Rocky Mountain Element MTB 26" + Crystalyte Crown

[ck90]

Hey!

I have been thinkering with building an electrical bike for over a year now, after talking to a coworker who where considering buying an "of the shelf" e-bike, we actually went to a store to test the Bosch e-bikes today, which were pretty cool. BUT I want to make my own. It really doesn`t need to be rational at all as I dont intend to use it as a daily driver, more like a crazy / insane project.

I have gotten the impression that the Crystalite "the Crown" ("Black Lightning (high speed): 120 kph Wind") @96volt.
Could be pretty cool.
I actually intend on running it on 12s lipo / 48,2volt which should give around 60km/h top speed and 3,75kW of power, which i consider more than enough, and cool to have the ability to rewire the batteries to get higher top speed at a lighter time if wanting to do some top speed testing

I was thinking of running 40c 6s1p 5000mAh hobbyking in a 2s4p configuration for a pack output of 50v 20Ah 0,88kWh battery that in reality is unlimited when it comes to amp draw (800A max) which is not important as I will only use like 10% of this). Later on I can rewire to 4s2p for 100Volt if needed, and i could add more batteries for longer runtime, but I think that would be a good place to start

I was wondering if I could use a Castle Creations HV160 speedcontroller / ESC for this motor (sensorless)? It is rc-grade 50v max with 160Amp continous (i think i can electronically cap it at 75amps to not overheat the motor as well (if im not mistaken, i think this is possible to do thru included software).

Will a rc grade sensorless controller work with a Crystalite hubmotor?

Should i go for FWD or RWD (FWD seems easier).

What dimmensions should I check on my bike to see if a motor would physically fit the bike?


Edit: I checked the specs of the latest year model of "my bike" and the specs are:
REAR HUB
STAN'S 3.30TI DISC / 6 PAWL FREEHUB / 142 X 12MM AXLE

My bike is not a 2014 like the specs above it is more like 2000 model, but I hope and suspect that axle specs will be the same on mine, if that is the case, which crystalite motor that is powerfull would fit?

 

[amberwolf]

I have gotten the impression that the Crystalite "the Crown" ("Black Lightning (high speed): 120 kph Wind") @96volt.
Could be pretty cool.
I actually intend on running it on 12s lipo / 48,2volt which should give around 60km/h top speed and 3,75kW of power, which i consider more than enough, and cool to have the ability to rewire the batteries to get higher top speed at a lighter time if wanting to do some top speed testing

you may want to read the various threads about that motor. I don't know that you could do that much power on it very long or very often, depending on cooling/etc.

I was wondering if I could use a Castle Creations HV160 speedcontroller / ESC for this motor (sensorless)?

You will probably want to read about RC type controllers and their use on ebikes, there are a lot of build threads that have used them and/or attempted to use them; those threads will tell you about hte problems with doing this.

Should i go for FWD or RWD (FWD seems easier).

You may want ot read up on the various medium and higher-power bike threads to see which one will be better for your purposes, and the mechanical things you will need to do for each one.

What dimmensions should I check on my bike to see if a motor would physically fit the bike?

Axle shoulder width vs dropout width
axle flat size vs dropout size
axle diameter vs dropout depth
rim diameter and width vs frame
tire diameter and width vs frame
brake type and size

 

[ck90]

Thank you so much for your informative reply, but do i understand you correct if your impression is that crystalyte does`nt deliver the goods? It wouldn`t surprise me, but is that your impression?

 

[amberwolf]

That depends on your definition of "the goods", and which model you get.

There are many models made by Crystalyte, some no longer made and some just starting up, etc. Pretty much every kind has been used and tested and abused by someone here on ES. A lot of reading by you will be required to see what I mean.

There is also a simulator on http://ebikes.ca/simulator that has a few of the CL motors in it already. You can experiment with them in that simulator to see if they'll do what you want.



I've got an HSR3548 in 20" on the back of CrazyBike2, and it's ok, but the wheel it came in was junk and had to be rebuilt from scratch, basically. (first the spokes disintegrated and then the rim pulled apart after the spokes were fixed...now it's in a "real" rim and even using half the same used spokes it still works). It's cover screws have had consistent problems migrating off, even with blue loctite.

It's only on a 48V (58V charged) pack with a 40A controller, so it's not being pushed as hard as some have done. I can get it fairly warm, but not hot, with that, but I'm not hitting it with much power for very long, and even when I do at startup from a stop I've got another differnet motor (9C 2810 26", also on 40A controller) in front to help get me started quicker than it can do by itself.


The only thing I can say as a general impression about CL motors is that based on various ES threads, some of htem are pretty decent motors, *when* CL is actually doing any QC....

 

[ck90]

Which hubmotor brand / motor would you recommend? I would like a bike that could do well over 40km/t more like 55km/t+ top speed.
I am willing to pay a premium for quality.

(I will be running it on atleast 50v and unlimited amps, but im willing to do up to 100v)

 

[amberwolf]

You'll need to read around hte forum for people's builds that do what you wnat yours to do, and see what they used.

 

[ck90]

Yeah ok, cool I`ve been making a list to start with at least #workInProgress, most are english but some are jibberish in my own language, maybe someone can have some use of it

 

[motomech]

I'm somewhat confused as to what you are proposing, are you talking about mounting a hugely powerful motor on this bike?

http://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?year=2000&brand=Rocky+Mountain&model=Element+Race

I have a 2003 Edge and while it's a jewel of a bike, I don't think those frames are suitable for that kind of motor.
The drop-outs are non-removable, made of alloy and very lite weight, Also, it's a XC frame, a very quick steerer.
And then there is the issue of the element not having hyd. disc brakes.
Really, you need to start with a later model of a down-hill bike with a thru frt. axel and more layed-back steering geometry.

 

[ck90]

I'm somewhat confused as to what you are proposing, are you talking about mounting a hugely powerful motor on this bike?

http://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?year=2000&brand=Rocky+Mountain&model=Element+Race

I have a 2003 Edge and while it's a jewel of a bike, I don't think those frames are suitable for that kind of motor.
The drop-outs are non-removable, made of alloy and very lite weight, Also, it's a XC frame, a very quick steerer.
And then there is the issue of the element not having hyd. disc brakes.
Really, you need to start with a later model of a down-hill bike with a thru frt. axel and more layed-back steering geometry.

Motomech, thx for the informative reply, but what about this one?

Its a Rocky Mountain SOLO CXR (cycle cross!?! or something)

I have that bike (the element belongs to my father).


Could i use the solor CXR?
After getting you guys input, i am leaning towards a 750Watt Falco powertrain RWD like this one:

(that is btw a 500w falco).

How is the dropout angle on the Rocky Mountain Solo in regards to compatability with a e-bike conversion like falco kit?
The pictured bike is identical to mine, is the dropout compatible?

anotger dropout picture from identical frame:

Can you guys see from the last picture if it is disc brake compatible (rear) it seems like there is a mount for a caliper there.

 

[ck90]

Update:
I bought / signed up for the Falco 350w full speed campaign through Kickstarter. (1095$ for complete kit with 400Wh "tesla/panasonic battery").

I really hope that the kickstarter campaign is succesfull so they will reach production but i am a little worried, they have raised only $28,702
pledged of $100,000 goal. And with only 20 days left (deadlline is 1. october 2014).

What do you guys think? is it likely or unlikely that the campaign will reach the 100 000$ goal?

With that being said, regardless of this I will still build a more powerfull bike (but money is a little scarce right now, so it`s just a question of time) my dream would be to use a 10kW (continuous rated with 15kW burst) Scorpion motor, but I currently dont know where to get sprockets or pulleys that i can mount on the 10mm motor axle to gear down the motor (I would need close to 100:1 reduction gear to make it usable, and that would be the biggest challenge.

This would of course require a totally different and new bike or something that would not break due to the powerful forces.

Does anyone know where you can get sprockets/pulleys for 10mm (non-keyed) axle?