Rolling chassis to sell?

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

I have been searching long and hard for the "perfect" (ideal) bike to setup with electric systems. To that end, I bought several bikes (that I am not revealing yet) to convert. These all have ample room in the frame, disc brakes, and great clearance for the electric system (left side chain, etc).

I was innitially planning to to build them into complete turn-key electric bikes for sale. However, that takes alot of time that I do not have right now. So, I am considering setting up a few bikes with the drive system installed with all mechanicals and sell them that way and let the customer deal with the electric wiring, battery, etc.

What are your thoughts? Is this a good idea?

Matt

 

[kevo]

Matt,

I think it is an excellent idea. Many of us lack the mechanical skills, knowledge, time and tools to adapt even the very well executed kits. Of course shipping and post sales support may complicate things but at least the complications of battery procurement and warranty are avoided. I hope some of your bike models are two wheelers. Can't wait to see your choices!

 

[richmpdx]

I also think it is a great idea for the same reasons as expressed in Kevo's post. It is the mechanical stuff that is the challenge for me. So a bike with the drive system set up would be perfect. Also interested in a 2 wheel bike.

Rich

 

[recumpence]

I have two bikes that I am looking to convert right now. They are both two wheeled, non-recumbent bikes.

I will start threads on them once there is something to show.

Matt

 

[liveforphysics]

I also think it's a great idea.

 

[Lenk42602]

Matt,

Seems interesting. Need a beta tester?

I'm Still working on my chassis based around a hub motor - final phase right now before powder coat. Had I known that it would have taken me this long, I probably would have been in the market for a pre-built system.

More and more, I have been spending time in the non-hub motor section - starting to see that this route provides the best power/weight potential. Although I have not yet assembled my bike yet, it will be heavy, and I fear she will feel less like a crazy powered bicycle and more like a kinda fun steel chassis'd machine....

Nonetheless, now that I can better appreciate how long it takes to design, develop, and fabricate stuff, I highly doubt I would attempt to develop a proprietary non hub motor drive system. There is certainly enough support on the forum to derive something from current builds, but man, I just wanna ride a fast, light ebike! I would like to be able to take the best of what modular components are available and build with them. If the chassis/drive system are integrated, I would consider this a "modular" component in itself and add what remains to complete the build. Would save HEAPS of time, and allow me to enjoy actually riding the bike.

Short of building a frame from absolutely nothing, Timma's work strikes me as the pinnacle of an optimized, integrated, efficient, simple system with power/weight ratio in mind.

Here on the forum, you have electronics techies, metal fabricators, designers, inventors, engineers and just plain geniuses... Seems to me the folks with the superior machines exhibit a well rounded assortment of all these characteristics (or at least avail themselves to those that possess them) in their capacity to create. Your idea fills some gaps for the less fortunate whatever reason.

The chassis would have to have curb appeal though. feel free to pm me pics....

Len

 

[Kurt]

My understanding is they are pre-existing brand name bikes/chassis. At this stage you are testing to find a good candidate for a RC powered ebike rolling chassis. Not sure if some have misunderstood this as building the chassis from scratch.

The perfect ebike to me is a bike that is powered by electricity and having the least compromise of the function of the original bike. I feel the RC drives can do this well. I went for a 10km non powered ride with by bike yesterday simply by removing the battery pack. The dead weight of the drive system, motor is so minimal and the friction of the belt drive. The lack of noise from the sprag free wheel pulley were all so little the bike functioned without compromise.A have your cake and eat it situation I think.

I understand there were some high costs involved in gettign the Belt drive option off the ground. I do feel if the costs could be re cooped with some volume sales. The end product would be improved significantly.

I guess it all depends on what people are looking for from a ebike.

I am trying to get my head around what people will be offered with this rolling chassis. If its just the reduction drive bolted to a frame and sprocket bolted to rear wheel hub. I am not sure that that offers anyone much over buying the drive from you and bolting it on to that particular frame them self. If they cant tighten up two hex nuts and 6 hex nuts to the rear sprocket them self. Then they will most likely struggle finishing the bike of and mounting the battery's to the frame and so on.

I'm thinking you would have to provide a rolling chassis that has a integrated battery box-mount. Just as an example FFR trike's if they were to sell there trike with everything mounted up minis the battery's, motor and controller they would still have something useful to offerer. There battery enclosure is a big key feature over a naked KMX. People could then bolt up there own motor and fill the enclosure with amount, configuration and brand of lipo they like. Wire it all into the pre installed plugs and switches that are mounted to the enclosure and they are good to go.

not being responsible for motor,controller,battery's and wiring is a good Idea like you said its time consuming and some times a individuals choice, You will need to offer something special in the rolling frames like a battery and controller enclosure to attract people.

Anyhow I am keen to see what rolling chassis you have come up with and how it all turns out.

Kurt

 

[mdd0127]

Coming from someone that just spent a week making the correct mounts and modifying the reduction drive to fit it to a bike, it isn't as simple as just bolting the drive on :wink:

I had to cnc motor mounts that clamped to the frame and had to narrow the q-factor of the drive while also installing a 219 driver sprocket and csk25 on it. It isn't always easy stuff.

I'm sure there a lot of people out there that could put a nice battery box together but would have a hard time getting frame mounts for the reduction drive made and chain lines figured out. I'm also sure that someone will step up and offer battery box kits too if this becomes popular.

I'm developing a kit for Kona Shonky dirt jumpers, and while they're not the most practical bike in the world, big kid bmx is awesome and they're a blast to cruise around town on! I've been talking to potential customers and they want something they can bolt on that contains the batteries, controller, motor and reduction all in one unit so that's what I'm shooting for. I'm still not sure if I can make this e-bike thing profitable without sourcing garbage from China though. The bike I'm working on now has $3,500 in parts on it and at least 100 hours of labor and it's a steel framed hardtail......... I guess we'll see if the public is able to see the value and reasoning for pricing if/when it sells.

 

[recumpence]

OK, here is my thought;

I get alot of emails asking what specific bike to buy to convert. I have been searching for just that bike. I have a couple in my garage that are nearly perfect in many ways (production bikes I bought).

I would like to setup basic bikes that are just a drive system bolted to the frame with all mechanicals installed, ready to go. Then sell bikes that are setup with a TIG welded battery box too, though no electronics installed. Lastly, I will be setting up a few complete bikes ready to ride.

I just installed some suspension forks and other bits on one of my project bikes this afternoon. I will start a thread on that bike soon.

Matt

 

[Kurt]

I'm sure there a lot of people out there that could put a nice battery box together but would have a hard time getting frame mounts for the reduction drive made and chain lines figured out.

I've been talking to potential customers and they want something they can bolt on that contains the batteries, controller, motor and reduction all in one unit so that's what I'm shooting for.

From what you have said it looks like people want a package that houses the battery, controller and other electrical. Getting that right can really set the bike off for balance, convenience and over all finished look. I guess what I am getting at is I see a lot of very well finished bikes on the mechanical side and then the battery,wiring and controller look like a after thought.

I agree that if there is any custom machining or modification to the drive to be done to make the drive work. Then that its beyond most people. But if your selling a drive for a particular brand of bike then there wouldn't be a need for this modification as it would have already been made to mount to this frame . It then would be as simple as bolting it on.

It dose sound like it will take a lot of the decision making out of the equation. If you have picked the frame for people and they know it will work. A bit of standardising is good as you can develop more and more over time and offer all kinds of options based on the base line factory frame.

Kurt

 

[flyinmonkie]

Hey Matt,

Really looking forward to what you come up with. Bike selection is quite important for a conversion to and ebike and can effect what components you use. So having a couple of makes and or models to suggest would be very handy.

The biggest issue I see with making a system (drive, mounts, box for batteries, controller and other electronics) is that there is no standard in making a bike. In fact most companies seem to use different size of shape tubes just to stand out from the rest of the crowd. Also, frame geometry changes with every model and year of bike. This all makes it very difficult to come up with a one size fits all kit.

I think a battery/electronics box is really the last missing piece of the puzzle. We now have a few really nice motor mounts/reduction drives. We have a 2 speed gear box, or ways to drive through the bike's gears. And, most of these are mountable in a variety of positions and ways. There isn't a simple battery box solution for a 2 wheeled bike. Something like what FFR trikes has done for tadpoles would be great. I'm hoping my new battery box is something that is suitable to many 2 wheeled bikes and help make mounting batteries a lot easier and safer. I haven't decided on whether or not I will sell it, as it has been very expensive to make so far.

Any way, I think it is a good idea Matt and am excited to see what you have in mind.

Clay

 

[wheelbender6]

Vendors for gas assisted bikes are doing something similar. They sell bikes that they know their motor kits will fit without problems. They call them "Motor Kit Ready". I think you have a good idea.

 

[recumpence]

I think I need to, not only find the ideal bike to add a system to, but, to make my system more user friendly.

Matt

 

[etard]

What kind of bike are we talking? For what kind of riding style? Full suspension, Dirtjumper, Cruiser? I don't have money for it, just wondering...

 

[recumpence]

The two bikes I have here to mess with are a Rans Zenetik and a Cannondale Hooligan.

I am looking, mainly, for bikes that have a bit of a cool factor to them or a universal appeal.

I will be posting pictures as I have them.

Matt

 

[voicecoils]

The Hooligan is an awesome looking bike and reasonably priced.

I've wanted to convert one myself with a hubmotor or 2 stage drive of yours. A cromo clone would be even more appealing to me. Looks cool and will bring out the BMX kid in lots of adults.

The RANS doesn't excite me. I think if going for a 'wide appeal', then something closer to MTB or roadie bikes would be a better starting point.

 

[adrian_sm]

Interesting choice of bikes. Lots of room in the rear triangle for the drive.

Rans Zenetik

Cannondale Hooligan

 

[recumpence]

Yup, those are the bikes. My Zenetik Pro is yellow. So, it looks just like that picture.

My Hooligan is white and is sporting a brand new White Brother's RC80 fork and a thrudbuster seatpost. Those additions, alone, have really awakened that bike.

I agree about it bringing out the BMX kid in many of us. That is part of the reason I bought it.

I plan on installing a drive on it (a new style drive I have not shown anyone yet) and some high output lipo.

Matt

 

[REdiculous]

Neither thrill me. I think the Rans Zenetik is especially ugly. The Hooligan looks ok but it's not jumping out at me. I just did a quick search on the Hooligan and see an ad for one on ebay for $850...that's about twice what I'd be willing to pay.

I'd rather see what you can do with a budget bike like the Diamondback Nitrus.

 

[Kurt]

Neither thrill me. I think the Rans Zenetik is especially ugly. The Hooligan looks ok but it's not jumping out at me. I just did a quick search on the Hooligan and see an ad for one on ebay for $850...that's about twice what I'd be willing to pay.

I'd rather see what you can do with a budget bike like the Diamondback Nitrus.

If your going to spend $2000+ on the conversion to a high spec RC ebike . Then $850 isn't a over spec bike to me. I know I wouldn't put this spec system a wallmart bike.That said I agree the Rans Zenetik is a bit quirky for my tastes to. But the Cannondale Hooligan looks fine.

Kurt

 

[Miles]

I've always thought the Rans crank-forwards would be great for conversion. I think I would prefer the Fusion ST, though: http://www.ransbikes.com/Fusion_ST-N.htm

Dahon Hammerhead would also be a good candidate: http://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2011&Brand=Dahon&Model=Hammerhead&Type=bike Tons of room in the frame....

 

[recumpence]

The Hooligan on ebay is a Hooligan 3 with lefty rigid fork. The Hooligan 8 is $650 new. You can find them on Craigslist for $450 to $475.

Rans ranks forward bikes look ugly until you ride one. They are the most confortable bikes I have ever ridden, period.

What I am looking for are bikes that are easy to convert (correct frame layout and enough room) and have an appeal to various groups of people. The locals who have money for a bike like this are older and want confort. The other group I hear from are young at heart and like the agressive and small bikes like the Hooligan. The final group are the full suspension guys. Those bike conversions are crazy expensive, though. But, yes, I have one of those in the works too. :wink:

Matt

 

[flyinmonkie]

Matt,

They are some interesting choices. I'm not sure about the visual appeal of either of them, but that is just me. Everyone is different.

If I were going for a comfortable bike that appeals to a wide variety and especially the baby boomer's, I would go with a K2 easy street series. It is a pedals forward design reminiscent of the cruisers they rode as kids. When they came out, I was working at a bike shop and we sold out of them. K2 actually sold out of them throughout the US. It is a great bike. Not as much room between the seat tube and the rear wheel, but more than a lot of other bikes.



As for a more aggressive bike, I would go with a dirt jump frame and go with 24" wheels. That gives you the room between the seat tube and the wheel to mount a motor or part of the drive. It also makes the bike feel a little smaller.

I really look forward to seeing what you do with the 2 bikes you have chosen though. I'm sure they will be solid builds.

Clay

 

[Miles]

Pity that Burro bikes are no longer in production.....

 

[Whiplash]

Personally I don't understand the "goofy looking BMX/MTB bike mutants." Not to offend anyone, I just don't get the look. I think if you are planning on selling these main stream, that will not work. Now here on the forum, maybe, since we are all dying for a frame that will hold a battery and motor combo at any cost. BUt I for one would not ride something like that... but that's just me. again, not disrespect intended, just honesty...