Reef Invisitron - claims 11kg and 100km range

Hang on a minute reef. I wasn't asking you to carry a 25kg bike up stairs.
A kilowatt bike can easily match yours (sorry, theirs) at 15kg.

How strong are you. Are they big stairs? And why don't you throttle up stairs like the rest of us?

Oh that's right, they don't have one...
 
Cephalotus said:
depends what you design an e-bike for. If you have to persons that want to make a tour together with their fast racing bikes but one person has more power than the other which ebike would you suggest?
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Well that's easy, a mid drive back through the gears on a basic frame. A 7 speed would be legal and keep up with them all, save you a grand, and be less than 15kg if you have custard arms.
 
Samd said:
Hang on a minute reef.
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Relax yourself. I'm sitting in Germany and have never been to Australia (which is a pity and I hope I will be able to vistit there sometimes in the future)

I wasn't asking you to carry a 25kg bike up stairs.
A kilowatt bike can easily match yours (sorry, theirs) at 15kg.
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Sure it can. My standard commuter bike (using a Cute 85) weights 16kg including battery, fenders, lights, etc...

How strong are you. Are they big stairs?
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Not strong enough to carry a 25kg bike onehanded over stairs.

But this is not relevant to the discussion. I'm not in the market for a 10kg carbon racer with motor, but others are and those bikes have EVERY reason to exist.

At least they are legal within my part of the world (EU) which I assume is the second largest e-bike/pedelec market in the world (after China) by a far margin.

There are different types of electric (assisted) bikes and I'm very glad to have those options.

I use heavy and powerful motors (a 48V BionX systems with up to 1200W peak power consumption falls under that categorie in my part of the world), we have a 1700W electric bike without pedals weighting 45kg (Elmoto) at work and I also have some lightweight pedelecs with a Cute 85 that I run at only 36V and 11A. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

I would happily buy a super lightweight Vivax Assist system from Austria if I could afford it...

I most likely would not buy an expensive bike based on a tiny hub motor like Cute 75/85 or Keyde (or Tongxin), because I can built that myself cheaper (and better suited to my needs)...
 
Samd, you need to open your mind a bit. Just because you don't want one of these bikes, it doesn't mean others don't. It's not just about power. There's loads of advantages to having light-weight.
 
Samd said:
Well that's easy, a mid drive back through the gears on a basic frame. A 7 speed would be legal and keep up with them all, save you a grand, and be less than 15kg if you have custard arms.
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What is a "7 speed" and why is it legal? Remember that I'm comming from a different part of the world. Here (DIY) electric assisted bikes are legal if the motor shuts down at 25km/h (maybe you can get away with 29km/h). So for people making a tour with racing bikes going 30-40km/h on flat terrain you have to ride your e-bike as a motorless bike, only uphill or against headwinds you will benefit from the motor.

Another sector are mountainbikers that pedal uphill and than go down. You need a lightweight bike for that, especially downhill a 4kg motor in the hub is not recommended by most of those people.

I'm not sure about that "7 speed", but if it means 7 gears (gear hub?) this is neither suitable for a racing bike nor for a mountain bike, both sectors where weight counts to many people...

I also do not understand your "strong opposition". If you don't like it, simply don't buy it...

If you are overweight (I don't know that), this does not automatically mean that all others are, too...

There are many different concepts out there:

This for example is a new racing bike from Haibike that assists up to 45km/h with a Bosch drive, but you need a license plate for that over here, if you want to stay legal:

UB_haibike_2014_e-bike_e-rennrad_HAIBIKE_XDURO_RACE.jpg.3593922.jpg


http://www.elektrobike-online.com/news/e-bikes-und-pedelecs/haibike-xduro-race-2014-serien-e-rennrad-mit-bosch-performance-line-motor.857246.410636.htm

This is a 2000W "bike", but if you would use it on the street you have to drive it as an (electric) motorcylce, no matter the pedals:

UB-Eurobike-2013-conway-e-rider-extreme-und-street-IMG_0277-e-rider-street-links.jpg
 
I'm happy to open my mind, but not so far as it falls right out. There's bugger all tanglible benefit to one of the q100 builds you and I ride daily, except you blow a heap of extra dough.
We did the exercise locally, even Kepler concedes if he did it again he'd probably just do it in aluminium.

You need to go back and read the OP. This is about an asshole vendor posing as a customer trashing the BH NEO. Not about weight weenies.
 
Anencephalus, Do I need to publish a picture of a motorbike for you to quit being a dick?
(Sorry d8veh, that was not directed at you - I have a lot of credence for your builds)
 
ok, the current argument as i see it: light weight, low power ebikes have every right to exist, but excessive focus on weight reduction puts us at risk of alienating the general population, much in the same way as lycras.
i will continue to be impressed by the super light weight, and impressively performing bikes, but will not spend $3000 plus on one. as a niche, they make sense. but for us normal commuters? theyre silly (same with the stupid fast bikes, as much as i want one :mrgreen:).
 
Perfect summary to me.

There's ok carbon frames for a few hundred bucks on cyclingdeal.com.au.

I'm going to build one up for a laugh somewhere in my next few builds, and ebay it. But give the margin to medecins sans frontier. Might as well do some good out of it. I notice that invisitron hasn't been trademarked in australia. See what I'm planning there. :mrgreen:

Might put the batteries in a backpack to prove my point about overall system weight versus bike weight only.
 
Well Reef can put stickers on and make shill claims via other websites. But it looks like they got themselves into a commodity market regardless.
Ooops. Price check.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric-Bike-Annad-26-Mountain-/121161653230?pt=AU_Cycling_New_&hash=item1c35cc1bee
and
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric-Bike-Annad-26-Mountain-/121161653230?pt=AU_Cycling_New_&hash=item1c35cc1bee
 
You have to be careful when comparing these bikes. Annad make two versions. One has top spec components like air forks ans Shimano Deore XT. The other has much cheaper componentslike Suntour forks and Shimano Altus. That Ebay one is the cheaper version and so is the Reef Invisitron. You can get the top spec one from Annad for about the same price.
 
Reef owns/has a 'bike factory'?

I'm thinking not.
 
d8veh said:
t3sla said:
Dev8h if your at eurobike today on the test course check it out apparently they have a prototype at the show :cool:
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I'm not going to Eurobike, but my colleague is there, and he has a sample of the Keyde motor system on test He'll be bringing that sample to me to test in a couple of weeks. He confirmed again that the motor packs a big punch for its size.

Those Reef bikes (Annad) are good bikes, some of them use top spec components, and their weight claims are true. With such a small motor, you can't expect it to pull like a MAC. They're more for regular sports cyclists that want a bit of help on the hills, or to maintain a higher average speed. It's a different concept to what most people on this forum are used to.

If you're a regular club cyclist, you wouldn't have any trouble getting 100km out of a 300wH battery because you'd be providing 95% of the power, so the range claims made by Reef would also be true if they provided a context for them.

What's disappointing is that without context, someone could end up very disappointed if he bought that bike on the basis of the claims, and was expecting to cruise around at 20mph for 100km without any pedal effort. They're serious bikes for serious cyclists, so Reef should make a serious description of what they are, and then they'd have a lot more credibility and support.
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I agree, the specs are possible if people are looking for 'assistance' instead of moped action and you're riding it like a sports bike in the aero position. Most of the lycra types interested in electrics aren't looking for electric mopeds, they're looking for assistance with hills/wind/etc on a sporty bike and this bike fits the bill.

I will say, however, all the glowing reviews in this thread are a bit suspicious. With at least 5 positive reviews, you'd expect at least one of them to come from an established member with a bit more than 5 posts. Not saying that the bike isn't a "great bike", but I would take the reviews with a spoonful of skepticism.

Btw, proxy IPs from all around the world are bought and sold in the "black hat market". They're pretty cheap if you're a business looking to push a $3000 product. :wink:
 
swbluto said:
I agree, the specs are possible if people are looking for 'assistance' instead of moped action and you're riding it like a sports bike in the aero position. Most of the lycra types interested in electrics aren't looking for electric mopeds, they're looking for assistance with hills/wind/etc on a sporty bike and this bike fits the bill.
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Yes I agree, you would have to look like a sport rider and if anyone picked one up and thought it was pretty heavy and found out you had electric assist they would certainly call out cheater where as my not so stealthy bikes are pretty obvious and I couldn't care what sport riders think cause i'm riding to get to a place or do some chores and not for training for a race
 
when it comes to this thread, i keep my tub-o-skepticism close at hand.
the phrase "pics or it didnt happen" also seem fitting here.
 
On my aerodynamic recumbent, when I'm going for maximum distance, I routinely get 4wh/mi with hills, wind and all. Assuming this bike has 240 wh (24v 10ah battery?), I could easily get 60 miles or around 100 km and I'm a pretty untrained bike rider (My bike's been out of commission too much for me to be 'fit', lol). I see people routinely achieving 20-25 mph on their road bikes over long distances on the bike paths, so I don't doubt that a trained cyclist could push this bike far. Also, there's quite a few trained cyclists that zoom past me on the hills, lol. (granted, I was carrying cargo and relying mostly on my own power, but some of them know how to book it.)
 
Indeed it has no new magic. The keyde uses the same motor format we all use. Call it a detuned q100 lite version.

I did recently follow Kepler and Adrian on their friction drives for 108km - Kep had his carbon framed bike. I think he carried only 200 watt-hours that day with the Gloworm crew alongside. Miserly watt hours as Kepler was pretty much pedalling most of the time. But when he hit the power he disappeared like a point on the horizon.

I still know every freewheeling ebike can claim a 100km range in the marketing hype. And bolt on some carbon forks for sucker factor. But the Reef is just a poor anaemic cousin to the friction driven carbon bikes.
 
Okay, I just checked out Annad's and Reef's website ... I have no idea how reliable or how well these bikes are built. Let alone how much power is in that tiny hub. Keep in mind the new Specialized turbo is only hovering around 250 also. But seriously, someone (that is NOT a poser) really needs to post some real life test ride and review.

However, if this thing does prove out ... it will be one of the most stealth looking ebikes I've seen. Which is very nice for me personally, cause I do like that stealth commuter look. Only other bike on the market here in the States that comes close for with stealth integration is the Faraday ... which is beautiful in it's own rights.
 
I'm confident I could achieve that bikes claimed range. If for some of that it had working e-assist, it would be handy but not critical.
 
Lamdog said:
But seriously, someone (that is NOT a poser) really needs to post some real life test ride and review.
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I tested the rear Keyde kit that they use in the Annad bike. I really wanted it to be good. When it worked, it was good. It gave a lot of torque for such a small motor. These are the problems we had:

- The PAS was OK at first, but after only a few miles something changed so that the power didn't come until about 5 revolutions of the crank.

- There was a delay in the power stopping after stopping pedalling. Without brake switches, this was very annoying.

- There's a temperature sensor in the motor. When it gets warm, the power is reduced to a very low level until the motor cools down. This happened on every hill, so power was cut half-way up the hill, which was also very annoying.

- After a couple of hundred km, the motor went bang and jammed, so it went back to Keyde.

All the above was over a year ago. Keyde are still in business, and I guess that they're continuously developing their products, so maybe they're OK now. The best source of information on them is from the German Pedelecs forum.
 
Reef Invisitron. I think the Red Skull had one of those. There was this Allied convoy carrying relief supplies and of course some constitutional scholars to help save Europe, with the Red Skull laughing maniaclly as he aimed the Reef Invisitron into the uncharted waters before them.

And then; Here came Captain America. And of course, Bucky. . . .

Some things just convey and image of vaporware.
 
i use the same motor - keyde, rear, 33V Version, "overvolted" to 37Volt - in my Trike...

you can see, how it moves around with girlfriend driving it..
i follow with my own Bike, no motor installed

the freewheeling-sound you here from time to time is from mine bike, the friction-freewheel of the keyde is absolut noiseless -> beautiful

here the Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oafh3T9jY0o

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oafh3T9jY0o[/youtube]

the numbers you can see now and then on top of the video shows you, which of the 5 modes are used..

the tacho shows the speed - i think you notice, its km/h and not mp/h ;)

we use the our motors for assistance, not as motorcycles.. of course there are stronger motors - but for me thats not the point of driving a pedelec/pedel-assist bike

for that, the motor - normaly i drive it bymyself - has seen 2times more kilometers switched off than switched on...

the beautiful thing: the motor ads about 1.5kg to the normal bike (you safe the weight of the regular rear hub)
so my trike weights no 20,5kg instead of 19kg without motor

battery: most time i use a 10s2p-Battery, which weights only 900 Gramms and is very tiny... thats about 140Wh..
enough for about 40km

with 360Wh-Battery my girlfriend an me make tours about 100km
and if the tour is longer, you just use the motor not that often, and its also no problem

as said: the electric-setup is so light, that you can use your bike still as a normal bike..

thats the thing i miss on most other motors.. yes.. they may have 500Watt, 1000WAtt, 1500Watt --> thats not what i want..
with such high poweroutput your own power is degraded to worth-like-nothing..

to finisch: yes, with the keyde i have normale 2-3Wh/km powerusage
sounds not much.. but as you can see on the video: my girlfriend normaly never exceeds the 30km/h with that bike.. with motor it looks different

hope the motor will last 1-2 years, if it fails, i think i will buy another one..
 
oh:
forgot to say:
i have the old version with block-commuted controller (do you say it this way in english)
still you can maybe hear it on the video: the motor is not realy loud

meanwhile there is a new controller-version (iam not sure if it is then also in the motor included or a extern controllern) with sinus-commutation
that makes the motor more quiet
 
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