Saftey - Loud Bicycle Horn - Bike Car Horn for commuters

[Neiler106]

I wanted to share this with everyone as I had a commuter not too long ago and while I was very visible, I had no audible saftey aside from a dinky squeeze honker on my bars.

The psychology is simple, people reflexive break when they hear a car horn, regardless if they can identify the source of the sound first. This guy invented a binary note horn for bikes that sounds just like a car. This may have saved me from being hit by a distracted driver if I had it on my bike.

It has rechargeable lithium based batteries and that means we might even be able to incorporate it with our batteries... maybe... possibly?
http://www.loudbicycle.com/

Before proceeding into the intersection I wiggled my handlebars back and forth to make my bike light more visible. I was going straight and he was facing me and turning left with no turn indicator flashing. I was hit at relatively low speed on my front left side at about 9pm last June.

I was very visible as was my bike but I had no way to make my self more audible to warn the sleep-weary driver and avoid the accident.

Imagine if I had honked a horn causing the driver to reflexively brake in time:

 

[wayover13]

Might not the job of powering an auto horn be better accomplished by super/ultra capactitor(s) than by batteries? From what I'm reading they're much lighter and they recharge far more quickly. In fact, reading this post has me thinking about heading to a junkyard to get a salvage auto horn, then looking into what sort of ultra/super capacitor or array I'd need to power it.

 

[cal3thousand]

Good idea. But it seems any modification that we do on our own ebikes end up being good mods if produced for the average person.

Anyone trying to get rich? Make one of the modifications found here at a consumer level and you could be in the dough

 

[spinningmagnets]

ES member Teklektik used a DC/DC converter to power 12V lights and horn from a car parts catalog. Fortunately he listed the actual part numbers for anyone who wanted to copy the idea. He took the time to research the best parts, and he posted a fairly comprehensive system.

http://www.electricbike.com/custom-build-gallery-teklektiks-dual-motor-yuba-mundo/

 

[jonathanl]

Hi everyone, this is Jonathan here the inventor. We were funded through Kickstarter about a year ago and we are still working through production to get this made for people like you! Once we get version one out the next logical step is to design one that will integrate with electric bicycle batteries so you won't need to charge the horn separately from your E-BIke bike.
We looked into using capacitors, definitely a great way to get 10 Amps of power, but we found some special batteries that were sufficient. If you are looking to make your own you can get some that are designed for RC airplanes (you need a special charger though).
Happy biking!

 

[999zip999]

Welcome Jonathan where are you ?

 

[gogo]

Hi everyone, this is Jonathan here the inventor. We were funded through Kickstarter about a year ago and we are still working through production to get this made for people like you! Once we get version one out the next logical step is to design one that will integrate with electric bicycle batteries so you won't need to charge the horn separately from your E-BIke bike.
We looked into using capacitors, definitely a great way to get 10 Amps of power, but we found some special batteries that were sufficient. If you are looking to make your own you can get some that are designed for RC airplanes (you need a special charger though).
Happy biking!

Do you have any plans to offer a 4-note version? I want a horn that drills right into the Buick-train-horn-recognition part of peoples' brains.

 

[Neiler106]

Johnathan,

Thank you for your interest in my post, and I must say that I'm quite flattered you found me and reached out. I'm a firm believer in bicycle safety and today's distractions on the road have too many people with their eyes off the road. Safety vests, lights, and reflectors can only do so much but your Loud Bicycle Horn is the key to audible safety and communication for bicyclists.

My father is in the middle of building his all chrome beach cruiser e-bike for a 20 mile loop through the beaches and farmers markets. I will be gifting him one of your Loud Bicycle Horns so what happened to me, hopefully doesn't happen to him.

Happy riding to you too!

 

[MattyCiii]

I'm a backer!

I'll take pix and post comments (and probably video of the horn in use) when I receive mine.

Welcome Jonathan where are you ?

The Kickstarter page lists his location as Boston MA, but I swear I'd read somewhere Loud Bicycle was in Cambridge MA - which would put the company right where I spend most of my time. I can't wait till this product ships and I sure hope I get to meet the maker & shake his hand. I totally believe in the reasoning that when drivers hear a loud nearby honk, they break as fast as they can.

 

[sflorlando]

Cool!

 

[jonathanl]

Hey all!

Glad to be a part of this forum. I live near Somerville, work in Cambridge and tell the media that I'm from Boston to keep it simple for everyone. If you are nearby then say hello at the Boston-Bike party tonight! (Though I'll be on a hubway). Thanks for being a backer!
A 4-note horn would be cool, but our next steps will be shooting for a lighter-weight package (will slightly less volume and impact) but possibly able to fit the needs of more cyclists. There is a guy in England though who does make a 4-note air horn which is really impressive #TrafficDroid (@SonOfTheWinds on twitter). He's spoken about trying to commercialize it, but it doesn't look like he's moving very fast at that.

@Neiler106, thanks so much for your offer, we'll see what we can do once we ship, I'm sure there is something cool we could put on his bike. Actually posting it in a forum like this is a big help already.

Thanks for the discussion!

--Jonathan

 

[gogo]

I totally believe in the reasoning that when drivers hear a loud nearby honk, they break as fast as they can.

There was an add-on brake light for vehicles back in the late 70's that used a series of mercury switches positioned at different angles to measure braking force. The brake light then varied a pulse from 1 to 7.6 pulses/second. The Cyberlite inventor, John Voevodsky, a Psychologist, claimed the pulse rate stimulated the viewer's brain in a direct way that helped prevent rear-end collisions. The light even had a photoelectric circuit that changed the illumination level from 1200 to 400 candlepower according to day/night.

Here's the paper describing the science:
http://www.pnas.org/content/57/3/688.full.pdf

An excerpt that pertains to horns:
"Parenthetically, a rapid change of environment such as a sudden movement, a loud noise, a flash of light always attracts attention."

I wonder if a similar study of response to horn sounds exists and whether the number of notes makes a difference, and if response is innate or learned. What I do know is that if people were close enough to the front of my 1979 Buick's 4-tone horn it could make some people actually jump a few inches off the ground. Could have had something to do with volume, I suppose.

 

[granolaboy]

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Horn-Switch-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item417d2e040f&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Classic-Moto...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d15edf921&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/4000mAh-DC-1...US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item51b52cbaa1

 

[sflorlando]

Its great to have an actual successful kick starter on board our little forum.

We need to get Jonathan to start considering creating a kickstarter for a battery that is compatible with his horn and a large amount of bikes. Triangle shaped with an interesting but hip shape. Power the horn, add a light, turn signals, etc. Make it high amp capable, 36 volts for all these mid drives that are becoming popular, built in 12 volt port to power suppy to charge your iphone. Piggy back off the idea of powering your horn, but allow us to use them for other purposes. With his experience in the manufacturing world and dealing with battery manufacturers it could be successful.

That does seem to be the main obstacle in the ebike revolution. When someone creates some sort of large voltage decent amp hour battery pack will be the day that ebikes hit large adoption. We have a very creative group. we take whatever cells are out there, use this walmart frame, add this part and come up with something passable. There has been a lot of cannibalization of Dewalt, Makita, Greentime packs. If something came out with 36 volts and 10 ah in a compact usable form, where it is easy to serial and parallel them....man that would be something. Can you imagine telling your friends, ya the battery is easy we just buy this battery off this kickstarter, good voltage and big capacity. You want faster buy two of them. You want farther buy four of them.

Big battery and tool manufacturers can do it why cant we create something? Our buying power is small separately, but if we can group together buying a million cells and mass producing it, we can take that $600 price and bring it down quite a bit, half, more, who knows. Honestly if you saw a kickstarter with a 36 volt pack with superstars like LFP, Troy Rank, dr Bass recommending it we could have something cool. ...just tired of nothing available for us DIY crowd.

Sure we are getting there, but there is definitely a need for something friendlier and easier. We just need someone to hold the reigns and guide us as a group to something grander.

 

[gogo]

…
That does seem to be the main obstacle in the ebike revolution. When someone creates some sort of large voltage decent amp hour battery pack will be the day that ebikes hit large adoption. …

Naw, nobody including we here want to spend the $$$$.
http://www.hitachi-koki.com/equipment/products/li_ion_e/bl36200/bl36200.html

 

[jonathanl]

We need to get Jonathan to start considering creating a kickstarter for a battery that is compatible with his horn and a large amount of bikes. Triangle shaped with an interesting but hip shape. Power the horn, add a light, turn signals, etc. Make it high amp capable, 36 volts for all these mid drives that are becoming popular, built in 12 volt port to power suppy to charge your iphone. Piggy back off the idea of powering your horn, but allow us to use them for other purposes. With his experience in the manufacturing world and dealing with battery manufacturers it could be successful.

It sounds like you have a pretty good idea for a product there! I have my hands totally full with car horns right now but if you were interested in running a Kickstarter I would be glad to do what I can to help.

 

[jonathanl]

I wonder if a similar study of response to horn sounds exists and whether the number of notes makes a difference, and if response is innate or learned. What I do know is that if people were close enough to the front of my 1979 Buick's 4-tone horn it could make some people actually jump a few inches off the ground. Could have had something to do with volume, I suppose.

There has been a lot of research showing that car horns are one of the best sounds to deter accidents. I discuss the reasons and link to academic sources in this blog post:
http://loudbicycle.blogspot.com/2012/12/a-car-horn-on-your-bike-will-make-your.html

In the space of bicycle horns, I specifically discuss the advantages in a followup blog post:
http://loudbicycle.blogspot.com/2013/01/traditional-bike-horns-cannot-be-relied.html

 

[wayover13]

Just spotted after-market auto horns at Harbor Frieght Tools today. This is a dual-horn, hi/lo note combination, which is what seems to be the key to getting an auto-sounding horn. It was on sale at HFT today for $10. Kind of bulky but it's made mostly of plastic, so it's light weight. That in combination with the 12V LIon battery--linked to earlier in this thread--off ebay would set a guy back about $25. Then some sort of housing would have to be rigged. Looks perfectly within the competence of the average do-it-yourselfer.

 

[spisska]

Wouldn't something like this work a treat in this case?

Specs are:

* 89dB
* 400 Hz
* 12V DC
* 30mA
* 9.7g

Here is the full spec sheet.

Note: most piezo-electric buzzers are in the 2kHz-2.5kHz range. This is somewhat problematic, as sounds in this range are easy to generate at volume, but difficult for humans to echo-locate. That is: it takes less power to create sounds at high frequency (this, physically speaking, is why a contra-bass is so much bigger than a violin), but it's harder for human ears to determine the source location of the sound as frequency increases.

Have you ever heard of the Annoy-a-Tron? Now that you have heard of it, how many have you bought? I can give a personal testimonial that this is the greatest invention in all of history, if your goal is to drive your target to a crippling rage that takes weeks to build. This device works (i.e. annoys) on the principle that brief, high-pitched sounds are very, very difficult to locate.

The point is that 2.5kHz sounds like an electric buzzer; 400Hz sounds like a car or motorcycle horn. The former will make people check their pockets, the latter will make them jump out of the way.

200Hz will sound like large vehicle and 100 Hz will sound like a Mack Truck.

Remember that frequencies double: that is 800 Hz is an octave above 400Hz and an octave below 1600Hz.

Concert A is 440Hz, should you wish to tune ...