Some Questions About E-Bikes as a Primary Mode of Transport

[JJ2525]

Hi,

I live in Los Angeles and am looking into an E-Bike/E-Motorcycle for the primary reasons of parking ease, (seemingly) lower vehicle maintenance+gas costs, environmental improvement and (hopefully) less traffic. I do not drive on the freeways except when I need to, and have a car for those long trips. It's easy enough to get around without accessing the freeway.

I have narrowed my search to two vehicles, the Zero S Motorcycle and the Stealth Bomber electric bike. I am leaning towards the Stealth because it's cheaper, lighter, I can store it in my apartment and as much as the performance of the Zero is appealing, I don't really need it. I have some questions about the Stealth, and am hopeful that this informative forum can help me gain some clarity.

1) I am very intrigued by the Twist and Go throttle on the Zero. If you are not pedaling on the Stealth and are just using the throttle exclusively, do you still need to shift gears or can it be Twist and Go?

2) Bike lanes are notoriously scarce in LA. Can the Stealth be ridden competently in the street? I haven't ridden a bicycle in years, but 40-50 MPH would be sufficiently snappy to avoid being maimed by drivers, yes?

3) What are the primary sources of maintenance costs for the Stealth?

4) I see the battery is rated for 600-800 cycles. Is it a "smart" battery so I needn't worry about draining it, charge times, etc.? Also, when the battery dies, does the manufacturer offer replacement batteries or are they really done with you after you purchase the bike.

Appreciative for any and all info. Thanks!

 

[JJ2525]

I accidentally posted this in the wrong forum, intending it for E-Bikes General Discussion. Could a mod please move it? Thanks!

 

[grindz145]

Hey man,

Here's my 2c.

You don't have to shift the stealth, unless you're pedaling. It's just a hub motor.

The stealth of course, won't be entirely street legal. That may or may not be a consequence to you.

The zero is a real motorcycle, with tires and suspension appropriate for the a road vehicle IMO. It's very well behaved, rock solid, and fully engineering. The stealth is a monster of a downhill bike that is out of control fun in all the right ways.

You might want to consider a Zero FX. It is right in-between those two bikes. The FX is wicked, street legal, and fast as frock. 8)

 

[JJ2525]

Thank you very much for the information.

 

[grindz145]

Let us know what you end up with! I sold my car a year ago and I've been all bike in upstate new york. I'm interested in the concept for sure.

 

[Drunkskunk]

My $0.02, Get the Zero FX.

The Stealth is a bicycle. While it opperates like a motorcycle, It's ment to be an extreme toy, not a maintance free comuter vehicle. Its also ilegal to opperate it on the street at those speeds. No turn signals, no brake light, no headlight. Bicycle tires are thin and easy to get flats. Bicycle parts wear out faster.

The Zero is a real motorcycle. it's legal onthe roads and capable of the speeds you need to stay alive in traffic. it has much better range and more charging options. It has a warenty, so if/when things go wrong, you can take it to the shop.

As for parking it in your apartment... They run on the same streets. they get the same dirt on them. And a stealth isn't a smal bicycle. If you can park one indoors, you should be able to park the other.


The Stealth is an awesome bicycle, but its not a motorcycle. Its going to have a hard time being used as one. The Zero is a motorcycle, and makes a much better PMT.

 

[Hillhater]

.... I haven't ridden a bicycle in years, but 40-50 MPH would be sufficiently snappy to avoid being maimed by drivers, yes?

Have you ever ridden a bicycle at 40-50 mph ? ...let alone in traffic !
..It is VERY different to riding at 25-30 mph.
Being tagged off a bike at 20mph is bad, but high survival prospects.
Catching a pot hole or rut ( common) at 50 mph would be a serious accident..one you dont want to have !
If you have the option ($$$'s) ,..get the Zero. !

 

[dogman dan]

A lot may depend on the length of your typical ride. I may be wrong, but I don't think you can make a stealth bomber street legal in California. It may exceed the moped law requirements in full power mode.

So a quick trip may never get you ticketed, while a 30 mile day might be risky. It just all depends on routes, the local cops, etc.

The Zero you can get a plate, and insurance for it. A street legal version of ebike might work fine for you though. Or one at least closer to the legal top speed could fly under the radar better than a bomber. I find 25 mph plenty fast travel for trips under 10 miles. In fact, shorter trips end too soon.

Of course, you can ride the bomber slower. I hear some people can do that. I tend to have problems with that myself. For me, a switch that actually limits my speed works best.

Many ebikes require no pedaling, or even cannot be pedaled at full speed due to gearing being too low. Hubmotors in particular are always in one gear, and only the pedals have shifting gears. You hop on, twist the throttle, and zoom away. Pedaling is done if you enjoy pedaling.

 

[pendragon8000]

I agree with Dogman.

the bomber looks like a small motorcycle to allot of people that dont know what it is so that could cause issues if you ride it like one. but I know of 1 es member that rides his bomber exclusvely on a shared bike path at safe speeds to work every day.

personally i ride my 6kw ebike to work when its not raining , thats 7km there early in the morning and 7km back in the afternoon. i do go 60kph with caution in the morning, i always pedal and have 24watt led on the front (i use it as a day time safety light also) . and extra bright bike light on rear. with that level of exposure to the traffic on the route i take (quite a few big trucks and busses) i wear full face DH hemet and body armor, shin/knee pads, gloves and glasses. still its dangerous but i am moving with the traffic and so that helps. on the way home in the arvo its pretty banked up in places so if its safe ish to do so i go to the front of the que at the lights then take off full throttle (after a quick check no cops around) and leave every one behind , including motorcycles stuck behind cars. i pass about 50-100 cars every day on the way home. and when trucks slow up the road in the morning i pass them to, and the cars stuck behind them when we stop for a red light.

some would say what im doing is very bad. but im really only risking my own safety. the only thing im sorry for is drawing attention to the high powered ebike thing and i hope i dont make it harder for others to deal with the law in my area because of me. but i ride respectfully. and as i said allways pedal. even while braking and still going fast incase someone looks over and im still going fast but decelerating. quite often stand up and sprint off the line when the light goes green to make it look legit to, that seems to work. also a fock off horn so i can warn ppl i am present and they need to give way. also dont get emotional, like too excited and crazy , also not angry and agressive.

maby consider the stealth fighter or bomber if you can ride off road in your commute and park anywhere , in your apartment etc. just be very careful.

 

[JJ2525]

Yeah I really do like the Stealth but the legality of it and questionable durability has me concerned. I know it would cost money, but is it even possible to get a license for it? I'm guessing no.

Perhaps my best bet is a Zero FX or an earlier model S/DS. I think the only drawbacks for me is any Zero is at least more than 2 times heavier than an already pretty heavy Bomber, and you cannot, to my understanding, park a motorcycle wherever you can park a bicycle (which is tremendously appealing to me).

 

[grindz145]

In my experience, motorcycle parking is a bit of an experiment. For the money, the fx is a much better value in my opinion, but if you want to ride on the bike path, you're going to want the stealth.

 

[dogman dan]

Pendragon has a ride that is a good example of what I meant by getting by if it's fairly short. 7 k at 60 kph is a short time window to get seen by cops. I nearly never see a cop going to the flea market 3 miles from my house. I always saw cops going to work 15 miles away.

One of the nicer things about going a street legal ebike, is you can park anywhere bikes are tolerated. I go to Walmart in a car now, and i'm going shit, look how far away I have to park.

Best of both worlds might be to make one that is legal under the moped law. 30 mph I think. Then have a multiple voltage controller on it, so you can push 72v into it on weekend hooligan rides. But do your daily drive legal as a moped.

 

[wesnewell]

You can put together an ebike for <$2000 that will do 50+mph, Like thr stealth, it won't be street legal if you're worried about that. Or you can buy a Brammo motorcycle for less than the Stealth that will outperform it in all aspects and be street legal.
http://www.brammo.com/enertia-plus/
https://www.brammo.com/buy/

 

[JJ2525]

I have no engineering skills whatsoever so compiling my own is probably not the best option for me personally. I've looked into the Brammo's but I don't really like the styling and they operate with a clutch I believe. I will want twist+go with whatever I choose.

The Zero FX is probably the best option for me, realistically. I just don't like the weight difference (FX 5.7 weighs 270 LB compared to 115 on the Bomber) and the increased difficulty in finding safe, secure parking for a motorcycle compared to a bicycle.

 

[grindz145]

The FX 2.8 is a measly 240 lbs. I'd personally much rather have real motorcycle brakes/tires and suspension. But I totally get it, I love an go-anywhere ebike too... Plus 40hp is nice too

 

[wesnewell]

As for security. I'd estimate the ebike is 10 times more likely to get stolen than an electric motorcycle. And if it happens, the cops won't care when you report a bicycle stolen. it happens every day. it's not really a motor vehicle like a motor cycle is in their eyes. The Brammo is also a direct drive with no clutch.

 

[evolutiongts]

Definately possible, I drive my car only on the weekends and thats because I drive to visit my girlfriend (50mi away). Everything else I do, I get there on my ebike. My work is 10miles away and I get can ride there 30mph all the way and barely use up 5AH/15AH 48v battery. Anything 5-10 miles away is a piece of cake. With my lipo battery setup, I can reach 35mph and accelerates fast almost like a motorcycle. Personally for me, a ebike is more enjoying than riding a motorcycle and I've owned and ridden 3 sportbikes, a ebike will out handle a 375-500lbs motorcycle especially in slow speed corners, and I can lock my bike up almost anywhere.

 

[JJ2525]

As for security. I'd estimate the ebike is 10 times more likely to get stolen than an electric motorcycle. And if it happens, the cops won't care when you report a bicycle stolen. it happens every day. it's not really a motor vehicle like a motor cycle is in their eyes. The Brammo is also a direct drive with no clutch.

That's interesting. I have no knowledge on the subject, but would think e-bike+bike lock+bike rack/pole>motorcycle+disc lock

Re: Brammo, I had read something about them being 6-speed but I guess I'm mistaken on that.

 

[wineboyrider]

I think a stealth bomber could/should classify as a moped under California law. I think both have possibilities. Can you register a motorized bicycle in CA? If so then you could probably get by with it as long you have turn signals, brakes, etc....

The new Brammo has a 6 speed transmission just like a ice motorcycle.

 

[wesnewell]

http://www.brammo.com/enertia-plus/
Direct Drive
Brammo Racing
With no clutch to operate or gears to shift, the Enertia Plus is incredibly smooth and simple to ride.

The Empulse model is geared.

 

[pendragon8000]

yeah definately disk brake alarm locks
and
big chain
i think for a stealth bomber or E-motorcycle a gps 3g tracking sim would be worth it, simply due to the up front cost and reilitive risk of theft.
it could be thrown in a ute/truck and it cost allot.

i use a disc lock alarm and big chain but am always in ear shot.

edit

in over a year the alarm has gone of twice with a woman trying to lock her bike next to mine. and the pub own er adjusting the blinds and touching my bike in the process. (btw she's legit as)

 

[dogman dan]

One thing about a bike, it's great because you can just toss it in the back of truck or van and take it places. A motorcycle is just too heavy to do that with.

So with a bike, the thief can pedal off on it, throw it in a van, whatever. The motorcycle has to be ridden away. And the bike hocks easy compared to a motorcycle. Even so, your motorcycle can disappear pretty easy. A friend of mine had three taken in a year. The 4th one he made so ugly he kept it for years.

FWIW, the e bike I park outside walmart all the time? It's ugly as hell and weighs about 150 pounds. It could be pedaled away, but so far nobody wants to.

 

[LockH]

Hehe... "freeways"... when the REAL costs to travel and maintain vehicles, rider/driver/passengers/strangers/other animals and the infrastructure and plants aren't "free" at all to build and maintain, but in fact may be hugely expensive, and may last for decades. Many life times.

Well, your bit about "lower vehicle maintenance + gas costs" are correct (as far as I know most electric vehicles consume zero gasoline, etc. "fossil" fuels). And most smaller/lighter vehicles are waaaay less expensive to acquire and maintain, etc., etc.

EVer been to Pasadena? See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Cycleway



"Becoming part of the Arroyo Seco Parkway (Pasadena Freeway)"?

Anyway... Sorry to get OT.

Re any choice between the Zero S Motorcycle and the Stealth Bomber electric bike?

Well, both products are fairly new, and I haven't ridden either one myself, but if I had to guess, at some point records will show that the Zero kills and injurers riders and other plants and animals faster.

Sorry I could not have been of more assistance, but perhaps if I read more of your message plus other replies here... (I didn't get much past the first paragraph of your first message.)

EDIT: Correction. Today, "hybrid" vehicle are raising a "stink", perhaps in more ways than one (if one were to insert ones nose into the exhaust pipe).

 

[grindz145]

One thing about a bike, it's great because you can just toss it in the back of truck or van and take it places.

I would argue that the beauty of a motorcycle is that you just frocking ride it everywhere and you don't need a truck. I also can't understand why someone would buy an enertia over an FX. The enertia is outdated and overpriced at this point. Not a bad bike on it's own right, but compared to the FX, it's clearly inferior.

 

[LockH]

Ahoy Rochester! (Sailor here from the wrong side of the lake aka "Canada". And I promise that wasn't me that pooped in the lake that time - I only do that maybe once a day, EVery day, plus approx. 6+ million folks. But hey, most folks poop into the air - burn dinosaur fuels for transportation.)

I suspect Master D can carry lots more stuff in his truck (even though I suspect his truck farts something awful.)

And hands down he might win in the "run over a ebiker" contest (operating his truck I mean, not as a pedestrian).