Savety: Electric Shock when touching frame

[DasDouble]

Hey guys,

in my school are a couple of people who like to laught about my E-Bike (at the moment a pedelec). I will have my Vector bike soon and want to ceep it safe against those idiots. My Pedelec got the first scratches and apple-juice attacks after like 3 weeks. I was really sad about that. Now I want to change my methodes ( :lol: ) and thought about an electric shock which they automaticelly get, when they are touching my bike / frame. I think its going to be really simple. You switch off your keys and the alarm is ready to go. The whole body of the frame is now electrically loaded and can´t go away because of the tires. Now, if someone touches the bike and is in contact with the ground, he will directly get an electric hit (yes, I know, thats a bit mean but they want to harm my electric baby^^).
What do you guys think about that? There are also some other shock alarms and movement alerts which are great, but which don´t do the "payback" for me. For shure I will get such an alarm too because they are really good. Also I will have to isolate the whole electric things inside, controller and everything, to be shure, not to harm my own electric components. Also the alarms is off, if you want to ride again, by turning the key switch back to "on".

-Elias

 

[themadhatter106]

I'd love to do this but I think the main reason people don't do it is because its easy to have someone accidentally zapped and you could be held accountable for this. What would happen if the chancellor of the university were to lean against your bike and get zapped?

What if someone with a pacemaker leans up against your bike and it causes his pacemaker to malfunction and he dies. I'm not sure about the laws in Germany but who is held accountable?

 

[DasDouble]

I'd love to do this but I think the main reason people don't do it is because its easy to have someone accidentally zapped and you could be held accountable for this. What would happen if the chancellor of the university were to lean against your bike and get zapped?

The chancellor of my school never walks on our motorcycle parking area but you are right. That´s a problem. But this will be just like a little kid which gets zapped by an electric fence = This will be the first, and the last time it touches this fence.^^ Also if the other motorcycle riders are too stupid not to touch other motorcycles by parking so then.. Their fault more or less.

What if someone with a pacemaker leans up against your bike and it causes his pacemaker to malfunction and he dies. I'm not sure about the laws in Germany but who is held accountable?

The shock won´t be that big that your pacemaker will stop I think. It will be just as big, as a normal, static load shock will be. I have never heared of a pacemaker stopping, because of a normal, natural static load. But still with just such "less" shocking-power you will feel quite uncomfortable. At least as much uncomfortable as you are not willing to touch it anymore. The laws will be a problem if it is too big. But also if you touch a normal car you can get a static load-shock. People will think that it´s normal hopefully. Maybe you better poste a letter on your bike which says "touching bike by own risk". I also thought about "Attention! Electric Shocking Danger!" or "Attention! High electricity" but forgott about it really quick because someone could call it "willing of harm other people" or something like that. Better you don´t wake up some angry dogs :|

 

[DasDouble]

If I do this, I will also have to look that nobody have to move my bike away, for example because Im blocking some parking spots or something like that. Will have to stand in a corner or something like that where normally no one goes. Also if they will argue that I did something wrong I will have the arguement with the motion-alarm which goes off if you are too near by the bike on a special distance.
If someone should die, you will have to pay for this, if you don´t have a super deluxe insurance

 

[chilledoutuk]

I think you need to use your brain instead of electrifying your bike which is very immature.

Parking a E-bike with motorbikes is not really clever as most motorbike owners are petrolheads. Instead park it with bicycles and you will most likely not get any grief.

Also park your bike somewhere near where its busy enough that people wont feel comfortable vandalizing without being seen.

If you put a rain cover over your bike that will protect your bike from liquid attacks and make it hard to people to know whos bike it is underneath.

Finally Electrifying your bike will not work as these people will then find ways to damage your bike especially after being shocked.

Best thing you could do is put a security camera on your bike and if someone vandalizes your bike give the evidence to the school and get them to discipline the culprit.

 

[dogman dan]

Enjoy jail when you get there. I'm sure what you want to do is highly illegal. Video of them messing with your bike could help.

 

[DasDouble]

I think you need to use your brain instead of electrifying your bike which is very immature.

Parking a E-bike with motorbikes is not really clever as most motorbike owners are petrolheads. Instead park it with bicycles and you will most likely not get any grief.

This has nothing to do with parking where motorized motorcycles are. The couple of People with motorcycles who are parking there have nothing against e-bikes. All the People who are like a danger for my bike do not even have a bike.

Also park your bike somewhere near where its busy enough that people wont feel comfortable vandalizing without being seen.

I already did that with my pedelec. Just right the teacher-parking place. Didn´t helped anything.

If you put a rain cover over your bike that will protect your bike from liquid attacks and make it hard to people to know whos bike it is underneath.

Thats a good idea I haven´t even thought about. Thanks.

Finally Electrifying your bike will not work as these people will then find ways to damage your bike especially after being shocked.

They will think it is a bug and won´t attack it in next time. They don´t want to harm my bike actually. They are more like trolling me by doing something with it. It´s more against me, than the bike at its self.

Best thing you could do is put a security camera on your bike and if someone vandalizes your bike give the evidence to the school and get them to discipline the culprit.

Good idea.

 

[DasDouble]

Enjoy jail when you get there. I'm sure what you want to do is highly illegal. Video of them messing with your bike could help.

Well thank you for wishing me this^^ You are right, that´s illegal, to do this. But that doesn´t really matter if I activate it just against those few People. I can promisse you that no one will get hurt or something. The shock won´t be as much as you would go directly to Police. Video could help, yeah. But a videocamera right next to a parking spot, especially not a one from the School would be a bit extream. Just tell me you some Things. The shock won´t be the first warning. At first if they go near the bike a normal Alarm will go off. Then after a few more seconds Standing near it a really, really loud Alarm with my horn will be activated. After all of that, if they still ignore all of this they will get in touch with the bike and will get the "payback" by the Little, Little shock. Im shure they won´t touch it after that anymore. Not because the shock is so hard. (Its a really really small shock, I promisse that) More because they are afraid of it that someone will see it how they activate the Alarm, and because they will think that the bike has a bug and the electricity has a fail.

If you are talking about jail: If you think as extream as that, you could theoretically get in jail because doing a electric-shock-joke / prank on doing something. Also no one will accidently get in touch with the bike because as I said it will stand somewhere where no one walks just randomly.

 

[Deafcat]

Go take some boxing lessons.

seriously, if they're picking on you and not your bike, I don't see how some ridiculous mad scientist defense systems are going to help your cause. Learn who to punch in the face instead, you can't go to jail if you're only 16 and yunno, NOT doing terrorist-y things like electrified traps.

 

[gogo]

Video is the way to go. A 360 degree cam, or two 180 degree cams would be good. If you can't afford a real camera, maybe fakes would be enough to deter them. A 'hidden' cam overlooking your bike might be another strategy.

Have your school newspaper do a story about your ebike and include your anti-vandal measures?

 

[Ykick]

"They are more like trolling me by doing something with it. It´s more against me, than the bike at its self."

Really? Judging by online "personality" and intense interest setting a "boobytrap" I would've never have guessed?

 

[MadRhino]

Someone being shocked by your bike, is likely to beat it with a baseball bat in revenge.

Buy an alarm lock, hide a GPS, park it where lots of people can see it...
Those are the best safety measures :wink:

 

[Leebolectric]

Install a "CritterCam" on the bike, you have power...record them...press charges for vandalism.

 

[DasDouble]

Go take some boxing lessons.

seriously, if they're picking on you and not your bike, I don't see how some ridiculous mad scientist defense systems are going to help your cause. Learn who to punch in the face instead, you can't go to jail if you're only 16 and yunno, NOT doing terrorist-y things like electrified traps.

At the moment im 17 years old. Its not like Im too weak or something. Rather the oppsite. Im just not the person who can take revenge on someone because of something. Especially by punching that person. With the electric thing I don´t want to hurt anyone. If you have a special power which I don´t know exactly enough at the moment to tell, you won´t get a shock like touching an electric fence! It is more like an unpleasant tingling in the fingers. It´s not that hard, that you would like to touch it again, but also not that week to want to stay touching it.

Buy an alarm lock, hide a GPS, park it where lots of people can see it...
Those are the best safety measures :wink:

I have already planed to do this, even before writing this forum.

Really? Judging by online "personality" and intense interest setting a "boobytrap" I would've never have guessed

Sorry, my english is just too bad. Could you write this again?

Someone being shocked by your bike, is likely to beat it with a baseball bat in revenge.

Nah, that´s not going to happen. People here are not like this. They will be more like "what the fu**?!" and go away or something.

 

[Deafcat]

for a 17, you're quite the expert on other folks reactions to a yet completely untested aversive apparatus!

seriously though, this is not a good idea. defend your property with legal, administrative, physical or verbal threats like the rest of people... shock-fences are for farm animals

 

[DasDouble]

Not of Folks reaction in gernerall. But more of the People who like to troll me^^

 

[Lurkin]

This is just a silly thread.

If your getting bullied, deal with that first. Go and talk to an adult about it and get help. This may include speaking to someone at the school or someone capable of meeting with the others kids parents. This can be surprisingly effective.

Violence to a bully is likely to only result in more violence back unless you do something really nasty, and they are afraid of you. In this case, you have become exactly like them. Fail. It can also land you in a world of pain if it's not as nasty as what they plan to do back to you. Increased contact with people of this kind, increases the likelihood of doing something stupid. Avoidance is the best way if you can.

Solving vandalism is usually about expensive preventative measures, or understanding the vandal. Kids vandalise things for fun, the nicer the item is, the better it is to vandalise. I remember watching it happen at school, one eggs the other on to do more and more and becomes a thoughtless, careless pack mentality.

Giving them an expensive, flash, nice looking new Vector build to attack is like a red rag to a bull and is asking for more trouble. Adding an electric shock signals how important it is to you - you are willing to flaunt the rules and risk being in trouble, just for their entertainment.

If these kids really are scumbags, its a matter of time before they realise there's more in it for them if they just steal it or parts off it. Electric shock or not, once determined, they will succeed. Reality check, there are people out there, everywhere, that are unfortunately like this. You have to use your brain to think ahead of them.

Why not go the other way, don't share this with them or give them the opportunity to steal it from you. Insuring it somehow would probably be a better idea although I imagine it would be pretty hard to get/expensive.

Options:
1. continue to take your first ebike to school.
2. take a really cheap unassisted bike to school.
3. park your bike somewhere away from school and walk the difference.
4. Ditch bikes and walk.

Btw, you are seriously, seriously underestimating the consequences of electric shocking someone... it's just a really bad idea.

 

[izeman]

oh man. i probably should switch to german. this reminds of all those german forums where you ask: how can i make my bike electric, and all the answers you get is: "loose weight and pedal", "you know it's illegal to go above 25km/h", "you need to wear a helmet", "does noone think about the children" ...

he asked about a buzzer for his bike. if it's illegal where he lives or want to use it? who knows? he must make this up with himself. and me getting a buzz from an electric fence has never brought any farmer to jail. put some warning stickers on it.

so here's my idea: there are little high voltage devices that you can put inside your car's engine compartment to keep away ferret and stuff that like to eat rubber stuff. maybe you can use that. the problem i see: you need AC not DC. and you need the current to run through the frame. so you need to make your bike frame a conducting wire.

maybe look for car safety stuff. i'm pretty sure i saw something like that as anti car theft device. maybe it's banned already ...

 

[dogman dan]

Well, bullying is hard to deal with. I was very badly bullied for most of my life, up to age 14. You know, I was the weird un athletic kid till puberty came and my body changed. I became a hippie about 3 years earlier than the others in my class. I was the "Painted Bird" ( You gotta read that book)

Happily for me, most of the bullies (the chicano gangs) get high. When they realized I could provide them some weed, that was the end of that. But there were still bullies that did not get high. One day one started up with me, after my body had changed. I got up off the bleachers in physical education class, dragged him down to the basketball court, and in front of about 100 people, stomped the shit out of him. That did end it once and for all.

Fighting back was not my style either. Remember, I was a peace loving hippie wearing love beads. But winning that fight did change a lot of peoples ideas of bullying me.

I still got bullied some by people that did not know me. If caught alone by the much older cowboys gang, they'd stomp you good. Or throw shit at you as you rode you bike. A full beer at 65 mph smarts! But those that knew me, either they wanted me to roll their weed into joints, or they knew I'd fight back.

 

[Lurkin]

oh man. i probably should switch to german. this reminds of all those german forums where you ask: how can i make my bike electric, and all the answers you get is: "loose weight and pedal", "you know it's illegal to go above 25km/h", "you need to wear a helmet", "does noone think about the children" ...

he asked about a buzzer for his bike. if it's illegal where he lives or want to use it? who knows? he must make this up with himself. and me getting a buzz from an electric fence has never brought any farmer to jail. put some warning stickers on it.

The focus was actually on retaliation and the likelihood of losing more. It's totally different to getting caught riding an overpowered bike - it's a malicious mantrap.

Beating the bully is a risky game. If you bet big and scare them off, you "win". I put another kid in hospital for picking on me. Sure, he and his dill buddies never picked on me again. I got in a hell of a lot of trouble for it and really, there were better ways to deal with it.

If you have a piss weak electric zap, you are more likely to draw attention to yourself and up the pack mentality. If your not up to bet big, back off otherwise you risk losing.

I don't know what the age is for criminal charges in Germany, but they can be a real pain in the ass for something just plain simple. I have had friends with relatively minor charges - traffic infringements, driving under the influence etc. Getting denied visas or having to muck around more to get them to get into other countries, awkward explanations with new employers for criminal charges, government agencies turning you down for jobs, turned down for permanent residency in other countries...... it's just really not worth it to be associated with this kind of problem early on in life. You just really don't know when your young how much it can affect your life later on.

and none of that mentioned jail or even the penalty received for the charge... and its all to have a electric charge on your bike which will be ineffective anyway.

 

[Brentis]

I'm with Dogman on this one.
Bullies know a different language, a language of violence. Violence to you(physically), your property and intimidation of your spirit.(soul, psyche, emotional being, etc).
I suffered three bullies through high school. Mind you when I was in school bullying was not a term. It was boys being boys. I tried to tell a teacher, they talked to one of my bullies, shit got worse. Now I was a rat as well as an outcast.
Standing up to them was my only solution.
One, all it took was for my to stand up for myself. The confrontation and threats that I was not going to take it anymore seemed to work. He moved on to other kids.
Second was a "friend". Just a dick that hung around a few of us outcasts to get booze and drugs. He was a lifelong hockey goon. He knew only physical violence. I had to fight him. No winner, but the bullying stopped.
Third was an absolute nutter. He was the worst and most violent and most intimidating. Eventually it culminated in him stabbing me with a drawing compass. He got invited to a "party" where another kid he was bullying and I smacked him around a bit, told him how he hurt us that it would NOT happen again, stripped him of his winter gear, boots gloves jacket. Picked him up and out of the house through him into a snow bank, turned around and locked the door. Long walk home in socks and snow. Never said a word to us again.
Bullyies like an easy target. They are as equally weak as they appear strong. If you are an inconvenient target they will move on.
All that said, I most certainly don't condone violence, but sometimes it's the only language a bully understands.
Confrontation was the key.

As to making an electric booby trap. Don't. That won't stop the bullyies, only piss them off more. The more likely outcome is an innocent will get zapped, report your bike and you will be in a world of trouble that is exponentially worse than a few fists thrown. In this day and age and the anti-terrorist laws being enacted in many western countries, creating a booby trap is a dangerous game. Trying that in the U.S. could land you in an invisible prison without representation, without anyone knowing, for an undetermined amount of time.
Terrorist is a much harder label to shake than assault, (teenager in a fist fight).

Find out who's vandalizing your bike and confront. Show them your strength. They will back down 90% of the time on that confrontation alone.

 

[MadRhino]

I'm with Dogman on this one.
Bullies know a different language, a language of violence...

Yep. The only cure for a bully is humiliation, and the sooner the better.

 

[Drunkskunk]

As others have said, if you're going to fight back, Finnish it in one act, or forget even trying. you'll only make it worse.

Consider how you would react if someone you were picking on caused you to be shocked. Would you give up? would you quit picking on them? Hell No. You would get mad. You would make them pay for your pain. You would do double to them anything you had done before. You would make them regret the day that dared ever try to fight back!

If I was your bully, and your bike shocked me, you would find your bike bent in half around the flag pole. probably on fire. Or at the bottom of a duck pond. Or if I was a smart bully, I'd get a teacher and complain that the electric bike had shocked me when I bumped it, and I thought it might be dangerous. getting it banned from the school. Or if I was more of a sadist, I might grab you, haul your pants down, and shove your winky against the bike, so you could get shocked by your own trap in front of all the girls at school.

Half measures won't work. If some bully is damaging your property, it's a crime. Get the police involved, or your school. If they hit you, it's assault, get the police involved. If you feel like your safety is threatened, get the police and your school involved. Those are the responsible adult things I have to tell you instead of telling you to kick his ass once and for all.

 

[nutnspecial]

I didn't really get this had anything to do with bullying.

Op, you've got plently of warning, so I will focus on your question. I agree with izeman.

If using ac like an electric fence, the shock is not instantaneous or constant, but is able to find ground even thru peoples shoes/boots.
I believe they use several thousand volts at under 1 amp.
Unless there is something more suitable in the car world, you would need a e-fence controller, and work out how well the painted metal will conduct. Also the energizer needs a good ground to earth I believe.
A very curious idea lol. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PATRIOT-PE2-ELECTRIC-110V-AC-FENCER-2-MILE-8-ACRE-FENCE-ENERGIZER-/272065461742?hash=item3f585d7dee:g:k6MAAMXQfvlScU4H

Make sure you video the bike anyway, you could become a youtube sensation. But seriously, don't forget about being responsible lol

 

[LockH]

`Been contemplating GPS Tracking via ES thread. Also wanna play w/installing a fake dome camera. But Step One re any GPS is just to add a sign saying WARNING: GPS Tracker Installed! stuck on my trike seat (seat of chair on recumbent).