SRAM

[mabman]

The technology train has left the station for sure with news almost every day about something of interest it seems. This just in:

Rumour: SRAM and e-Bikes

AMSTERDAM, the Netherlands – In the past few years, the US based component maker has put a lot of effort in the road race and MTB segments. It is now rumoured that SRAM is doing the same in electric bikes…

After presentations that took place at the Taichung Bike week held in the first weeks of December, it is said that next autumn SRAM will re-enter the e-Bike segment.

Experts in electric bikes remember SRAM’s SPARC system; the company’s first attempt to ‘electrify’ bicycles. Rumours indicate that at the upcoming Taipei Int’l Cycle Show the component maker will announce and probably show to selected customers its own e-Bike motor combined with its 3-speed hub.

It is speculated that this new hub motor with integrated 3-speed hub follows the project SRAM is working on this year with auto parts giant Magna and Trek. The result of that project was introduced at last September’s Eurobike Show with the BionX hub motor and integrated SRAM 3-speed hub gear.

It is also rumoured that the new SRAM rear wheel internal geared drive train for e-Bikes will even feature a fully automatic shifting system.

(source: bike=eu)

An automatic 3 spd gear drive that will meet the regs for an auto transmission while giving the anemic 250w motors at least some help via a gear range will be a good thing but I am sure it won't be cheap to start. One can only hope that they will leave enough room in there for the tinkerers to manipulate :wink:

 

[dogman dan]

The transmission hub sounds perfect for pedicabs and cargo bikes, but europe ditching the 20K 200 watt limits would be better.

The same kind of three speed hub on a 700-1000 watt motor would be nice!

I just wish somebody would just make a front suspension fork with steel lowers, or some kind of bolt on steel dropout. Call me wierd, but I like front hubs.

 

[Miles]

This will be similar to the BionX one and the Shimano proposal, I guess..... Internal gears for pedal power only.....

 

[mabman]

I agree that the motor restrictions in place need to be changed, but unfortunately it seems like they want to do even more so. It no doubt galls the bereaucrats to see so many folks using the streets without any fees attached? Would people still flock to e bikes if they had to license and register or just go with a scooter? Time will tell. Hopefully here in the US they will continue to at least allow for more wattage.

Electric Bike Industry Targeted for New Regulations

BRUSSELS, Belgium – The e-Bike industry in Europe as well as in China is targeted by governments to comply with new regulations. In Europe the discussion is currently on the Machine Directive and whether e-Bikes should comply with that standard. In China the government has restated its standards for classifying electric bicycles.

Bike Europe reported in last week’s Newsletter on the December 8 meeting of the European Commission’s working group “Machinery” which had electric bicycles on the agenda. Just 21 days before the new Machinery Directive enters into force, the working group discussed whether the Directive also applies to electric pedal assisted bicycles with a motor output of maximum 250 W and assistance up to 25 km/h.

Yesterday and today there’s a CEN TC 333 meeting taking place in Milan with the issue concerning the Machine Directive on the agenda. The opinion of this Technical Committee, chaired by Siegfried Neuberger from German Industry Association ZIV which also took charge of the EPAC EN 15194 standard for electric bicycles, is that e-Bikes are not to comply with the Machine Directive. The committee will convey its opinion in its dialog with the European Commission.

In China the central government has restated its standards for classifying electric bicycles, raising fears that the rapidly expanding industry could be hit hard.

China has classified e-bikes that weigh over 40 kg or can go faster than 20 km (12.4 miles) per hour as electric motorbikes, a document posted on Sunday on the Standardisation Administration website said, restating 10-year old standards. (www.sac.gov.cn)

In China, motorcyclists must get driving licences and insurance, while e-Bikers until now have not been subject to these costly requirements. "The development of the industry will be limited," said a sales manager at a large e-bike battery maker in Zhejiang province. "(The standards) do not meet consumers' requirements."

China's produced about 21 million e-bikes in 2008 and 20 million units in 2007, figures from the China Bicycles Association show. Monthly production stood at about 1.75 million units on average based on last year's output. China has about 120 million e-Bikes currently.

Electric bike makers said most bikes already weighed more than 40 kg and could go faster than 20 kph. The new rules would hit their business badly as they expected demand to fall, state-owned TV.com said in an recent English report.

UPDATE: the announcement to restate the standards for classifying e-bike met a lot of protest of local manufacturers in China. Therefore the central government in Beijing has decided to postpone the new standards until futher notice.

(source: bike-eu)

 

[mwkeefer]

Remember though - the people here in the US (most of them, myself excluded) are a "bit" (being generous) larger than the peoples elsewhere in the world. When was the last time you saw a 260lb 5'5" chinese person (seriously)?

The reason the 1hp and 170lb limits are both in place in the US law is because on a 20lb bike (motor, battery, etc included and yes it is possible!) with a 162lb rider and 1 hp, I can go 40+ mph. I happen to be the 162 lb rider and when I strip all the gear from my lightest bike that isn't needed, I can get it well over 40mph with 1hp and gears (no freewheeling so my feet are off the pedals since for the test I used a second spaced over chainring for reduction from an RC motor).

The topic caught my attention because I finally got to ride a SRAM Dual Drive last night (on a new dahon mu). I never realized the front derailer is internal to the drive... interesting.

I would assume some form of Grandfathering if they change the laws... using previous transportation examples such as cars, they don't make you stop driving a 69 camaro in California if you have had it since 69... it's exempt from pollution standards and such. I would hope the same would be true of all us eBike people.... I don't live at 1hp now (unless smokey is on my back) but 250w, forget it... I can walk faster!

-Mike

 

[Lyen]

I actually have got the SRAM electric 5 speed hub that comes with the Dahon Roo El. It uses brush motors inside the hub and runs on a 12V 7aH SLA battery. Needless to say the performance is a joke. There is only two options to choose between economy and speed. It is pedelec however so good for the going up hill just in case kind of needs.

 

[mabman]

Remember though - the people here in the US (most of them, myself excluded) are a "bit" (being generous) larger than the peoples elsewhere in the world. When was the last time you saw a 260lb 5'5" chinese person (seriously)

Not sure what this has to do with the price of e-bikes in China? I haven't seen any 260 lb 5'5" anybody riding a bike. There are plenty of big Euro's riding the under the same regs however. What seems to be the issue in Asia is the pure congestion of the matter. There are millions of e-bikes mixing it up with millions of scooters, small motorcycles, cars, trucks what have they and you don't need any more than 250w to crawl around in that type of grid lock. Here in the US the open road awaits and our internal speed meters are set much higher overall than most country's so if we get on anything with wheels it is about how fast we can make it go whether it has a motor or not. And if it does have a motor then one wants it to go as fast as possible eh?

The reason the 1hp and 170lb limits are both in place in the US law is because on a 20lb bike (motor, battery, etc included and yes it is possible!) with a 162lb rider and 1 hp, I can go 40+ mph. I happen to be the 162 lb rider and when I strip all the gear from my lightest bike that isn't needed, I can get it well over 40mph with 1hp and gears (no freewheeling so my feet are off the pedals since for the test I used a second spaced over chainring for reduction from an RC motor).

Without pictures and or video it didn't happen

The topic caught my attention because I finally got to ride a SRAM Dual Drive last night (on a new dahon mu). I never realized the front derailer is internal to the drive... interesting.

I have a 3 x 7 Sachs hub on my 1.5 hp ICE cargo bike. The motor is plumbed in to the drivetrain via a jackshaft and all those gears, even on a 20" wheel, makes 40+ possible on a 60 lb. bike with a 180 lb. rider plus it will pull stumps too And being a gasser it is only doing 10+ over the speed limit restrictions instead of 20...

I would assume some form of Grandfathering if they change the laws... using previous transportation examples such as cars, they don't make you stop driving a 69 camaro in California if you have had it since 69... it's exempt from pollution standards and such. I would hope the same would be true of all us eBike people.... I don't live at 1hp now (unless smokey is on my back) but 250w, forget it... I can walk faster!

I don't assume anything about the government personally. We have nothing to complain about (yet) here in the US of A because for the most part the e-bike niche is so tiny. Sure there are some places that are tougher than others but for the most part unless you are being a jerk on a MAB no one pays much attention to you, well at smokey doesn't but I sure get alot of smiles from folks along the side of the road, way more so than frowns.

Bob

 

[Juiced Riders]

The proposed resurrection of 40kg 20kmh rule has been killed in China... let the ebikes run!
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-12/16/content_9190264.htm