Starting an e-bike company - let's figure out the specs :)

[wiseleo]

Hi everyone,

So I like my new e-bike enough to want to open the floodgates here in US.

My particular bike is nothing special (couldn't climb the last few feet uphill as the battery was dead...) and I bought it as just something to have in the meantime while I figure out something more permanent, but it gets me from train station (BART) to my house in 8-10 minutes vs. a 45-minute walk uphill, including waiting at all red lights. That puts a BIG smile on my face!

I think the market is ripe for an affordable foldable e-bike. Folding bikes are allowed on all transit agencies in Bay Area during rush hour whereas full-size bikes are either not allowed or limited to the two external bike racks. Further, they are not subject to Caltrain's 32-bike limit.

My preliminary specs are still somewhat vague.

Foldable frame
Enclosed chain - I want to ensure we don't create mess
20" or smaller tires - we are trying to create something inobtrusive that can be taken on any transit without any questions. 26" won't do :lol:
36V with choice of power elements from SLA to Lifepo4 with 24V available for those who have no hills or money and 48V for those who have more of both - basically an a-la-carte choice, obviously affects the next couple of points
about 20mph electronically limited speed (with an unmarked jumper to remove the limit, perhaps... )
About 20 miles range
Able to roll while folded
Possibly a range of rear gears
large front sprocket - so you can actually keep up with the motor vs. having a useless tiny sprocket that doesn't help beyond 8mph.

It'll be sourced from China since they have this problem solved long ago.

My expertise is in marketing, so hopefully we can find/manufacture something that's inexpensive and would free up our overburdened parking lots at mass transit stations. I kid you not, it can take me 30 minutes to park at some of these places, which is one of many reasons why I got my e-bike.

As far as branding is concerned, I might brand it Fold-E-Bike or something similar. There are too many possibilities. And yeah, I do own foldebike.com and foldingebike.com

Leo

 

[Miles]

It'll be sourced from China since they have this problem solved long ago.

News to me...

 

[paultrafalgar]

Count how many of your boxes this ticks:
http://www.nano-motor.co.uk/nanobrompton.php

 

[fechter]

As far as I can tell, there are hundreds of bike manufacturers in China. If you can find a model they currently produce that meets your requirements, you can just buy a bunch.

My experience is the currently mass produced models will fall short in one or more categories and will suffer from a high failure rate. If 25-50% of your sales turns into a warranty issue, it will be a headache.

You really need someplace that will build the bike to your specs and be able to make changes in production to address quality issues all without stealing your money. This seems nearly impossible. To be successful, I think you would really need someone at the point of manufacture to monitor quality control and plan ahead for relatively high failure rate. Charge enough for the bike to cover a decent level of service.

 

[wiseleo]

Count how many of your boxes this ticks:
http://www.nano-motor.co.uk/nanobrompton.php

Nifty, thanks

At the very least, a good source for specs.

 

[wiseleo]

As far as I can tell, there are hundreds of bike manufacturers in China. If you can find a model they currently produce that meets your requirements, you can just buy a bunch.

My experience is the currently mass produced models will fall short in one or more categories and will suffer from a high failure rate. If 25-50% of your sales turns into a warranty issue, it will be a headache.

You really need someplace that will build the bike to your specs and be able to make changes in production to address quality issues all without stealing your money. This seems nearly impossible. To be successful, I think you would really need someone at the point of manufacture to monitor quality control and plan ahead for relatively high failure rate. Charge enough for the bike to cover a decent level of service.

Hi Fechter,

Yeah, it will be tricky. However, if executed right it will be successful. One approach would be to have an bicycle components expert analyze the weaknesses. For instance, fork dropouts, weld strength of the frame, derailleur systems etc. I will probably customize them a bit with different parts. It would cost me a lot less to re-gear a bike or to add a custom sheet metal component like my chain cover at the point of origin.

But imagine the possibilities. A fully modular (12-48v) manufacturer-supported platform designed to be highly portable. I intend to sell the units pre-tested and pre-assembled, which will require an appropriate facility. I won't bother with a retail environment though most likely.

So what I am more interested in at this point is figuring out ideal specs. Does what I posted make sense? I think I am keeping the wheels at 20" as that should be small enough and the availability is better.

My initial search turns up 351 possibilities...

 

[Jay64]

One problem that our race team encountered while dealing with a chinese manufacturer to make some parts that my crew chief designed was that they have no problem selling that same part to someone else, even though it is your protected design. Of course they can always copy your design if you have someone else make it, but it is so much easier if you give them all the data to make it. Just FYI. But sounds like a great idea. I hope to see them on the road one day.

 

[vanilla ice]

Whenever possible don't tell them what is it, or what it fits.. farm the individual parts out to different factories, don't have one guy build a whole functioning assembly.

 

[Jay64]

Were are you located? A lot of times you can get cheap work down in SoCal. But I guess if your expertise is in marketing you don't have the tools that they would need. Nevermind.

 

[dogman dan]

It would be great if you could find a really good folding bike, and just add quality ebike components to it, like chrystalite stuff. The trouble is, dumb buyers would flock to the cheap stuff, and then think e bikes suck. Real quality will be a bit hard to sell to all but the experienced buyer. Sill, find a market niche and fill it is the key to sucess. Look at the niche Bill Gates found in about 1976. The PC was a pretty small niche then. A quality ready to ride e bike is a niche with growth potential.

 

[wiseleo]

One problem that our race team encountered while dealing with a chinese manufacturer to make some parts that my crew chief designed was that they have no problem selling that same part to someone else, even though it is your protected design. Of course they can always copy your design if you have someone else make it, but it is so much easier if you give them all the data to make it. Just FYI. But sounds like a great idea. I hope to see them on the road one day.

If it's out there, assume it's been copied.

I am pretty sure I'll find something similar to my specs already in existence. After all, what can I really customize? The motors are off-the-shelf, so are the gearing mechanisms.

I could simply take a 3-battery enclosure and choose to fill it with components of various chemistry be it SLA, NiMH, Lipofe4 etc. Use an identical controller/throttle assembly for all units. In case of a 24V order, simply put a dummy block instead of a 3rd battery and call it an upgradeable unit. 48V customers would be significantly rare as to not concern me all that much, so their power supply could be custom-looking. Basically, the Maglite multi-cell flashlight approach. 2D model, 3D model, 4D model...

Whenever possible don't tell them what is it, or what it fits.. farm the individual parts out to different factories, don't have one guy build a whole functioning assembly.

I am not that concerned about copying. The success of a product like this lies in marketing, not in trade secrets.

Were are you located? A lot of times you can get cheap work down in SoCal. But I guess if your expertise is in marketing you don't have the tools that they would need. Nevermind.

Funny, tools would be a small investment compared to salaries or consulting fees. Marketing is not the only thing I know.
However, opening up a vertically integrated manufacturing plant in USA is probably not in my immediate plans.

I am based in Northern California.

It would be great if you could find a really good folding bike, and just add quality ebike components to it, like chrystalite stuff. The trouble is, dumb buyers would flock to the cheap stuff, and then think e bikes suck. Real quality will be a bit hard to sell to all but the experienced buyer. Sill, find a market niche and fill it is the key to sucess. Look at the niche Bill Gates found in about 1976. The PC was a pretty small niche then. A quality ready to ride e bike is a niche with growth potential.

No offense, but the overall sentiment seems to be that Crystalite is not exactly the best kit. I think I'd call it enthusiast grade.

I don't mind using stuff that breaks, but this is a mass market product and I don't want the headaches that ebikes.ca is evidently experiencing with moisture issues.

If the unit is less powerful but more reliable and still functional for my application, it will work.

This product would be marketed in-person, not over the Internet, although you'd be able to order online, of course, so anyone who thinks the product might suck would have to test-ride it first.

If I wanted to make a high end model, I wouldn't sell as many of them. I won't go with the cheapest supplier either, but I'd like to keep the costs significantly lower than $1000, including a lithium battery pack. SLA and NiMH
models would obviously cost significantly less.

In essence, I am interested in making it a nearly impulse purchase with SLAs and a purchase that requires a bit more thought with an upgraded power source.

In a perfect world, we'd have an e-Birdy that doesn't cost what a Birdy does.

I am not going for ultra portability as my design goal is to simply create something that at least folds in half as that would make it legal to take on-board. In that sense, ultra compactness, that normally costs a significant premium, won't be that important.

Innovations would potentially include a backpack with an integrated battery holder for those who want to have an SLA power source, which is quite heavy. I may include a quick disconnect to enable the rider to simply wear the battery, if that were their preference, in addition to carrying it on the bike. I am also thinking of bike carrying bags or other innovations in that area. Such a bag would make my product discreet enough, though with product advertising on the outside, to not invite any unwanted scrutiny from the transit agencies.

For warranty repair, I'd probably have a simple exchange policy - drop off the malfunctioning drive wheel, pick up a refurbished one. I can employ someone to refurbish the dropped off units in addition to assembling/testing. If margins are high enough, that could be possible.

For power source, the customer would be able to buy an additional power units without headaches or a huge markup.

My target customer lives a few miles away from a transit station and works a few miles away from a transit station such as BART or Caltrain. There are over a thousand cars parked like this every day.

The barrier is that you can't take a full-sized bike on-board during commute hours. You also have to deal with very limited bus capacity as far as full-sized bikes are concerned. In my particular case, for example, I have to walk about 1.5 miles until I have my first bus stop in the first place.

Hence, I am trying to create something comfortable enough for a short ride on a sunny day. My e-bike has a moderately comfy shock-mounted seat and front shocks, for example.

With that said...

Let's stop worrying about the manufacturing problems.

It's not my first business and you can assume that I will get that issue resolved. It's simply not important at this stage. Most businesses never get started because of such worries.

What I would prefer not to wind up with is "Oh! You should have done X", which is why I opened this discussion.

For instance, would you prefer a front hub or a rear hub motor? Perhaps we can entertain the idea of using alternative motors (I see some discussion on R/C stuff) and designing a better drive unit? Should I consider a 16" wheel?

 

[dogman dan]

I find it odd, that you think chrystalite isn't reliable. But I ride Wilderness Experience which is supposed to be unreliable, and thrash the heck out of it with no problems I didn't cause fooling around with it. Anyway, I just meant you should try to put out something you won't go broke warranteeing, buy choosing good components. Some of these moped sise scooters seem to start falling apart on the first ride judging by the posts, so you want to avoid that, or give about a one day warranty like some of those things seem to come with. Anyway, the market seems to be fuller all the time with bottom quality e bikes. They are making millions of em a year. Maybe the moisture issue is a geographic thing, affecting all e bikes there. I hear you will grow moss there if you slow down.

 

[toasterburn]

if I were to start manufacturing an e-bike, I think I would start by making my own kit and market it as a stand alone product and also pre-assembled on a quality bike. that way, people wanting to save money would buy the kit and people afraid of messing with a kit would shell out the extra money to get the already assembled bike.

and this might be off topic, but I think there is definitely a market for a more hassle-free kit. I'd love if someone started selling a box that easily mounts to a bicycle rack and contains the batteries (nimh or lithium), charger (retractable cord?) and controller all in one tight, affordable package. that way you would just buy a box and pick out whatever motor you wanted. I think a lot more people would take the plunge into ebiking if they didn't have to mess with matching controllers, wiring batteries, ect.

 

[wiseleo]

I find it odd, that you think chrystalite isn't reliable. But I ride Wilderness Experience which is supposed to be unreliable, and thrash the heck out of it with no problems I didn't cause fooling around with it. Anyway, I just meant you should try to put out something you won't go broke warranteeing, buy choosing good components. Some of these moped sise scooters seem to start falling apart on the first ride judging by the posts, so you want to avoid that, or give about a one day warranty like some of those things seem to come with. Anyway, the market seems to be fuller all the time with bottom quality e bikes. They are making millions of em a year. Maybe the moisture issue is a geographic thing, affecting all e bikes there. I hear you will grow moss there if you slow down.

I haven't experienced Clyte failures first-hand, but ebikes.ca http://ebikes.ca/troubleshooting.shtml has documented them in abundance. That just looks like bad engineering and a case of "I have to buy this because nothing else is readily available". I am sure there is better technology available on the global market.

My goal is to build a #1 market-leading product with as few warranty headaches as possible. For instance, I may offer an integrated 12V DC handlebar-mounted fan with an optional MistyMate-like device to cool the rider during hot summer. By next summer, we will have a much higher demand for change from automobiles.

The fastest way to that point is to create a product people want and to release premium models based on it. There is insufficient e-bike fleet in USA to support an upgrade market as yet. If you hook someone on the product, they may ask for more, but it has to be demand-driven as otherwise it's difficult to sustain.

Another point to address the copying concern - I might simply make the design open source. There is not much that can be done to protect a design on a bike as they are easy to disassemble and copy, so why bother keeping it secret. Firmware can be retrieved via JTAG. Patents take over 6 years to be granted, for example. A programmable controller connectible via USB could be fun.

 

[Lessss]

I think front hubs would be better. The back wheel is hard enough to change a flat tire. Few are manufactured that way.

 

[wiseleo]

if I were to start manufacturing an e-bike, I think I would start by making my own kit and market it as a stand alone product and also pre-assembled on a quality bike. that way, people wanting to save money would buy the kit and people afraid of messing with a kit would shell out the extra money to get the already assembled bike.

and this might be off topic, but I think there is definitely a market for a more hassle-free kit. I'd love if someone started selling a box that easily mounts to a bicycle rack and contains the batteries (nimh or lithium), charger (retractable cord?) and controller all in one tight, affordable package. that way you would just buy a box and pick out whatever motor you wanted. I think a lot more people would take the plunge into ebiking if they didn't have to mess with matching controllers, wiring batteries, ect.

I agree with you about kit sales, and I'll happily package them as such, but it's easier to trigger an impulse sale with a finished product. I will happily sell components as the box you are interested in. Your requirements are significantly different (higher speed, longer range, full size) from my target market. You can't even buy a decent folding bike inexpensively, never mind an electric one. Dahon makes them and who else? Not that many choices really.

I am actually surprised that this is still in hobby stage in USA. It's obviously mainstream in China and other countries.

Which of the following scenarios do you think would generate more sales?

A hot-looking girl in a t-shirt with FoldEBike.com logo on it riding around on a bright yellow bike with a big FoldEBike.com sticker on its frame and an LCD monitor running a slideshow on the trunk. Zipping through the transit system, answering questions, giving test rides (if the bike veers out of 60' range, the brakes engage). She can take an order or a pre-order on a wireless laptop running on 3G network. I am not a hot-looking girl, but I can hire them.

A kit of parts sold through a website. Now, I am a master at Adwords, so that will also exist.

I think you'll agree that the earlier option is more appealing. That's how you sell these things. Generate buzz, get on the media, do a proper publicity blitz.

In fact, when I was purchasing my e-bike, I skipped the kits entirely. I knew they would give me more for less, but I needed something immediately. When I picked up my e-bike, again I didn't want to bother with assembly. There was a demo bike with a couple of scratches on it but it was charged. I just took that and went on my way. Knowing how I ride, those scratches would be there in a day or two anyway...

It doesn't have to be expensive to bring something like this to market. I am thinking of using accounts receivable financing based on pre-orders. I will also have an incentive program whereas referrals will actually make you money and save the buyer some money as well. How much that might be will depend on my profit margin.

 

[wiseleo]

I think front hubs would be better. The back wheel is hard enough to change a flat tire. Few are manufactured that way.

So one vote for front hubs.

Cool.

 

[toasterburn]

another thing, I think there is a fundamental problem to overcome that differs the china and usa market. in china, an electric bike would be an obvious substitute for a car. in the states though, the vast majority would not even contemplate trading their car for bicycle, electric or otherwise. this might change a bit in the next few years as gas continues to rise, but at the moment I think the american consumer will only see an e-bike as a fancy toy/gadget. if you could price your bikes in the $300-$400 range then I think people would buy them in droves because that's a reasonable price to pay for a hi-tech toy. anything over that though and people will wonder why they're paying so much more then a regular bicycle from wallmart ($100-$150)

just my two cents anyway.

 

[wiseleo]

another thing, I think there is a fundamental problem to overcome that differs the china and usa market. in china, an electric bike would be an obvious substitute for a car. in the states though, the vast majority would not even contemplate trading their car for bicycle, electric or otherwise. this might change a bit in the next few years as gas continues to rise, but at the moment I think the american consumer will only see an e-bike as a fancy toy/gadget. if you could price your bikes in the $300-$400 range then I think people would buy them in droves because that's a reasonable price to pay for a hi-tech toy. anything over that though and people will wonder why they're paying so much more then a regular bicycle from wallmart ($100-$150)

just my two cents anyway.

Agreed entirely. Hence the SLA option is there for the budget-conscious.

I really want to make it available as an impulse buy at the low end. That's roughly in sub $400 range. You can't even buy a folding bike at that price easily.

Dahon's current offerings for US market for non-electric models start at $429 for the Mariner D7. They have less expensive models for the global market.

West Marine has a Dahon Getaway 20 for $250, but it's single speed. Good for electrification on the front wheel, bad for commuters who have hills in the way and a dead battery. I see them as low as $160 actually, but again that's buying online, paying for shipping, and most of all...WAITING...

Then again, I am in Silicon Valley, so it may be easier to sell here. I am pretty sure the market opportunity exists.

 

[wiseleo]

OK, here's what I have so far...

Since there's not much out there in USA, I might as well start with a dream spec, review some bids, and get more realistic later.

Suggestions?

Frame
• Ultralight
o For lighter weight riders who want a lighter bike
• Light
o For normal riders up to about 100kg
• Heavy
o For riders who want to lose weight, can use heavier materials
Suspension
• Front shocks
• Shock-mounted seat
Seat
• Comfort is key
Folding
• Prefer chain to be hidden between folded wheels
• Prefer no sharp or protruding parts, especially while folded
• Prefer rubberized carrying handle
• Require matching carrying bag with our company information imprinted or embroidered
• Prefer folding pedals
Electric motor
• 20 MPH minimum capability
• 30MPH capability desired as California is legal up to 30MPH with the right driver's license if vehicle is qualified for CVC 406(a)
• Prefer front hub motor for easy service
• Open to experimental motors (high RPM to planetary gear etc)
• May consider rear hub motors
• Require capability to support at least 48V and design ability to run at 72V for offroad applications
• Waterproof in case of immersion
Battery modules
• SLA
• NiMH
• LiFePO4
• A123
• Not interested in LiCoO2 due to fire risk
Battery container
• Universal for 24V and 36V applications. Configured with a "dummy" battery unit in 24V application, with an easy upsell opportunity to 36V by replacing the "dummy" battery unit with an additional 12V battery module.
• Waterproof in case of immersion
Charger
• Prefer a universal charger capable of charging all types of supported power sources. Must require user to select the correct battery type and require user to confirm selection before beginning to charge.
• Fast charger is desired
Controller
• 36V universal for 24V and 36V applications
• 48V premium option
• Higher voltage options should be available
• Prefer ability to program the controller using a PC
• Dealer unlockable for upper speed limits for 30mph licensed drivers and offroad applications
• Waterproof in case of immersion
Wheel size
• 20" appears to be ideal
• Will consider 18" and 16"
Tire
• Must be equipped with self-sealing inner tubes
• Hybrid tread
Rear hub
• Multispeed, geared for moderate hills
• Premium model option for internal gear hub
Crank sprocket
• Of sufficient design to enable the rider actively assist the bike while riding at 20MPH
• Diameter and number of teeth to be determined
• Chainway is enclosed to the maximum extent possible
Lights
• All LED based and powered from vehicle's battery, street legal moped equipment
• Require ability to power the headlight and the tail light with batteries in an emergency
• Headlight rated for riding safely at the speed of 30MPH in pitch darkness
• Front turn signals
• Rear turn signals
• Integrated flashing or solid red in rear turn signals instrument cluster
• Ability to activate flashing lights using both turn signals for emergency purposes
Handlebar equipment
• All of this equipment should be quickly removable
• All equipment must be water-resistant
• Buzzer
• Gear shifter
• Basic speedometer/odometer/lap timer device
• Battery discharge indicator
• Left hand side rear view mirror
• Turn indicator switch
• Kill switch to shut off all power to the system
• Throttle
Auxiliary battery
• Riders may want to extend range by rack-mounting an additional battery of up to 36V in parallel with main unit by a means of a quick disconnect
• or by wearing a backpack with the battery by a means of a quick disconnect
Fenders
• Both wheels must be equipped with fenders and mudguards
Heavy duty rack
• The rear rack must have a sufficient load bearing capacity as to support carrying an auxiliary battery
Accessories
• Carrying backpack for the main battery pack
• Dual backpack for auxiliary battery
• 12V cigarette lighter jack for standard 12V accessories with two outlets
• 12V DC powered handlebar mounted fan, potentially with MistyMate-like capability
• Basic bike tools and patch kit
Parts
• Motors in a pre-laced wheel
• Standalone motors
• Controllers
• Safety electronics
• Battery modules
• Battery containers
• BMS
• Chargers
• Other common parts

 

[toasterburn]

I'll be very impressed if you can fit most of that into a sub $400 package. not sure how I feel about turn signals, I wouldn't use them if I had them to save the battery but that's just me. and you might want to consider a key ignition, some kits have them and it's a cool touch I think. and who knows, maybe some buyers would see that it comes with keys and start to view the bike as a form of transportation like their cars or motorcycles instead of just a toy.

 

[TylerDurden]

I am actually surprised that this is still in hobby stage in USA. It's obviously mainstream in China and other countries.

Americans are wimps. Riding would be:

• Too hot
  Too cold
  Too rainy
  Too windy
  Too smoggy
  Too bumpy
  Too dirty

Hand me a beer and the remote.

 

[wiseleo]

I'll be very impressed if you can fit most of that into a sub $400 package. not sure how I feel about turn signals, I wouldn't use them if I had them to save the battery but that's just me. and you might want to consider a key ignition, some kits have them and it's a cool touch I think. and who knows, maybe some buyers would see that it comes with keys and start to view the bike as a form of transportation like their cars or motorcycles instead of just a toy.

I probably won't be able to offer a dream bike at that price level, but nothing prevents me from having a range of models. I posted a request for bids based on that wishlist and we'll see what happens. For an SLA-powered bike, that can probably be done. I got some preliminary quotes and there is plenty of margin to support a $400 steel-framed SLA folding e-bike. A very basic bike can be offered at that price level without much difficulty.

There is an argument for using turn signals... otherwise you extend your left arm to pass, clearly into a traffic lane, and your right hand is on the throttle. I can see a problem with that.

Turn signals are required for 30mph operation in CA, as I understand it. My e-bike has keys... 4 of them... for 3 different locks, including a mislabeled ignition lock. And, yes, they are all different.

Realistically, SLA will be more of a gateway drug as people will get hooked and will get tired of carrying SLA batteries. Although, with a rollable chassis and kneeling buses weight shouldn't be much of a problem. That's why I am building in upsells to other power sources from the initial point of sale. 24V to 36V is bound to be a popular upgrade.

Let's be realistic... we are talking about one car payment and one insurance payment here for a decent lifepo4 model that is more usable.

 

[Pete]

I have to admit I am torn on the idea of SLA on the base model. I do realise it is a chicken and the egg thing, but with SLA you are basing your concept on the premise that your customers will love the ride and want better chemistry. I think there will be a fine line between low cost and poor performance. If the SLA's don't inspire your customers in the way you plan, then you have a relatively unhappy who has just dropped at least 400 on (in their eyes ) a gutless piece of junk. I know I am stating the obvious, but you need that sort of publicity like a hole in the head. I think you would be pretty hard pressed to then convince them to spend more dollars on better chemistry.

I do like the try before you buy concept, maybe it would be worthwhile having interchangeable battery packs so you could let the prospective customer experience the performance difference between varying chemistry's. Try to keep everything modular and interchangeable. In the long term it would help open up the optional upgrade market

I think you are right to breakdown the price into a format the the average driver can afford. It is easier to think in terms of a months gas / insurance and you have paid for the bike.

The bike has to be mechanically rugged, reliable and simple to operate. Remembering that the very people you are trying to get onto your bikes are not bike riders so you have to dumb it down.

Maybe go with a geared hub and single front sprocket. Not sure if you can get gear hubs with coaster brakes? But if they are around you would have a single front brake lever and probably a twist shifter. Removes all the derailure related maintenance, and only two cables to worry about. This forces you into a front motor configuration though.

 

[wiseleo]

I have to admit I am torn on the idea of SLA on the base model. I do realise it is a chicken and the egg thing, but with SLA you are basing your concept on the premise that your customers will love the ride and want better chemistry. I think there will be a fine line between low cost and poor performance. If the SLA's don't inspire your customers in the way you plan, then you have a relatively unhappy who has just dropped at least 400 on (in their eyes ) a gutless piece of junk. I know I am stating the obvious, but you need that sort of publicity like a hole in the head. I think you would be pretty hard pressed to then convince them to spend more dollars on better chemistry.

I do like the try before you buy concept, maybe it would be worthwhile having interchangeable battery packs so you could let the prospective customer experience the performance difference between varying chemistry's. Try to keep everything modular and interchangeable. In the long term it would help open up the optional upgrade market

I think you are right to breakdown the price into a format the the average driver can afford. It is easier to think in terms of a months gas / insurance and you have paid for the bike.

The bike has to be mechanically rugged, reliable and simple to operate. Remembering that the very people you are trying to get onto your bikes are not bike riders so you have to dumb it down.

Maybe go with a geared hub and single front sprocket. Not sure if you can get gear hubs with coaster brakes? But if they are around you would have a single front brake lever and probably a twist shifter. Removes all the derailure related maintenance, and only two cables to worry about. This forces you into a front motor configuration though.

Hi Pete,

I am very aware that I am planning a mass-market product. I did plan a single front sprocket. It would be a large one since presumably the thing will climb on its own. An e-Bike would, in my opinion, be fine with a 3-speed gearset as the rest are covered by the motor. Perhaps have one really tall gear on the back for nasty hill climbs. There are internal gear options available, but they are relatively expensive. I won't disclose wholesale pricing, but a Shimano Nexus 8 is an affordable upgrade. It would bump up retail price quite a bit though. Internal 3-speeds might be less expensive. It would create a cleaner look of the bike and make it look cheaper and less attractive to thieves.

SLA vs. the rest. SLA bikes will work for those who ride around the neighborhood mostly and take transit sparingly. They would use the folding feature for antitheft. Lithium will be the obvious choice for the daily transit commuter as the system will be much lighter.

I'll give you an example, someone sent me a message on eBay that she's considering buying the same bike I just did and asking what I thought about it. Her requirements are less intensive than mine are but she was concerned about being able to handle it as it's a heavy machine. NiMh could be a good auxiliary choice. If they can afford auxiliary, I think they'll be partially hooked on making it weigh less.

I was talking to a lady at a fast food joint. She lives less than 2 miles from work, up a 6-degree hill. She spends $240/mo on gas due to her ancient car drinking gas like an alcoholic and constant gridlock. She was very intrigued by my bike and asked for contact information when they are available. My bike is noticeable for being unusual due to its bright green color and battery-in-frame. So the frame is very wide.

SLA bikes would also work for customers who work up to 30 miles from their house if by surface roads (that's roughly 18 freeway miles). With an optional second pack for extended distance, it is a cheap way to commute to work, fold the bike out of sight, and arrange for a way to charge it in the corporate garage. Those customers may actually prefer larger wheeled models, such as 26", but we can't please everyone out of the gate. Corporate fleet sales could be fun. College campus sales as well.

I am looking at how to acquire and hookup an auxiliary battery already. Once the mod bug bites, it bites hard...Thankfully it's less expensive to mod an e-bike than it is to mod a car. My battery will probably cost as much as the damn bike did.

I am getting some quotes from manufacturers, but they are not making quite what I want. Lithium bikes should be possible under $800 retail based on what I see, but then there's the "which Lithium" issue. I am not touching anything that is a fire hazard. I see plenty of Lifepo4 suppliers anyway so I'll figure it out. SLA bikes should be possible under $400 retail.

One of my selling points will be zero headaches. If they have a flat, we'll fix it for free at our facility. After all, inner tubes are pretty inexpensive wholesale. If the motor malfunctions, we'll replace the entire wheel with a refurbished unit and send the customer on his way. Free brake checks and air pressure adjustments. Free tuneups every 6 months. It's nice touches like this that will make our relationships closer.

Then again, I can initially sell some standard stuff (max speed 16mph) and go to higher power custom designs once I have a customer base. That way my time to market is instant. I can order a couple of samples today and start test marketing.

I am specifying a modular power train with individually upgradeable components. That is my highest priority on this product. I want the customer to upgrade whenever it pleases her.

The first website up will be http://www.FoldingElecticBicycleOnTransit.com. It won't be typed by anyone, but should score well in search engines. http://www.FoldEBike.com is a more human-friendly URL.

Right now that site is basically a leads collector. Registering on it will put the person on a mailing list. I will be running some tests with Google to prepare for product launch.