Questions on Catrike 700 build?

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

I am considering a Catrike 700 as a super light weight, efficient project either for sale or as pure R&D. I stock frame clamps for this tube diameter and I know there is room for a 4kw drive and a 12S 10ah lipo pack. Odds are the trike (33 pounds by itself) with drive would weigh about 50pounds AUW and be somewhere around or under 14wh per mile at 20mph.

Anyway, my question is this;

The 700 costs $2,700 plus shipping or sales tax. The local shop around here is 10.25% sales tax! I am NOT paying almost $300 in sales tax! So, I am looking for the best price on the model 700 if anyone here knows. I am also curious what the percieved market is for this, or at least the interest level?

Matt

 

[nsasch]

I normally read all of your posts, but only the Catrike 700 posts do I always respond to.

So, you've convinced me that you can make a useful motorized Catrike 700. I love the speed of the 700, but using it on roads at high speed is difficult due to very low ground clearance. Speed bumps are very difficult to navigate with it.

You've got a very small motor set up, so there's plenty of room for the motor. From my experience, loading up the 700's rack with batteries is a bad idea. It puts way too much load on the wheel and dropouts in a bad direction. Things started to twist with the lightest shifting of weight on the rack. (This was 30lbs of batteries.) Hiding batteries in the seat mesh is a possibility. An ES member has a Catrike Expedition build done that way.

The 700 is the fastest trike out there, and well-built too. I bought it for use as a velomobile conversion though, and have been displeased from that perspective. I could definitely see your motorized version of the Catrike being used for short trips around town, going to shops, etc, in good weather. For long distance or racing on bumpy roads, I don't recommend it.

I can't wait to see what you do with it.

 

[recumpence]

Thanks for the input, Man.

I ordered my 700.

The setup will be 4kw drive under the frame ahead of the rear wheel. The pack will only weigh 7 pounds (48 volt, 10ah lipo). That pack will probably be slung between the seat mesh and the frame spar. I want this thing super light! The pack will be easily removeable for pedal only riding. I may setup the drive to easily remove as well.

I plan to ride it pedal only through the end of the season anyway because I do not have time to work on it. I have too many orders to ahve any free time. :wink:

Anyway, this trike was purchased with the proffit from my KMX sale. So, I am not out any cash for it, just labor time.

One thing I have been looking for in a trike is being able to keep up with my family on long rides. They all ride two wheeled bikes. My KMX trikes, fun as they are, are not good for long distances. They have too much drag and weigh too much. Now, you can beat the tar out of them. But, they are best for general knocking around, not long distance touring and high speed riding. This 700 seems to be the closest thing to a lowracer that exists in the trike arena.

Matt

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

I think this will work. I hope its not too late.

I think you should contact Catrike and either:
Ask for one at dealer wholesale and send them links to your recumbent build, PK Ripper build, and Trike build and the Youtube videos. It won't cost them a dime to sell one at the normal dealer wholesale and they will get a substantial amount of free publicity. They would be fools not to do it.

You could take it a little further and offer to use one of their trikes if they sell to you at dealer wholesale. Most trike dealers sell multiple brands and you are already a KMX dealer. Tell them you are building a small number of Etrikes and you want to evaluate a Catrike for comparison to the KMX. Mention the number of orders you currently have. Include a link to the FFR Trikes Site and tell them you are supplying the drive components.

Tell them you are buying wholesale and selling for component MSRP. You really want to try a Catrike but your business model won't support it if you can't purchase wholesale. Worst case they sell you one trike and get some free publicity. I think its more likely it turns out well enough that you sell several with even more accompanying publicity.

 

[recumpence]

To be honest, Catrike is a really snob-ish company. Their poop don't stink. They are kind of a pain to deal with.

I spoke with my local Catrike dealer about getting one at a discount. I finally got them to agree to discount enough to make up for the sales tax. But, they HAD to sell to me through their one particular location because, though they have multiple stores, only ONE location is authorized to sell Catrike. So, I have to drive to the FAARRR location to pick it up. They also required advance payment IN FULL to order it. Hmm. Lastly, they are HUGELY against electric drives. They are VERY direct about the fact that electric drives void all warranties. They want nothing to do with E-bike guys.

Like I said, they are strange. I even tried to order just a headrest from a couple places. They basically do not want to sell me one unless I am a Catrike owner. Hmm, how do they know I did not buy one used? It is truely weird, like trying to buy a Bugatti or something----------- "Let's see, do you qualify as a client WE are willing to sell to?"

Again, it was weird. But, that being said, the 700 is said to be the fastest trike you can buy. I can live with its shortcomings (ground clearance, rough ride, far reclined angle, etc. That is part of the performance bike experience anyway.

All in all, I should love the trike. If not, I will put a drive on it and sell it.

But, I have always wanted a performance trike and this was my chance!

Matt

 

[GGoodrum]

The pack will only weigh 7 pounds (48 volt, 10ah lipo).

Just for clarity, so as not confuse the newbies amongst us, a 12s LiPo pack has a nominal voltage of 44.4V, not 48V. You'd need to go to a 13s configuration of LiPos to get to a true 48V nominal setup, but then none of the RC-based controllers can handle more than 12s, and the largest pack you can get these days is 6s.

SLA cells have a nominal voltage of 2.0V per cell, but get charged to about 2.40-2.45V per cell. That means a 48V SLA conviguration is about 58-59V, fresh off the charger. LiFePO4 cells have a nominal voltage of 3.3V and get charged to 3.65-3.70V, so a 16s configuration matches up well, from a charging point-of-view, to a typical 48V SLA setup. Basically, 4 LiFePO4 cells equal 6 SLA cells, again from a charging perspective. The difference is that the SLA voltage drops down a lot more than the LiFePO4 16s setup. The controllers, etc., that are setup for 48V SLAs, have to be able to withstand the full voltage fresh off the charger, so you get an added benefit of a higher nominal voltage, when switching to LiFePO4. A 16s LiFePO4 pack has a nominal voltage of 52.8V, vs 48V for SLAs. That's a voltage boost of almost 5V.

Anyway, LiPos don't fit into this neat little box of being able to be easily configured into "drop-in" replacement configurations. This isn't really an issue here, with RC-based setups, but I'm starting to see LiPos used more in "standard" ebike setups, and so there's a lot more confusion. If you call a 12s LiPo pack "48V", some may think you can use a standard 48V SLA/LiFePO4 charger with this pack, which would have disastrous results. You charge a a 12s LiPo pack to 59V and it is going to try and put close to 5V into each cell. That will, in most cases, cause a explosion/fire.

I think to keep things safe, we should just stick to using the standard RC-type nominal voltage rating of 3.7V per cell, for LiPo packs.

-- Gary