some sellers claiming pedal assist past 20mph is legal

[Blueshift]

I just talked to an ebike seller who stated that the law of 20mph only applies when using the motor by itself and that their bike when using pedal assist at 25+mph is fine...

However I am a bit confused as I have discovered that there are quite a few companies that make this claim. The one i spoke to was stationed in California and said it was compliant in California. However 406b section 3 states...

(3)Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power is used to propel the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.

This to me is still a bit confusing.... does this section of the law even prohibit a pedal assist of 1w if i were to go faster than 20mph?

So which is it? Is pedal assist legal or illegal above 20mph? and if it is illegal then what does it say about some of these businesses pedaling this stuff?(intended pun)

p.s. he also mentioned something about how the state or states were now looking more at the consumer safety regulation and making "that" the law of the road for ebikes. I highly doubt that one.

Thanks in advance for any of your responses

 

[dogman dan]

It depends on the state. Go only to official state websites that give the entire vehicle code to figure it out. Any other source may be wrong, or just want to sell you the bike. Also check local laws for additional restrictions a town may have in place, like riding in the park or beach.

Bottom line most places,,,, obey rules banning motorized bikes from bike trails, don't ride like a jackass on trails if you ride them anyway, stop at stop signs etc, ride a speed you can pedal at typically 25 mph or less, and nobody even notices you have a motor. Just pedaling normally is often all it takes to blend in.

None of this works of course, if you have a scooter type bike that cops seem to hate.

 

[E-bike4life]

Blueshift your reference to California Law is correct. The law for California is that the electric motor bike may NOT reach any speed above 20mph+ with or with out human input. Meaning the bike must be geared to not reach 20mph no matter how fast you pedal on a flat surface. Also another part of the law is it must cut power to motor when brakes are applied.

 

[dogman dan]

I wouldn't sweat the gearing part too much. Standard MTB gearing such as 44 front 14 rear is just about right anyway. For the perfect 20 mph hubmotor bike that still climbs a hill great, 9 continent 2810 winding motor, and 48v. Who's gonna check your wattage, if 20 mph is still your top speed? So amp up if you have a good battery. About 1000-1500 watts is a real sweet spot for that motor. 48v 20 amp controllers will give you about 1200 w max continuous.

 

[Joe Perez]

(3)Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power is used to propel the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.

My interpretation of this differs somewhat from what I perceive E-bike4life's to be.

Specifically, where he states that "the bike must be geared to not reach 20mph no matter how fast you pedal on a flat surface." I differ in that the law does not prohibit riding at speeds above 20 MPH when on human power alone. It is a practical impossibility to gear a bike such that it cannot exceed 20 MPH on pedal power, as you can't predict the strength or cadence of every possible rider.

A much simpler interpretation of the law, and one which I believe to be entirely correct would be to state that "The electric motor may not be engaged at speeds exceeding 20 MPH."

In other words, up to 20 MPH you can use whatever combo of pedal and electric power you wish. If you want to go faster than 20 MPH, you must do so on pedal power alone.


Of course, dogman is really on the right track here from a practical standpoint. Provided that you don't ride like an ass, it's highly unlikely that law enforcement is going to take note of you. I see bicycles with two-cycle gas engines every now and then in Carlsbad, and even though those are illegal altogether, nobody seems to pay them much thought so long as they are being ridden in a reasonable manner.

 

[REdiculous]

(3)Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power is used to propel the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.

So if you don't pedal (or stop pedaling at 20mph) then you can go as fast as you want with the motor? :?

 

[stanz]

So if you don't pedal (or stop pedaling at 20mph) then you can go as fast as you want with the motor? :?

Nope 20mph is the federal limit under electric power:

(b) For the purpose of this section, the term `low-speed electric bicycle' means a two
or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less
than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when
powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170
pounds, is less than 20 mph.

Of course a silly person would say "Hey, I weigh 172 pounds, can I go 30mph?"

With the gearing on my bike I doubt I can do better than 20mph, my legs are too old.

I just looked at the MA dot law at a motorized bicycle is defined as being able to achieve speeds of 30mph but it must not be operated at speeds exceeding 25mph. There is no clear definition of an electric bicycle they just sort of lump electric and gas together. If I read the law correctly I should register my bike as a moped and wear a motorcycle helmet when I ride. Yeah, that's gonna happen.

 

[dogman dan]

But the federal law has nothing to do with operating it.

What's the CA law say, exactly? We can't interperet it without all of it. Looking at just the quote in the first post, I read it like this.

(The motor) is incapable of propelling the bike faster than 20 mph. In my language, say you pedal to 20 mph, then apply full throttle. You won't increase speed any. Take a typical 9 continent kit on 36v, pedal to 20 mph, and engage full throttle and you will increase speed to 23 mph. That ones illegal. Supposing anybody cares,,,,, Aotema kit will take you to 24 mph. For the most part, only the very weak 300 watts or so gearmotors are really limited to 20mph at full throttle on 36v.

Hence my letting you know, you can have a high watt, hill climbing beast of a motor and still go only 20 mph on 48v, if you pick the stuff right. Or you can get a lame 300 watt kit.

 

[REdiculous]

States don't necessarily follow the feds though so the wording the states use may accidentally allow some things that the feds don't..my state intentionally allows 1000w motors, for instance. The sentence the OP quoted had "when human power is used" and that could be taken as a qualifier, thus opening up a loophole allowing motor-only speeds over 20mph. Maybe. IANAL :wink:

 

[dogman dan]

Right. Operating an ebike is ruled only by state motor vehicle codes, plus any additional restrictions a municipality or county might add, like no riding on county owned bike trails or whatever. I don't read the CA law that way though. But they wrote it such that it's pretty open to multiple POV. I still see it as saying the motor cannot power the thing past 20 mph. Nothing saying it couldn't be pedaled faster, or coast faster. Again, can't say much while looking at only a portion of the code. To me, that line says in a not so definite way, "the motor cannot make you go faster than 20 mph" The previous parts of the code may have something in them that makes it more clear, or less clear.

New Mexico has it very nice. No such thing as an ebike. But as a moped, if you have a drivers licence 30 mph is legal. No tags, insurance, but you are supposed to have a drivers licence. I dread the day they wake up, and define an ebike. I can see it now, 200 watts.

 

[stanz]

States don't necessarily follow the feds though so the wording the states use may accidentally allow some things that the feds don't..my state intentionally allows 1000w motors, for instance. :wink:

I think we covered this on another post. Federal law supersedes state law on eBikes, they can make it tougher but not more lax.

 

[dogman dan]

Yup. It's been covered, recovered, dug up, chewed some more, buried in another part of the yard, and the fed law still will never be a state motor vehicle statute. It applies to consumer product saftey, and the selling of ebikes.

Back to CA, from the official state motor vehicle code website, dated 2011. http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc406.htm

Section 2, " Is incapable of propelling the device more than 20 mph on gound level. "

Apparently, once airborne, there is no speed restriction. Who wrote this? Sheeesh. Outsourced it to pakistan? Legislators assistants grew up in China?

In any case, there you go, Ebike= 20 mph max on the motor only. plus in sec 3, the motor can't help past 20 mph. To me sec 3 is meaningless after 2 is complied with. sec 1 says 1000 watts. Again, who's going to check you, when you comply with sec 2?

Additionally, you can go moped, and have 30 mph. Not sure if you need a vin then, but I bet you need a plate. It's CA after all.

Edit, reading much of the rest, thank god I live here. Looks like all ebikes require a licence plate? Very confusing to figure out what applies to a "bike" and what applied to a "moped" in those codes. You all got a legal nightmare there folks. Riding nice, and staying around 20 mph though, should eliminate nearly all problems. Just look like a bike when you see the police.

Lastly, though the fed law is not a vehicle code, I still quote it all the time when talking to folks on a bike trail, or multi use trail. I know it's bullshit, but they don't.

 

[Aconite]

In Ontario, Canada, the motor is simply not allowed to assist you above 32 km/h (20mph). You can human power the bike as fast as you want above 32 km/h (up to the road speed limit). No license or insurance is required, just like a normal bicycle. I think that is a pretty good deal compared to some other places, although I think 32 km/h is a little on the slow side. 35-40 km/h would suit me fine.