate scientists from Stony Brook University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology projected the growing threat of coastal flooding during severe storms and conceptual designs of storm surge barriers were presented by major engineering firms from New York, the United Kingdom, and the Netherlands. The speakers evaluated the consequences of storm surges and established the technical feasibility of storm surge barriers to protect the inner city and much of nearby New Jersey."
Hurricane Sandy Shows We Need To Prepare For Climate Change, Cuomo And Bloomberg Say
Posted: 10/30/2012 1:29 pm EDT Updated: 10/31/2012 3:25 pm EDT
"NEW YORK -- A day after New York City experienced its worst storm surges in recorded history, Governor Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the city may need to respond to climate change with steps like storm barriers. Such protections would be extremely costly, but climate change experts said Hurricane Sandy provided a first glimpse of the challenges all coastal areas will face as sea levels rise and extreme weather events become more frequent.
Cuomo said on Tuesday that he told President Barack Obama it seemed like "we have a 100-year flood every two years now."
"These are extreme weather patterns. The frequency has been increasing,” he said.
Of protections like levees in Lower Manhattan, Cuomo said, "It is something we’re going to have to start thinking about … The construction of this city did not anticipate these kinds of situations. We are only a few feet above sea level."
"I don't know how practical it is to put gates on PATH tubes and subway tunnels," Bloomberg said in a separate press conference. "What is clear is that the storms we've experienced in the last year or so around this country and around the world are much more severe than before. Whether that's global warming or what, I don't know, but we'll have to address those issues."
Although levees or other storm surge barriers might sound like fantasy to some, there are proposals on the table for introducing barriers across New York's harbor or in the East River. Implementing them would cost at least billions of dollars -- but infrastructure experts said the time to prepare for climate change is now, not after disasters.
Klaus Jacob, a climate expert at Columbia University, warned months ago that a major flood could result in $58 billion in economic damages from a large storm surge. An event on something like that scale appears to have come to pass."
DrkAngel said:
DrkAngel said:
DrkAngel said:
Just my thoughts
There are many oil conservation methods
Effeciency improvments of course
Change of base energy used from gas to liquefied petroleum gas(LPG) or other derivates(fuels).
Change of base energy input equation. (Use free active energy from the earth to output energy. Electricity for e-veichles)
Change of action taken to negate used energy - not use it at all because there is another way is it not?
Moral dilemmas
Value of person life vs environment. Why not both as it does not add any costs?
Political education. "The hard way to an agreement". Why not easy?
Decision makers short-term thinking. hmmmm... (Storm example as you mentioned)
Change of consumer cars to e-veichles. It is not how much it costs, it is more if you will downgrade your comfort.
I "no change" thinking
I like this forum because it started my thinking of these kind of things. It has already saved me 380,000 dollars or 19,000 hours worth of working or 9 full years.
so much to say but... too much to write to be written
Chalo
100 TW
If the power plant behind your wall plug burns brown coal (and for most folks, it does), then we're all better off if you use a gasoline vehicle rather than an equivalent EV. Especially if the high cost of gas makes you conserve your use of the vehicle.
EVs are only categorically better to the degree they are smaller and slower and less powerful than stinking gas cars. And, of course, to the degree that they can use renewable energy if and when it becomes available.
EVs are only categorically better to the degree they are smaller and slower and less powerful than stinking gas cars. And, of course, to the degree that they can use renewable energy if and when it becomes available.
DrkAngel
1 GW
While the melting of Arctic "pack ice" does not, initially, increase ocean water levels, (sea level), Ocean temperature rise does.
Sea level will increase 28 inches (70cm) for any 1 degree Celsius rise in ocean temperature.
(Thermal expansion)
Present sea level rises are mainly due to glacial melts.
We have yet to see significant sea level rise due to arctic and antarctic sea ice or shelf ice, thaws.
Due to "unique" water freezing properties.
Water contracts as it cools, like most every other compounds, elements etc.
However when water nears freezing it begins to expand.
This turning point is at 4 degrees Celsius (4C), about 41 degrees Fahrenheit (41F).
So arctic ice melting, from 0C ice to 4C water, actually reduces the volume of ocean water.
Arctic ice melting might be moderating sea level rise!
However ... once water reaches this 4C "breakpoint" it does expand!
Adding to the 28" sea level rise per 1C increase of mean ocean temperature.
This danger was just made more urgent, to me, when I read the report of a sailboat being able to make its way through the Northwest passage via a "high arctic" route!
CBC News Posted: Nov 5, 2012 2:16 PM ET- Three sailors traveled across a newly melted route through Canada's high Arctic to draw attention to global warming.
Of course this Breakpoint is not a sharp clear occurrence.
While Antarctica has its sea ice at roughly one latitude, which might produce a rather abrupt change from contraction to expansion, the Arctic has a wide latitude of ice, creating a more prolonged - gradual transition.
Hopefully, and thankfully predictions insist that, we still have several decades before we will have the first seasonal melt of the entire Arctic ice cap.
Sea level will increase 28 inches (70cm) for any 1 degree Celsius rise in ocean temperature.
(Thermal expansion)
Present sea level rises are mainly due to glacial melts.
We have yet to see significant sea level rise due to arctic and antarctic sea ice or shelf ice, thaws.
Due to "unique" water freezing properties.
Water contracts as it cools, like most every other compounds, elements etc.
However when water nears freezing it begins to expand.
This turning point is at 4 degrees Celsius (4C), about 41 degrees Fahrenheit (41F).
So arctic ice melting, from 0C ice to 4C water, actually reduces the volume of ocean water.
Arctic ice melting might be moderating sea level rise!
However ... once water reaches this 4C "breakpoint" it does expand!
Adding to the 28" sea level rise per 1C increase of mean ocean temperature.
This danger was just made more urgent, to me, when I read the report of a sailboat being able to make its way through the Northwest passage via a "high arctic" route!
CBC News Posted: Nov 5, 2012 2:16 PM ET- Three sailors traveled across a newly melted route through Canada's high Arctic to draw attention to global warming.
Of course this Breakpoint is not a sharp clear occurrence.
While Antarctica has its sea ice at roughly one latitude, which might produce a rather abrupt change from contraction to expansion, the Arctic has a wide latitude of ice, creating a more prolonged - gradual transition.
Hopefully, and thankfully predictions insist that, we still have several decades before we will have the first seasonal melt of the entire Arctic ice cap.
DrkAngel
1 GW
Possibly more important is the fact that, worldwide, deep ocean water is presently transitioning through this 4C breakpoint.DrkAngel said:
Deep ocean water temperature is cold!
Worldwide!
As the oceans warm, deep seawater (below 4C) contracts, somewhat offsetting the expanding (above 4C) shallower ocean waters ... until the deep ocean water hits this 4C breakpoint.
At this point there will be a comparative explosion in sea level rise!
Attachments
DrkAngel
1 GW
DrkAngel
1 GW
"Atmospheric dust levels" have been attributed to asteroid impacts, volcanic activity, etc ... ?DrkAngel said:
Earth "mean" temperature differential seems to have been limited to a 10 degree C range. Well for the last 1/2 billion years, anyhow. Average temperature appears to be about 5 degrees cooler than present.
We are nearing a true world record for high temperature.
Humans are liable to push the earth into uncharted territory.
In the past, world temperature has only existed at present temperatures for, comparatively, brief moments.
Strangely, and ominously, periods of high world temperature are, universally, immediately followed by precipitous plummets into, near to full blown, Ice Ages! ...???
Some unknown global phenomena?
Worldwide droughts causing global burn-offs of vegetation? Smoke and dust storms blotting out the Sun?
???
