Qulbix Raptor 140

[Rix]

Anyone know about how many 18650 cells can fit into the Raptor's battery box? I imagine quite a bit but math isnt my strong suit.

Thanks Tim

My math sucks also Archer, so the answer is "a lot" can fit :lol: I

 

[Archer]

Anyone know about how many 18650 cells can fit into the Raptor's battery box? I imagine quite a bit but math isnt my strong suit.

Thanks Tim

My math sucks also Archer, so the answer is "a lot" can fit :lol: I

Hey Rix,

As you know with more and more people getting into building Stealth like frames,its nice to know a few details on battery capacities.Although number estimates are going to vary even for the same frames its nice to know ballpark figures.We basically know Stealth and Phasor numbers.Now for Qulbix and NYX.I did get a diagram from NYX which shows their 18650 cell capacity at a WHOPPING 832 cells! Holy cow how far down the street would that take one? Say at 25-30mph.

 

[Rix]

Crap that's a lot Archer That's a bunch of energy. Just hit me, we could ask Hyena how many cells will fit, he has built a few batteries and Raptors for customers. He would know. I can tell you from Rod's build, his pack in his Raptor that has over 1900wh of USABLE energy storage. And I don't think his pack is broke in yet.

 

[herbalizer404]

Hi Everyone,

Congrats for your excellent builds. I want to build my own now!! I have some questions for you, i want to build one with the new 140 raptor frame.

I don't want to ride faster than 50kmh but have the best possible torque and I'm wondering this:
- To keep a light setup, is that smart to take an geared drive like this one:
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/conversion-kits/geared/ezee-rear-kit-basic-throttle.html
(To resume, 5:1 torque ratio, 3,1kg, 1250w under 48Vmax)
Is that enough with the weight of the frame (with a light battery package)?

- What is the best (not too heavy) direct drive motor in your opinion for this frame, with the highest torque and a 50/60kmh top speed?

Thanks a lot, and excuse my english.

 

[Rix]

Hi Everyone,

Congrats for your excellent builds. I want to build my own now!! I have some questions for you, i want to build one with the new 140 raptor frame.

I don't want to ride faster than 50kmh but have the best possible torque and I'm wondering this:
- To keep a light setup, is that smart to take an geared drive like this one:
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/conversion-kits/geared/ezee-rear-kit-basic-throttle.html
(To resume, 5:1 torque ratio, 3,1kg, 1250w under 48Vmax)
Is that enough with the weight of the frame (with a light battery package)?

- What is the best (not too heavy) direct drive motor in your opinion for this frame, with the highest torque and a 50/60kmh top speed?

Thanks a lot, and excuse my english.

This is an excellent option Herbalizer. Hyena, who is Australia's Raptor importer, makes a great geared hub motor kit (Neutron) using a 12s (50V HOC) lipo battery and the MAC 10 geared hub motor. I have one of his kits on a home build with almost 2800 miles on it. Still going strong. Max speed is about 48KPH or 28MPH. The MAC weighs over 4 kg and would be a better option then the ezee geared hubbie you inquired about for the Raptor. That being said, the Raptor will work with a small geared hub motor, but it really shines with a mucho powerful setup and a bigger hub motor. As far as your English goes, its fine. I have a profound respect and appreciation for everyone on ES writing in English when English isn't his/her primary language. I know what its like living in foreign lands and not speaking the language, so I appreciate it that much more when the roles are reversed.

@ Hyena, what are your thoughts about a small geared hub motor on the Raptor?

 

[Hyena]

Yeah Herb your English is fine. I've struggled much more to comprehend others who allegedly speak it as their first language :lol:
What's your location ?

As Rix said if you want to keep the weight to a minimum then the a geared motor is the way to go. They offer good torque per watt of input power but can't be pushed above ~2kw reliably and if you want max torque then a direct drive motor that can take more power is the way to go. It's well documented that I like the crystalyte motors and in this case the H4065 on ~72v would be the way to go. I use these in my new hadron kits with an 80v battery and see top speeds of 60-70km/hr so if you're happy with a little less power then 72v would get your desired top speed with plenty of shove down low. You'd be basically building yourself a DIY stealth fighter.
You said you wanted a light battery package, what sort of range are you after ? Fitting a geared motor and small battery to the raptor is certainly possible, it's almost overkill for the size and weight of the frame but that's the beauty of a DIY platform like this, you can build it how you want.
I'm actually working on plans for modified replacement side covers for the raptor 140 for those who want to run smaller batteries that will give you some open triangle space which I think visually will look quite good. More on that when it eventuates!

 

[herbalizer404]

Thank you both Rix and hyena for your answers, and for my (fr)english. I'm from France, Paris Hyena.

So, you both convinced me to choose a Direct Drive to fully release the Kraken. I was searching reducing the weight in order to not load the geared hub too heavily, but it's not the same deal anymore. I will take my chance with crystalyte, my main requirement is a strong torque. someone told me about HT were better with torque. Is the H4065 good at this job?
what do you think about the H35 serie? thank you

 

[Rix]

Thank you both Rix and hyena for your answers, and for my (fr)english. I'm from France, Paris Hyena.

So, you both convinced me to choose a Direct Drive to fully release the Kraken. I was searching reducing the weight in order to not load the geared hub too heavily, but it's not the same deal anymore. I will take my chance with crystalyte, my main requirement is a strong torque. someone told me about HT were better with torque. Is the H4065 good at this job?
what do you think about the H35 serie? thank you

Paris, very nice. I lived on an Island between Corsica France and Sardegna Italia, for 6 years. Been to Bonifacio a couple of times. I speak okay Italian and my french sucks. To answer your question the H4065 would be much better option than the HT3525 and the 4065 is only 1kg more. I know an American that lives in Paris who has a kick as home built ebike, if you need any technical assistance during the assembly process, I can put you in touch with him. Hyena can build you a kick ass plug-n-ride motor, pack, controller combo, but shipping would be very expensive I imagine. I know sending ebike stuff from America to Germany, Italy, and Australia have cost me and others a small fortune.

 

[herbalizer404]

I guess this island was an amazing place to live, I love corsica, so beautiful

Thanks for the info, maybe if my build becomes a mess, i'll ask you his contact to help me a bit Like you said, the shipping would be too expensive even I really like Hyena jobs, and I also wanted a DIY trying to reduce the bill.
Now I know two things, I want a direct drive and it must be a H4065 (this video from hyena also convinced me).
So now im hesitating about the controller, what the best for you guys with plug and play sockets and that can the most evoluate in the future.

Ps: A guy told me about that motor. what's your opinion?

 

[Hyena]

Yes the distance and shipping does make things difficult, although if you look at it the other way it's awesome that we can so easily converse about such things given we're scattered all over the globe

An 18 fet controller is a good match for the H40 series and with temp monitoring they really perform well when fed 5kw.
Maybe it's easier to get the gear from crystalyte europe ? The prices work out pretty much the same to my kits, just running lower powered controllers (which you could upgrade yourself)

 

[Rodney64]

Herb , another option for a controller would be the addapto. The mini works well with my 4065. A couple of benifits with this controller is its internal temp sensor. Mines mounted inside the frame. If you haven't allready purchased a cycle analyst this controller has both digital display and controller combined for $450 US. It's full programmable from the screen with 3 modes. Which are fully programable. It's a 5 kilowatt controller on 90 volt.

 

[herbalizer404]

Thank you guys. Sure, planet earth isn't so really big for us

yes, I think crystalyte europe is my best option to buy the beast 4065, bulk version.
I need to choose now between an adaptto mini or a lyen 18fet, I guess. what would be the easier for a noob like me?
I mean plug and play stuff like standard connectors, easy config, to start my first build easily.
I didn't mention batteries stuff yet

Thanks a lot :wink:

PS: i found my painting color, matte black, something like that

 

[Rix]

Thank you guys. Sure, planet earth isn't so really big for us

yes, I think crystalyte europe is my best option to buy the beast 4065, bulk version.
I need to choose now between an adaptto mini or a lyen 18fet, I guess. what would be the easier for a noob like me?
I mean plug and play stuff like standard connectors, easy config, to start my first build easily.
I didn't mention batteries stuff yet

Thanks a lot :wink:

PS: i found my painting color, matte black, something like that

What ever battery option you go with, make that your last purchase. You don't want batteries sitting around any longer than neccessary while your build is being completed. Of course the exception is if you have all the parts on hand, and you plan on assembling everything in a weekend or something, then you would want you battery pack ready to start riding

 

[herbalizer404]

Ok good, that's what i was thinking. Better to solve a problem, one by one
So, the adaptto seems cool, even if i thought to integrate a cycle analyst in the frame, like it's done on stealth bikes.
What is your opinion on the controller rix? if you need to chose only one controller that you need to keep your entire life
thanks

 

[Rix]

Ok good, that's what i was thinking. Better to solve a problem, one by one
So, the adaptto seems cool, even if i thought to integrate a cycle analyst in the frame, like it's done on stealth bikes.
What is your opinion on the controller rix? if you need to chose only one controller that you need to keep your entire life
thanks

I haven't tried the Max E yet. Just 18 and 24 Fet infineons. Oh and the 6 fet on the geared hubbie. But Allex from the Stealth thread has had a ton of experience with the controller and Rod has ran both the mini and max e, they swear by them, and to me, their word is as good as if I had said it. I would go with the adaptto if you can get it. Historically, the wait time is about 90 days last I checked.

 

[Rodney64]

Message Alex. He may have them in stock.

 

[herbalizer404]

Ok thanks, the mini will be mine, I'll check with alex. Just received the quote from qulbix, and ouch! winter sales are off, so I didn't expect these 1500€.
I really prefer the raptor frame, definitely, but I'll reconsider the vector as an option for this first build. Good alternative in your opinion? Will we still be friends in that case?

 

[striker54]

Ok thanks, the mini will be mine, I'll check with alex. Just received the quote from qulbix, and ouch! winter sales are off, so I didn't expect these 1500€.
I really prefer the raptor frame, definitely, but I'll reconsider the vector as an option for this first build. Good alternative in your opinion? Will we still be friends in that case?

Check here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=62005&start=25#p990626

 

[herbalizer404]

Nice! Thank you. Life isn't so bad.

 

[Rodney64]

Ok thanks, the mini will be mine, I'll check with alex. Just received the quote from qulbix, and ouch! winter sales are off, so I didn't expect these 1500€.
I really prefer the raptor frame, definitely, but I'll reconsider the vector as an option for this first build. Good alternative in your opinion? Will we still be friends in that case?

Its up to you Herb, either way most people will give advise. I've got a Phasor and now a Raptor.
As far as the frame goes I cant give advice.

 

[Offroader]

Ok thanks, the mini will be mine, I'll check with alex. Just received the quote from qulbix, and ouch! winter sales are off, so I didn't expect these 1500€.
I really prefer the raptor frame, definitely, but I'll reconsider the vector as an option for this first build. Good alternative in your opinion? Will we still be friends in that case?

What I don't like about the vector frame is the fact that it has the bottom bracket is on the rear swingarm. When you stand on the pedals you add to the unsprung weight of the rear. This is similar to adding a heavier motor, it is not something you want to do especially with a rear hub motored bike.

Just look at the bottom backet of the vector and imagine standing on the pedals and lifting up and down where the rear tire is, there is going to be extra force pushing down on that swingarm from your weight, however not as much as your body weight because of the leverage. I don't know just how much this adds as there is a formula but not something I want to do by adding more weight back there when it is already too heavy.

What I also don't know also is that if you are standing on the pedals your going to have a more bumpy ride because your weight is directly connected to the swingarm and not suspended by suspension which is designed to take the bumps.

You really want your full weight to be fully suspended with shocks and forks. Even Qulbix designer said that he didn't want this design because of the additional unsprung weight and I am very happy he takes this into consideration for optimal performance. It seems practically nobody else looks as this aspect and I was the only person to question it when I saw it. I push my bikes to the limit and want the most comfortable and smooth ride possible so any drawback like this would be out of the question for me.

Bicycles tried a similar kind of suspension called URT and it was found to not be a good setup and even listed as the worst bike designs. Supposedly the real only advantage is no chain growth which is not a problem with Qulbix when you use a clutch derailleur.

This is just my opinion here and anyone can correct me if I am wrong, I have put as much research into this as possible.
In my opinion get the best possible frame you can and what suits your build needs. The difference in prices is not much when you consider everything else you will need for the bike, many times it is the difference between a used and new suspension component. My fork alone on my bike cost me around $800 dollars, I'm certainly not going to get the wrong frame to save a few dollars. Qulbix frames are proven to work well and I have beat my bike harder than probably most anyone without any issue or degradation in performance. I know the Qulbix designer takes into account a lot of frame aspects and geometry, he knows what he is doing. That is why I'm going to build a 2nd Qulbix raptor.

To get you guys thinking, but please do your own research. Below are posts quoted about the URT or vector type of suspension. I think they sum it up nicely why I don't want a URT/vector type of suspension.

These bikes are inferior to most everything that is made today. They were passed up because they have several bad traits to them, and very few redeaming qualities. Trek sold a lot because of marketing and how cool they "looked" (who could turn down bright yellow with matching Judy SLs??), but as far as performance they weren't really anything special, and when equipped with a run-of-the-mill coil shock they were pretty terrible. I'd advise against buying this bike.

Think about it, when conditions get rough and rocky you stand up to better control your bike. When conditions get rough and rocky is the time when you NEED YOUR SUSPENSION THE MOST. This is when the suspension locks out(stiffens dramatically because the bump has to overcome the force of you standing against the pivot) with a URT. In other words, when you need it most it doesn't work. The other bad points can be designed around with SPV type shocks and progressiveness designed into the shock, but the fact that the URT stiffens when you stand up is the number 1 reason why that design is not being sold today.

Here is another post stating that it is a bad design especially for high travel suspension or DH bikes, this is the geometry we basically building.

So why did I choose a URT (unified rear triangle) design? Isn't a URT an inherently inferior design? Well, yes and no -depending on your point of view. A URT would be a poor choice for a pure race/high performance bike (especially a long travel/downhill bike)- it simply has too much unsprung weight due to the weight of the drivetrain and the long travel necessary for a downhill bike would cause the BB to move too much. The axle path is great but I feel there would be too many compromises that would lower the overall performance to an unacceptable level.

 

[herbalizer404]

Thanks for your answers. Like you said URT design seems not to be the best deal even if in this case the two axles are very close, you're right.
Concerning prices, one is 1100€, the other 550€, then I need to take my decision, taking in consideration that is my first (noob) build and I'm not the richest one.
Arf I'll take some extra time for reflexion, thank you for your precious help.

 

[striker54]

Thanks for your answers. Like you said URT design seems not to be the best deal even if in this case the two axles are very close, you're right.
Concerning prices, one is 1100€, the other 550€, then I need to take my decision, taking in consideration that is my first (noob) build and I'm not the richest one.
Arf I'll take some extra time for reflexion, thank you for your precious help.

I think the movement is not a big deal.
Dougt have made some cad models of the movement of the BB in vector frame: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61259&start=350#p987730

 

[herbalizer404]

the bottom bracket will move .36 inches upwards and .63 inches backwards

Yep, maybe not so worrying finally.

 

[Rix]

Bicycles tried a similar kind of suspension called URT and it was found to not be a good setup and even listed as the worst bike designs. Supposedly the real only advantage is no chain growth which is not a problem with Qulbix when you use a clutch derailleur.

This is just my opinion here and anyone can correct me if I am wrong, I have put as much research into this as possible.
In my opinion get the best possible frame you can and what suits your build needs. The difference in prices is not much when you consider everything else you will need for the bike, many times it is the difference between a used and new suspension component. My fork alone on my bike cost me around $800 dollars, I'm certainly not going to get the wrong frame to save a few dollars. Qulbix frames are proven to work well and I have beat my bike harder than probably most anyone without any issue or degradation in performance. I know the Qulbix designer takes into account a lot of frame aspects and geometry, he knows what he is doing. That is why I'm going to build a 2nd Qulbix raptor.

To get you guys thinking, but please do your own research. Below are posts quoted about the URT or vector type of suspension. I think they sum it up nicely why I don't want a URT/vector type of suspension.

I wanted to comment on this. Unlike my old Bomber, my Fighter is also a URT design as the bottom bracket is righ below and just slightly forward of the pivot point, when the shock is fully extended. I have about 1000 miles on it now and I can't tell much difference between it and linkageless single pivot suspension where the BB is on the frame. I haven't measured it yet but my Fighters travel has to be atleast 225-250mm usable range of motion. It works great on the rocky shit I ride. I imagine that all URT's aren't equal. There is probably some formula for optimum bb placement in relation to the swingarm pivot point and how the BB swings around the pivot point when the suspension is being compressed and extended.