rkosiorek
100 kW
pics? matt you forgot the pics.
rick
rick
Some custom work going on in the "Matt-Cave" :~)
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
recumpence
1 GW
My pics are on the previous page.rkosiorek said:
Here are a few of the steering damper that I added.
This is designed for a Harley Sportster (aftermarket). It is adjustable, very high quality. The damper moves through it's entire travel right as the steering maxes out. It is a perfect fit. I mounted it on the one side like that for convenience and to allow clearance for other equipment in other places. Normally we mount these under the front of the seat next to the tie rod. But, for this application, this is a better location. It is also a more firm mounting point here.
From these pictures, you can also see the adjustable handlebar tillers. These I make for the Catrike 700. They do not fit directly on the KMX spindles. I had to do extensive spindle mods to get them to fit. But, they look beautiful!
The frame, rims, spindles, tie rod, and misc items are at the powder coater as we speak. He said "Some time next week". I will call him Wednesday to check on it.
As I mentioned, the frame, rims, cranks, and tie rod will be coated "Safety Yellow", then cleared. The spindles and pedal boom will be coated flat black. The battery boxes will be anodized black along with the two 3220s (motors), drive unit, torque arm, sprocket adaptor, and misc other items. The seat cover will be embroidered with some yellow lettering and/or striping as well.
All in all, I will have $400 invested in frame blasting and powder coating. This on top of roughly 20 hours of labor on the trike to get it to this point.
I will have about $5,000 to $5,500 invested in this trike (depending on how many packs I install). I will put it up for sale for $9,000 when it is finished.
Oh, I found the perfect foam for the seat side bolsters. Mc Master Carr sells rolls of adhesive backed Neoprene (and other rubber types). I ordered a roll of it in black for the side bolsters.
Matt
Attachments
AussieJester
1 TW
Lovin the steering damper, saw a fella on ratrodbikes use one on a custom build, but not a 'full size' damper he used one from
a italian made pocket bike, just like the full size job but 1/2 the size, looked cute too hehe... Does that $400 for powdercoat and blasting include 24 carat gold fleck ?
KiM
a italian made pocket bike, just like the full size job but 1/2 the size, looked cute too hehe... Does that $400 for powdercoat and blasting include 24 carat gold fleck ?
KiM
recumpence
1 GW
The innitial blasting of all parts (there were quite a few individual parts) cost $153. The powder coater is dressing up a few welds that I somehow neglected, doing some additional blasting of the frame and rims to achieve better powder adhereance, then powder coating it in yellow. After the yellow dries (cools), it will be repowdered clear, then baked again. There is alot of work involved with it. That work will cost $250.
Between this trike, my Catrike 700, a Dahon folding bike I am working on, and my Velokraft carbon fiber recumbent, I am broke........
I have a couple perspective buyers for the carbon recumbent and one possible interested buyer for this trike. So, I am hoping at least the recumbent sells. If it sells, I can keep this project. But, I cannot move on to bigger and better things without selling project bikes.
Anyway, I have plenty of time right now because my appliance business is slow. Of course, I know right when my next batch of drives is ready and the next batch of motors arrives, my appliance business will get busy. That is the way things work, you know?!
Part of me hopes this trike does not sell. It will be running the craziest motors (twin 15,000 RPM 3220s) and will look wicked! But, I have to sell something to fund the next project. My hope is that the recumbent sells first. That thing is cool, but this trike is my favorite.
Matt
Between this trike, my Catrike 700, a Dahon folding bike I am working on, and my Velokraft carbon fiber recumbent, I am broke........
I have a couple perspective buyers for the carbon recumbent and one possible interested buyer for this trike. So, I am hoping at least the recumbent sells. If it sells, I can keep this project. But, I cannot move on to bigger and better things without selling project bikes.
Anyway, I have plenty of time right now because my appliance business is slow. Of course, I know right when my next batch of drives is ready and the next batch of motors arrives, my appliance business will get busy. That is the way things work, you know?!
Part of me hopes this trike does not sell. It will be running the craziest motors (twin 15,000 RPM 3220s) and will look wicked! But, I have to sell something to fund the next project. My hope is that the recumbent sells first. That thing is cool, but this trike is my favorite.
Matt
cell_man
100 kW
Great work 
Can't wait to see what it will do when it's finished.
Can't wait to see what it will do when it's finished.
etard
100 kW
Inspiring work Matt, can't wait to see how it looks with all the powder, and that flat black boom will be a nice touch. Definately a bargain at $9k considering all the expertise that you bring to the table, not to mention legendary status. 
Have you thought about adding a pop-up headrest, that could also double as storage? Might be able to make it act as a cage or "crown" that could keep the rider safe in an accident too. I guess no matter how you cut it, the rider is always the highest point in rollover, so most of the safesty equipment would be a neck brace and helmet, but a system to assist these items would multiply chances of walking away after this thing highsides on a drifting burnout at 60mph. 8)
I was also thinking that a custom leather seat, like you would find in an exotic car could boost the wow factor, when the buyer is trying to explain to his wife that this thing is worth nearly 10k.
But at the same time, if you gear this to go 100mph and title it as a motorcycle, it would rival anything out there in this price range.
Maybe one crazy guy will take this up Pikes Peak! You should make that as a stipulation for the buyer, or do it yourself. :lol:
Have you thought about adding a pop-up headrest, that could also double as storage? Might be able to make it act as a cage or "crown" that could keep the rider safe in an accident too. I guess no matter how you cut it, the rider is always the highest point in rollover, so most of the safesty equipment would be a neck brace and helmet, but a system to assist these items would multiply chances of walking away after this thing highsides on a drifting burnout at 60mph. 8)
I was also thinking that a custom leather seat, like you would find in an exotic car could boost the wow factor, when the buyer is trying to explain to his wife that this thing is worth nearly 10k.
But at the same time, if you gear this to go 100mph and title it as a motorcycle, it would rival anything out there in this price range. Maybe one crazy guy will take this up Pikes Peak! You should make that as a stipulation for the buyer, or do it yourself. :lol:
recumpence
1 GW
Depending on how well this thing runs, I may price it at $10K. I added it up and the total for just the materials and outsource labor is $8,670 (retail). That is without any labor for the frame work on my part. So, $10K is about right. Plus if I price it really high it may not sell! :wink:
As for the seat, I am planning on having the black seat cover embroidered with some yellow lettering and/or striping. It will look cool. A leather cover would be cool too. Hmm, that may not be hard to have done. Maybe I will look into it.
Oh, I had a conversation with Bob from Astro today. He is building me some very wild motors for this trike. He has been calling me repeatedly getting excited about his findings. He tested one of my motors today all the way up to 30,000RPM! He said his controller shut down, but the motor survived! sweet! He said he is winding the motors (3220s) 4 turn Delta. That should put them at about 14,000 RPM under load. The primary chain is efficient up to 15,000 RPM. So, that should be ideal. The previous trikes were 6 turn Deltas. So, this trike should be 40% more powerful if geared for the same top speed.
Hmm, if he has not wired my motors yet (he was running one prototype of my layout), I may ask him for 3.5 turn Deltas. That will push them right up to 15,000 RPM under load.
This thing should absolutely SCREAM! Oh, speaking of which, I am planning on making CNC machined primary chain cases. The trike will need one to keep the chain oil off my beautiful yellow. Plus, it will dampen the chain noise.
Those chain cases/covers will be available once I know they are good to go.
Matt
As for the seat, I am planning on having the black seat cover embroidered with some yellow lettering and/or striping. It will look cool. A leather cover would be cool too. Hmm, that may not be hard to have done. Maybe I will look into it.
Oh, I had a conversation with Bob from Astro today. He is building me some very wild motors for this trike. He has been calling me repeatedly getting excited about his findings. He tested one of my motors today all the way up to 30,000RPM! He said his controller shut down, but the motor survived! sweet! He said he is winding the motors (3220s) 4 turn Delta. That should put them at about 14,000 RPM under load. The primary chain is efficient up to 15,000 RPM. So, that should be ideal. The previous trikes were 6 turn Deltas. So, this trike should be 40% more powerful if geared for the same top speed.
Hmm, if he has not wired my motors yet (he was running one prototype of my layout), I may ask him for 3.5 turn Deltas. That will push them right up to 15,000 RPM under load.
This thing should absolutely SCREAM! Oh, speaking of which, I am planning on making CNC machined primary chain cases. The trike will need one to keep the chain oil off my beautiful yellow. Plus, it will dampen the chain noise.
Those chain cases/covers will be available once I know they are good to go.
Matt
j3tch1u
10 kW
recumpence said:
matt, 10k is too low for that beut. $11,900 sounds about right. i expect your target market will not flinch over a couple G. pour that money back into R&D.
way to go! that motor sounds fantastic. good that bob is jazzed. get him hooked on ebikes and that could further development.
AussieJester
1 TW
Mattt, these trikes are great and i am now considering a tadpole myself after seeing this build, but i am curious if you
have aspirations to do a high end downhill moutain bike RC build to excite the masses ?
KiM
have aspirations to do a high end downhill moutain bike RC build to excite the masses ?
KiM
damcard
100 W
recumpence said:
Good to hear Matt. Do you think he will be willing to lift the 12000 rpm limit on other motors, say the two I am ordering?
zenon
100 W
Hey Matt looking great !
Love those caliper, I bit it can stop this bad ass tadpole in a split.
Can't wait to see the burn outs, maybe a front wheel lockdown with Javex Bleach and sand under the rear tire smoke show :wink:
A fire extinguisher nearby just in case the rear tire catches on fire
Love those caliper, I bit it can stop this bad ass tadpole in a split.
Can't wait to see the burn outs, maybe a front wheel lockdown with Javex Bleach and sand under the rear tire smoke show :wink:
A fire extinguisher nearby just in case the rear tire catches on fire
recumpence
1 GW
damcard said:recumpence said:
Good to hear Matt. Do you think he will be willing to lift the 12000 rpm limit on other motors, say the two I am ordering?
He hastes selling motors that he knows will be run faster than 10K (12K no-load). The easiest way to do it is to just order the wind you want without telling him what voltage will be run.
So, calculate your KV based on 50volt no-load that will give you 15K and I will order that spec. You will have a bit more sound and require more gear down. But, your power will go up accordingly.
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
zenon said:Hey Matt looking great !
Love those caliper, I bit it can stop this bad ass tadpole in a split.
Can't wait to see the burn outs, maybe a front wheel lockdown with Javex Bleach and sand under the rear tire smoke show :wink:
A fire extinguisher nearby just in case the rear tire catches on fire
No bleach required. These trike brake-torque wonderfully and the tire smokes without bleach.
Kim,
Yeah, yeah, I know. I really need to do a MTB. It will happen. I just wanted to find the limit of these electric drives. A tadpole trike is the only vehicle I can find that won't wheelie. That allows me to take full advantage of the power.
One of the posters here is working on a crazy downhill bike with twin Astros, however. :wink:
Matt
TPA
10 kW
You want to ride around in reverse?AussieJester said:
Oh, wait till OtherDoc catches wind of this!
AussieJester
1 TW
TPA said:
I think he he already knows :: wink :: If i make one will be full suspension my back couldnt take
this low to the ground business with no flex ..of course would HAVE to have a 4in wide rear too LoL..
Matt..are you referring to the aluminium MTB build by the other West Australian in Rockingham? with the
hand made aluminium components? THAT is some nice work indeed!
KiM
oatnet
1 MW
Nice work!
-JD
-JD
recumpence
1 GW
I just recieved a call from Bob at Astro. He is done winding my 4 turn Delta 3220s. He calculated the HP output of those motors at 14hp each. So, this trike will be 28hp. The previous trikes I built were 20hp max (about 18hp under most conditions). That along with the added traction and more rearward weight distribution should give pretty violent accelleration. The only negative is bearing side loading on the front side motor bearings. So, I will be machining outboard bearing supports for both motors to eleviate that stress.
I am pushing everything right to the very edge on this trike.
For instance, the belt that connects the two motors together has an RPM limit of 14,000. The highest torque load capability of that belt is around 8,000 RPM. The motors will run 15k with no load. With a load they will be spinning about 13,500 RPM. The meat of the accelleration will occur under 10k RPM. That is the limit of that belt. The RPM of the motors is such that I can just barely achieve the proper reduction for 65mph at the rear wheel. The rear wheel will be just about at the limit of its strength. The rear tire will be pushed right to the edge. The rims I am using are the widest out there and those I had to have specially made. The controllers will be pushed past their limit (right at their burst limit). The brakes will be pushed to their limit. I added seat bolsters to hold me in under hard cornering.
Like I said, everything will be pushed right to the edge. Assuming everything works as planned, this kart should be about the pinnacle of bicycle component performance.
We shall see!
Matt
I am pushing everything right to the very edge on this trike.
For instance, the belt that connects the two motors together has an RPM limit of 14,000. The highest torque load capability of that belt is around 8,000 RPM. The motors will run 15k with no load. With a load they will be spinning about 13,500 RPM. The meat of the accelleration will occur under 10k RPM. That is the limit of that belt. The RPM of the motors is such that I can just barely achieve the proper reduction for 65mph at the rear wheel. The rear wheel will be just about at the limit of its strength. The rear tire will be pushed right to the edge. The rims I am using are the widest out there and those I had to have specially made. The controllers will be pushed past their limit (right at their burst limit). The brakes will be pushed to their limit. I added seat bolsters to hold me in under hard cornering.
Like I said, everything will be pushed right to the edge. Assuming everything works as planned, this kart should be about the pinnacle of bicycle component performance.
We shall see!
Matt
etard
100 kW
Well it sounds like the limiting factor on this trike will be the rider. Kinda like the F-22 Raptor, maybe you should call it the R-22.
Kinda like the F-22 Raptor, maybe you should call it the R-22. electraflyit
10 W
Whooooo, hang on tight.
Thats going to be 400amps at 50volts, thats some serious power and cabling, or are you going higher voltage?
I look foward to and enjoy reading your every post.
Eddie
Thats going to be 400amps at 50volts, thats some serious power and cabling, or are you going higher voltage?
I look foward to and enjoy reading your every post.
Eddie
recumpence
1 GW
Here are some pictures.
I spent 5 hours disassembling and relacing the wheels.
The new front rims are slightly smaller ERD than the stock rims. So, I laced them slightly different with a small amount of spoke twist (crossed behind each other). This made the spoke length correct. The rear rim was so far off, I had to use different spokes. So, I took that as an opportunity to lace the rear wheel with a stronger 3 cross rather than the stock 2 cross patern. The rear tire is just barely narrow enough to clear everything without any interfereances. So, this should be a good platform to accept some serious horsepower.
I am VERY happy with the overall look of the trike as a whole so far. I am excited to see it together.
I also welded together the new handlebars. I have no pics of that yet, however. The left bar holds both front brake master-cylinders. My middle finger will operate left front brake and my index finger will operate the right front brake.
Anyway, I will post updates as I have them.
Matt
I spent 5 hours disassembling and relacing the wheels.
The new front rims are slightly smaller ERD than the stock rims. So, I laced them slightly different with a small amount of spoke twist (crossed behind each other). This made the spoke length correct. The rear rim was so far off, I had to use different spokes. So, I took that as an opportunity to lace the rear wheel with a stronger 3 cross rather than the stock 2 cross patern. The rear tire is just barely narrow enough to clear everything without any interfereances. So, this should be a good platform to accept some serious horsepower.
I am VERY happy with the overall look of the trike as a whole so far. I am excited to see it together.
I also welded together the new handlebars. I have no pics of that yet, however. The left bar holds both front brake master-cylinders. My middle finger will operate left front brake and my index finger will operate the right front brake.
Anyway, I will post updates as I have them.
Matt
Attachments
johnrobholmes
10 MW
Got enough brakes for those wheels ? :lol: :lol:
Looks completely sick, what a build!
Looks completely sick, what a build!
recumpence
1 GW
johnrobholmes said:
I have 4 piston Hope calipers for those huge rotors too.
John, I have money burning a hole in my account for you. I will call you for an exact total soon.
Matt
gwhy!
100 kW
Hi Matt,
Just a heads up, I remember you saying that on you monster bmx that you blued the disks through heat it may be a wise thing to look into the possibility of boiling brake fluid causing braking problems ( the brake fluid is nothing really to special on bike brakes ), my guess is that the braking will be a lot harder on the kart than it was on the bmx. Im sure you got this covered, but thought I would ask.
Just a heads up, I remember you saying that on you monster bmx that you blued the disks through heat it may be a wise thing to look into the possibility of boiling brake fluid causing braking problems ( the brake fluid is nothing really to special on bike brakes ), my guess is that the braking will be a lot harder on the kart than it was on the bmx. Im sure you got this covered, but thought I would ask.
recumpence
1 GW
Twin discs will have far less load than the one on the BMX bike.
The calipers never got hot on that bike, anyway.
Matt
The calipers never got hot on that bike, anyway.
Matt
gwhy!
100 kW
recumpence said:Twin discs will have far less load than the one on the BMX bike.
The calipers never got hot on that bike, anyway.
Matt
I knew deep down you already thought about this...