Suggestions for a cheap 10S controller for a small sensorless geared hub motor

[kalamees]

I got an old E-move ebike with sensorless (3 wires only) front hub motor and Tongxin controller. It's 7S and probably not more than 7A, if that as it doesn't pull very strong. No display, only some interesting "powershift" lever (it either switches or gradually increases to higher power mode, not sure, here's the link to diagram, it's exactly what I have). Motor looks like this, (image from internet):

I wanted to replace the controller for a 10S one (I'm assuming that existing one will not handle fully charged 10S battery at 42V) to be able to (build and) use 10S batteries and chargers and I wanted to ask for suggestions before ordering wrong things from aliexpress.
What would be the best and cheapest controller that has continuous 7-10A output and can drive sensorless motor? No real need for display but it can be included if not significant part of the total cost. It's kinda weak so could be ridden with just one PAS level, maximum one (so no need for display), although ability to use torque sensor would be much better option. Controller should have ~210rpm max limit or there could be some way to adjust settings (it's 26" wheel and 25kmh legal limit). No voltage monitoring or at least low enough to not kick in before BMS (I'm torturing old cells down to 2.8-2.7V).

I can solder and crimp so it doesn't matter too much if connectors are "wrong". I just don't want to order something that doesn't work or overpay for something when there's a different, cheaper option that I didn't know about it.

PS. I have no idea why people refer to battery types in volts, instead of series number (and chemistry, if significantly different from 3.6-3.8V nominal) and thus I'm referring to batteries and voltages as S.

 

[docw009]

I believe the controllers with learning wires can learn to run sensorless motors. Look for a controller that has the S866 display Those usually have the two self learning wires. They seem to be $32-40 USD in the 13-15A range. That is not what I call cheap, but everything is expensive these days,

I have a Brainpower controller like the above and also have a sensorless motor ebike , but the bike is in storage. Otherwise, I''d make sure it works, Google AI says it will, but maybe someone else here has experience.

 

[E-HP]

The self learning function has many names, depending on how it was translated from Chinese. I believe BrainPower uses "intelligent recognition" on their labels and connector diagrams. The S866 is also used with JN/DC Moto controllers. Some JN controller support self-learning, so you could add that to your search. If you search on JN, I'd add "dual mode" to the search criteria.

"Learning/Learning Line/Self-study/Self-learning/Automatic Detection/Automatic Identification/Auto Learn/Intelligent Recognition"

 

[neptronix]

PS. I have no idea why people refer to battery types in volts, instead of series number (and chemistry, if significantly different from 3.6-3.8V nominal) and thus I'm referring to batteries and voltages as S.

Even though ~3.6v nominal batteries are most common, there's plenty of 3.2v, 3.7v, even 2.4v cells out there in use in ebikes, so it's nice to know total nominal voltage instead of series count.

 

[kalamees]

Brainpower controller

Is this like this one https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005008652474913.html ?

controllers with learning wires can learn to run sensorless motors

So it should just work leaving hall wires unplugged? Any issues with that, like hitting speed limit because it can't sense motor speed or something similar?

On this note, how much better are motors with hall sensors (or any position indication)? Does it allow for more efficiency or less noise or any other benefit, in addition to indicating speed?

 

[Apartunis]

"Dual mode" is jargon for a controller that works with or without hall sensors. Any dual mode controller has self learn wires. Some don't support PAS. None that I have ever seen supports torque sensing.