So I think I finally felt that ebike hate.

Offroader

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I never really understood all the hate towards ebikes until today. I'm in Cambodia right now and the city (Siem Reap) I am in has banned tourists from renting scooters.

As I am on a multi month trip backpacking and am trying to keep costs minimal I notice many people rent bicycles instead of over priced local tourist rip-off transportation. I looked at how far I would have to travel and figured it is doable on a pedal bike. There are numerous places to rent pedal bikes here.

However, there is an option for renting ebikes here and cost $10 dollars a day, picture posted below. A normal biycle costs $1.00 for a older bike and $3 for a mountain bike.

This morning I was thinking if I should rent the electric bike or a pedal bike. The $10 dollars is on the high side for South East Asia, normally you can rent a gas scooter fror $5.00 a day or less. You see when you are here long enough you don't look at cost to what it buys you in your country, you compare, for a $1.00 it buys you a good meal in Thailand, or for $4.00 a night is the room I'm staying at in Siem Reap. You look at alternatives and compare. Weekly travelers with a bunch of cash this doesn't matter.

The big issue I have with renting the ebike is the range on these may not be enough for how far I wanted to go. I forgot what the guy told me the range was, maybe 50KM tops at 20KPH, but may have been 30KM. But you know he is overstating the range. It takes me 9 KM to get up to Angkor Wat and that is just to get in the area, so last thing I want to do is pedal this thing home. Boy do I wish I had my ebike with me and it's 2500WH capacity, lots of offroading fun could be done around here.

While thinking about using a pedal bike I imagined myself pedaling in the 90 degree heat here and struggling while the people on the electric bikes ride by me without any struggle or exertion. A form of jealousy, envy or hate came across me as I imagined myself pedaling in the hot heat while seeing the guys or girls on the ebikes ride by me without having to exert themselves. It was a genuine feeling as I was lost in free thought at the time and not thinking rationally.

It really surprised me that I felt this way considering I love ebikes. But it finally hit me why so many people have had issues when I ride my ebike and why I read on this forum often about people making negative comments to people with ebikes. It is simply because they are jealous of the fact that when we use ebikes we are basically cheating. It is as simple as that.

You would think why don't they just buy an ebike or I rent the $10 ebike, well it isn't always that easy and sometimes there are barriers to getting them. In my case it is because I'm on a 3 or 4 month trip and specifically want to keep costs low backpacker style.

 
Wonderful post from the adventure trail. I just came across your ebike and saw the mid drive config on it. Was thinking of doing something similar on the E-Kross frame.

I had posted some months back about ebike hating but felt there are a number of personal reasons ppl have to not like them. Where you are since bikes are a common form of basic transportation and the cost is so high (10x) to upgrade to an eride, being jealous makes perfect sense when pedalers sweat away and ebikers fly by getting a nice "air conditioned" ride.

In the USA, many bikers do so by choice, not forced by economics. Many just ride for fun on bicycles that cost as much as a used car. It seems the common reason is more just the purist bikers think pedaling is essential to riding on a bike.

Do you have a travel blog? Would love to follow along, especially your experiences in Cambodia and Ankor Wat.
 
Sounds like a nice long trip. I just returned yesterday from a month holiday, in Cambodia 1 week then 3 in Vietnam.

Did you try bargain down the $10 bike hire? We hired a car with driver for $20 and the motorcycle tuk tuk should easily come in at $15 for low mileage. Longer distances (like to Banteay Srei temple) I guess fuel costs increase and they wanted more $$.

I still don't get the "Cheating" comment I hear about ebikes. I normally respond by saying "I didn't realise we were competing".

I wanted an excuse to post up on ES about the ebikes I saw. Exclusively scooter style, rear hub, and people mostly riding them feet up off the pedals. No licence or age requirement seemed to be enforced on the locals. Some Giant, Yamaha, Honda, Bridgestone, HKbike brands as well as others. Here's a bank of them in Hanoi.

IMG_20141229_111521.jpg



Enjoy the rest of your travelling Offroader!
 
Thanks for sharing.

I like the idea of no tourist scooters where cycle infrastructure and ebikes exist. Nobody wants dead tourists, and biking excludes very few people. It's a much better family event, where the journey can be part of the day out, not just a necessary way of getting somewhere. In the UK we have an island about 15 miles long that is powered entirely by sustainable energy. It's a tourist island, and would benefit greatly from having it's attractions linked by good bike trails that made use of this sustainable energy. It would be an eco model worthy of international note. It's great, the coast is quite populated and the center of the island has lots of moorland. The tourist board could make something of it.
 
windtrader said:
I had posted some months back about ebike hating but felt there are a number of personal reasons ppl have to not like them. Where you are since bikes are a common form of basic transportation and the cost is so high (10x) to upgrade to an eride, being jealous makes perfect sense when pedalers sweat away and ebikers fly by getting a nice "air conditioned" ride.

In the USA, many bikers do so by choice, not forced by economics. Many just ride for fun on bicycles that cost as much as a used car. It seems the common reason is more just the purist bikers think pedaling is essential to riding on a bike.

Do you have a travel blog? Would love to follow along, especially your experiences in Cambodia and Ankor Wat.

I think that purists don't really like to pedal when it comes down to it. If they truly did then they wouldn't get so pissed about an electric bike. I could be wrong.

I just wish I had my ebike with me, there is so many places I could use it. From urban assault type of riding in places like Bangkok, to the woods and off road trails in places like Siem Reap. However it would have it's limitations when I get to Vietnam and will go cross country with a motorcycle. Over in Vietnam you actually purchase a motorcycle when you enter and sell it when you leave.
 
I think if my e-bike option was one of those, I'd find more dignity in walking. And I'm none too fond of walking.
 
The fingers said:

Yes Vietnam I am expecting to be the highlight of my trip. What backpackers do and what I will do in Vietnam is purchase a motorbike from a person who is leaving and then they sell them to someone else when I leave. It is a great way to have your own motorbike during the whole trip and basically sell it to someone else and lose very little money. Also if it gets stolen you don't get ripped off from a rental shop charging you a high value. This only works as the title is in some Vietnamese persons name (could have been from years ago), and the police are told to leave tourists alone riding motorbikes.

Driving a motorbike in south east asia is so much fun because there are no rules on the road, and the sights and weather are always very nice. I personally don't find driving a motorcycle in USA fun at all, constant street lights, just straight streets, total boring. In South East Asia it is like you are in a race every time you are on the street, there are hardly any traffic lights or rules, but it is safe to be honest as the people know how to drive.

I may rent a scooter type, I am not sure yet. Most people use scooters over here as they get ridiculous gas mileage like over 100MPG. These things are a lot of fun especially when driving the smaller 110cc ones at top speed and very reliable.
 
I may rent a scooter type, I am not sure yet. Most people use scooters over here as they get ridiculous gas mileage like over 100MPG. These things are a lot of fun especially when driving the smaller 110cc ones at top speed and very reliable.
Sounds like the plan. With all the wonderful sites around, going a bit slower gives one more time to absorb it all. Since most are on same class bikes you'll be fine in the flow and zen of the pack. Enjoy
 
Hello,

I've got to agree with Chalo on this one, I would rather walk in the rain than ride one of those Moped style Green Machines!

That said... I agree purists hate eBikes because there is no need to Pedal but I don't think it's just because or even partly because they dislike pedaling... I'm leaning more towards: They have spent so much time training and building those legs for domination on a normal bicycle and here we come along, back pedaling and smoking a cigarette while doing it and kicking their butts, we may not care but it belittles these purists (shouldn't but does). I actually heard some lycra addicts talking about eBikes once and they were basically all resentful because we smoke em with no effort thus making all their work, well MEANINGLESS.

Personally I find it juvenile to hate eBikers because we "cheat" meaning we don't need to train 10 years to whomp on them... That is where the "Cheating" feeling comes from for them, I just laugh and usually make some comment about WORKING SMARTER NOT HARDER which equally irritates them but eh, who cares as you pull away leaving them behind you :)

Just my .02c

-Mike
 
Great vacation you having there!

I don't think the word "hate" is the right one, at least in our country. "Condescending" maybe the better way to describe it here. I myself do not ride on e-bikes, just building one for family needs. But I started to realize the pluses and the advantages of this kind of ride, which definitely can help people, who is out of shape or with health issue,s to maintain physical activity and fun at controlled heart pace (which is really crucial sometimes). There was quite a few cases of heart issues on bikes which led to lethal outcome in the recent year here. I just thought to myself, that if those guys weren't so square-minded about their health and e-bikes as "bikes for dweebs" - maybe they still were alive...

But that's me and my thoughts... I have to get back on my regular motorless bike and start getting back to shape. :mrgreen:
 
Interesting to hear the negative comments about the green electric scooters above because I thought it was pretty cool when I saw it. Of course, I thought the 110cc chopper that was painted like the "Easy Rider" chopper I rented in the Florida Keys was cool too. ;^)
 
Thanks for the posts everyone. South East Asia is really my new favorite spot in the world to travel. I find it very adventurous and very reasonable in price to travel. There are so many different countries and places to visit, and it is very cheap to travel here. Bus rides that are hundreds of miles are only like $5.00. Air fare is also very cheap if you get the right deals to fly between the countries.

The weather is also a big plus for me as I come here during their dry season (probably best time to travel) and avoid the cold winter months in New York. If you get a little fed up with being away from big cities you simply come back to Bangkok, which to me feels like a safe European city and has very cheap prices for everything. Thailand is also very kid friendly as many Europeans are here with their families.
 
I'm a guy. I hate it when somebody passes me. Genetically pre-programed and fueled by hormones.
 
Eclectic said:
I'm a guy. I hate it when somebody passes me. Genetically pre-programed and fueled by hormones.
That could be it right there. Children can adopt irrational emotionally based concepts that are difficult to address and remedy if allowed to persist into adulthood. Which of us didn't want to be the fastest rider as children?
 
I started slowing down in my 20s after a couple of vehicle accidents. Continued easing along when I got married, then had a child. Now I drive in the slow lane in a big hole between the semis. :lol:
 
I think a true "purest" uses a bike first and foremost for transportation- and very few "of them" do. I think they're more accurately described as "elitists"- what do you think?
 
I used a hard tail giant mountain bike for 3 days around Angkor Wat. I must say it wasn't too bad pedaling for three days in a row because everything was completely flat. I think in the many miles I rode there was only a very small uphill path. So even though I rode for miles it was no problem and you could pick up decent speed being completely flat.

I'll say this, doing anything off road completely sucked, I find that you can't even pedal over roots in the ground or slight dirt mounds. There really is absolutely no fun with a mountain bike, way too hard to do much with off-road. What also sucked was the bicycle seat hurting and pedal strikes.

Since I haven't rode a normal bike in years I didn't realize the limits with them when riding off-road.

I have 7K invested in my raptor and it is built more like a dirtbike, but damn my raptor bike with down hill suspension just rides over anything off-road like it was a Cadillac as I like to say, or a luxury car. The 8-10" travel suspension just eats everything up. The 3" fat rear motorcycle tire at 15 PSI cushions the heavy rear and grips everything. The 5KW of power just pulls hard over anything. I basically plow into anything and don't feel it.

I'm not trying to push sales for my bike, but just amazed at how much a hard tail bike sucks and how difficult it is to pedal off-road.

Downhill suspension ebikes are such an amazing piece of technology for what they can do. I think some of you who haven't tried a downhill suspension ebike really need to try it out. I want to build a 2nd one just so I can have people demo them.
 
Hard tails are actually great fun. You feel connected to the trail, and you have to do the work with your body instead of letting the bike plow through everything. Imagine training for a long time until you're fast AND comfortable riding rough terrain on a hard tail; you need skills and fitness. THEN go to bike with downhill suspension and your skill set will be that much more advanced.

Like any sport you have to train to be good at it... riding exclusively on a 5KW E-bike with downhill suspension... obviously a hard tail is going to be uncomfortable after that.. but ride a HT for a while and you get used to it, you build techniques, avoiding pedal strikes is a skill you learn, as with standing over the roughest stuff so your ass doesn't get hammered.

I shred mountains exclusively on hard tails and while obviously it's not as comfy or efficient over rough stuff as a full susser, I find it's more rewarding. You learn to pick better lines, instead of letting the bike do all the work.

Here's a great vid to show what a hard tail is capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdIQ-zjHNs8
or check out some of my vids all riding on a hard tail: http://www.pinkbike.com/u/kyle201/channel/all/

Now I'm probably biased because I've never ridden a full suspension bike, but I have no need since I can ride ANYTHING a downhill bike could, save for the massive gap jumps and it's why my first E-bike will be a hard tail as well, for off-road. Skills, fitness, simplicity... once I go over to a full suspension bike I'll be even faster with a fully developed skill set for riding.
 
Offroader said:
I have 7K invested in my raptor and it is built more like a dirtbike, but damn my raptor bike with down hill suspension just rides over anything off-road like it was a Cadillac as I like to say, or a luxury car. The 8-10" travel suspension just eats everything up. The 3" fat rear motorcycle tire at 15 PSI cushions the heavy rear and grips everything. The 5KW of power just pulls hard over anything. I basically plow into anything and don't feel it.

I'm not trying to push sales for my bike, but just amazed at how much a hard tail bike sucks and how difficult it is to pedal off-road.

Downhill suspension ebikes are such an amazing piece of technology for what they can do. I think some of you who haven't tried a downhill suspension ebike really need to try it out. I want to build a 2nd one just so I can have people demo them.
I notice the same thing with small motorcycles, street vs. enduro or dirt. The street suspensions are stiff and I find myself using my legs to get my butt off the seat to avoid unpleasant 'kicks'. The enduro and off-road dirt suspensions are like Citroëns with which you just plow over stuff without worry.
 
Cool trip. Currently, own recumbent trike disquised as wheelchair for disabled old guy. (Oh. Wait. That IS me.) Currently thinking front tire friction drive as part of conversion to high-speed wheelchair. Will take care to stay on sidewalk (in my own neighbourhood at least.) Also can add cane holder. (Currently stagger just fine, cane unaided.) So addding cane-ish thingee held somewhere to complete "disabled" disguise. (Amazing watt "handicap" folks get away with, eh? :twisted:
 
Chalo said:
I think if my e-bike option was one of those, I'd find more dignity in walking. And I'm none too fond of walking.

So I saw someone in my hostel charging the battery for one of those bikes. The battery said 48 volts 14 amp hour. It was ridiculously heavy, felt as heavy as my 72 volts 35 amp hour lipo battery.

I also rode past someone driving them with my pedal bike and easily pedaled away from him, seems like he was very limited with speed. I also rode by a place in Angkor Wat that had a number of these people charging their bikes.

I decided to look how much these green scooter bikes with pedals actually cost and it seems you can order them from alibaba for like $300 dollars.

I can't believe how much this French guy is making who is renting that junk for $10 dollars a day. Labor and store property costs basically nothing here so he is making all profits and has a lot of those bikes.
I'm almost tempted to open a shop with much better equipped electric bikes just to put him out of business. He is raking in the easy money for something as simple as that electric bike.
 
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