SLA performance

smorse1

100 mW
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
36
Location
Omaha, Nebraska
Ok, so 48 v nominal SLA in 4 12v batteries. 54.8 v hot off the charger, and 50.1 v before charging after my afternoon commute. I barely made it home because it kept hitting the low voltage cutout. Is this purely because of the voltage sag?
The batteries are not too old, but are only going half the distance from when i first got them.
 
the cutout is probably from the sag. As SLA age they sag more and provide a lot less total capacity before doing so. 100-200 cycles isn't uncommon before they're not worth carrying around anymore, when put under high loads all the time. Sometimes they last longer, and sometimes you can desulfate them and extend their usefulness, but it doesnt' always work.

Some SLA are made much better than others for our purposes, too.

How old are yours, and how much usage/loading have they had?
 
Sla voltage sags big time. Sla is just not good to use with ebikes.
 
They would perk back up some when warm weather comes, but if you are running them till dead every day, you are simply using them up. So your capacity is so low now, the sag is even worse.

I'd suggest a 48v 15 ah pingbattery to replace your sla's, as soon as you get some money. You'll have triple the range, and it should last 3-4 years at least.
 
Try keeping the pack close to 70F until they can be replaced.

this will keep available peak current, total watt hours and voltage at their best temperature wise.

d
 
I dont have anything other than a multimeter for measurement, but i cant be pulling too much out of them. 5amp charger only takes about 1 hour to charge. Based on starting voltage, and ending voltage is there a way to determine how much i am using from the pack?
 
I have about 50 cycles on them and always recharged immediately after use. Maybe the 5amp charger is killing them? Am i charging too fast?
 
5A is pretty high for 9Ah SLA. 4A-5A is the max charging current for my 17Ah, 18Ah, and 20Ah SLA. I think my old 12Ah SLA were marked as 3A max, might've been less. I forget what my 7Ah were, but probably 2A or less. Yours are probably marked with the max charge voltage and current on the side, but not all of them have that info, and some manufacturers don't have websites or don't provide useful info on them. You could check yours to see.

The 5A charger may also not actually provide 5A depending on the charge state of the SLA at the time, or other factors, so it might not be as bad as it could be.

It's only a problem if it heats the gel enough to boil off water, because in an SLA it is by it's nature very difficult to replace that water. Without the water, it doesn't have as much functional electrolyte, and so not as much capacity or current-carrying ability. If you charge your SLA in a very quiet room and the charger has no fans, you could probably hear it if it was boiling; it sounds a little like a quiet fizzing. There should be no sound at all from the SLA during charge, so any sound from them is probably not a good sign.




If the 5A charger is a constant-current charger and actually supplies 5A for the entire hour of charging, then you'd be putting in 5Ah. But it is unlikely, and the exact charging curve is difficult to know wihtout measuring it. Using a wattmeter would be the only way to know for sure how much power you use and put back in. A KillAWatt or similar on the outlet the charger is plugged into would give some estimate, if you knew the charger's efficiency, but a wattmeter in the DC charge and discharge path is better.

You could use the voltmeter, a clock, pad of paper and pen, and sitting there for an hour to determine approximate Ah and/or Wh put back in. If the voltmeter has an amps function, you could use that to measure the current provided by the charger, and just write it down as often as possible with a time-stamp. Then you could graph that over time, and get a curve, and have some idea of the actual Ah being put back in. If you can use two meters, one volts and one amps, you can get a curve for Wh put back in.



If it *is* actually charging at the full 5A for an hour, then 5Ah out of 9Ah SLA is more than 50% discharge, whcih is usually very hard on SLA, and ages them rapidly, especially if they sit partially discharged for any time. Recharging them as soon as you are stopped would mitigate this a little.

SLA are also made several different ways, and measured in capacity in various ways, too, dpeending on their use and the company that makes them. "Standard" is to measure at a 20-hour rate, meaning that 9Ah would be delivered only if you drained them at a rate that would do that over a 20-hour period. That would be a maximum of 450mA, which I can just about guarantee is far less than your bike uses. ;)

Usually at higher rates like we use, they will provide maybe half their rated power because of Peukert. If they are made for higher discharge rates then they may provide more than that, but some are very cheaply made and may not even provide that much. Plus, that rating is only when they are brand new. Even just sitting on the shelf unused they will age, and not all SLAs are marked with date codes for when they were made or when they were last charged. Some may sit in a warehouse for months or even years before being sold, and it is unlikely that they will be topped off during that time (though they should be, periodically, that's money for labor that I think most companies would rather just not spend--I once asked at a local Batteries Plus how often they top off the ones on their store shelves and they didn't even know what I meant, saying that they only need to be charged after they are used. So obviously those batteries are going to be more worn than those that get periodic top-offs, even though they have never been used).
 
Unlike SLA's a $30 power meter is your friend.

I never, ever, got much more than 5Ah from 9Ah HR (high rate) SLA pulling eBike 20-30A loads. And that was fresh, guarantee you NO battery increases capacity with age...
 
The great news in all of this is that i am convinced that LiPo is the way to go. I am trying to learn all i can. I am really just trying to get a feel for how much battery i am going to need. (Balancing that with how fast i want to make the bike go, of course) 8)
 
I had 4 12V 18AH SLA's in series for my first bike setup. I got about 11-12 AH out of them the first few discharges. After that, it was closer to 8AH for a while, and slowly declined until it hit about 2-3 barely useable AH. The sag on old lead is insane, it wouldn't do more than a few hundred watts before I replaced it with LiPo.
 
smorse1 said:
I am really just trying to get a feel for how much battery i am going to need.

Then you REALLY need a power meter. If I were doing this today I'd get $30 one from EPBuddy.com. Unlike SLA you actually get close to rated capacity from most other battery chemistries. And without all the sag. Start out with roughly the same volts and Ah of RC Lipo, you'll experience a tremendous improvement right there.
 
smorse1 said:
The great news in all of this is that i am convinced that LiPo is the way to go. I am trying to learn all i can. I am really just trying to get a feel for how much battery i am going to need. (Balancing that with how fast i want to make the bike go, of course) 8)

Lipo is a good choice but be very careful with wiring and charging the packs. You don't wanna accidentally burn the house down.
 
Lipo is the choice when you want 50 watts of 72v out of a tiny battery.

Pingbattery is a good safe choice when you want longer range anyway, and would be carrying a larger battery no matter what. In general, the theroretical lifespan of lifepo4 is about double that of lipo. Either type can fail early if you are unlucky and get one bad cell.
 
when i first started out in 2009 i was using some 12v 12ah sla batteries which was 59.4lbs :( and they were made for electric mobility use and i was running a crystalyte 5304 with a 40 controller those batteries didn't even last a 200 cycles on WOT :D

Sla's don't last long and don't have decent range IMO unless your only going 6 or 7 miles on one charge they are basically a tease in terms of being able to use your electric bike if you want better performance dump the lead and go to lithium Ping battery is a good choice depending on what kind of controller you are running like if you are running a 20-35 amp controller Ping is a great choice just make sure your battery capacity is 15-20 ah, If your running a controller that is 40amp and up then you should get a Headway pack or Lipo pack to higher currents.
 
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