Tech specs for XMUS hubs+controllers -comparison to Cute100

[Kelp]

Does anyone have technical specifications for the XMUS hubs [and kit],? I'd like to compare them to the cute 100.

http://www.mxusebikekit.com/shop_show.asp?cid=47
http://www.mxusebikekit.com/shop_show.asp?cid=46

The spec download on the Cute100 are here, seeking same for the XMUS to compare:
http://www.ecitypower.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=66

Does anyone know anything about the XMUS controllers? They look very compact and tidy which appeals to me. They have LCD interface also - another plus.
Any reliability info regarding the XMUS and cute100 would be appreciated.
I have been told Cute motors have power cable on the non chain side which is preferable. Don't know about the XMUS.

I am looking for a discrete-powered bike [black rear hub <130mm dia] for my all black cannondale badboy 9 [700c with disc brakes and 8 speed cassette]. I was originally going to get the cytronex [tongxin] kits but delays in their release and further research have changed my views [despite likelyhood that cytronex's own controllers seems to get around the 'flaws' with Tongxin motors, it seems given the good reviews of Cytronex bikes]. I commute 20km each way on mostly flat terrain but often in strong headwinds. Looking to go 25-30kmh in a 20knt headwind [ compared to 10-15kmh now] but only need pedal assist [ still want some exercise]. Happy to charge battery either end to keep battery small.

 

[motomech]

I thought you were going to research it.
Well, I guess it's easier to re-post under a different title and wait for the info to be delivered up.

The first two links to the factory webpage are new kits that nobody has used[or at least have reported]. Chinese manufacturers sometimes feature products on their webpage that are not available. Welcome to the world of obscure Chinese product information. I don't know of anybody who has bought anything directly from the MXUS factory, it could be you would have to buy a lot of 100 pieces. Feel free to contact them for specifics and let us know about price and availability of these kits and in that way contribute to the pool of info.

Ecity Power is really BMS Battery and displays some products that are available though BMS Batt. and others that are not. I'm not sure why the Ecity Power website exists, except perhaps to further confuse us.

Here's what I know about the MXUS and Q100 kits that are readily available though Cell_man and BMS Battery.

Controllers- Although they are from different manufacturers and have slightly different features, they are basicly the same size with the same ratings. The MXUS and 36V/350W version from BMS B. max out at 17 to 18 Amps and have 63V caps. I believe the 24V/250W controllers max out at 14 Amps.

The motors-The MXUS and 24V/250W models from BMS use single plane planetary gears[one sun gear w/ 3 planet gears], while the Q100 use two sets of gears that are "stacked"[search Cute Q85 to see the configuration].
Reliability? Hard to say,the MXUS has been tested to destruction here[by running three times the rated power though it], but that is of little value to users looking for assist. No one has worn them out yet and no parts , other than genaric bearings, are available. That's what you get with a sub $200 wheel kit.
The Q100 comes in four versions in regards to no-load rpm speed at 36V. The one for your speed requirement is,
36V/350W "slow 201"-230 rpm. 18 to 19 mph on 36V, 21 to 22 mph on 48V. Although, you could use the,
24V/250W "slow 201-265 rpm[my est.]
The MXUS has a no-load speed of 255 rpm @39V[test-Cell_man] , 19 to 20 mph on 36V, 22 to 23 mph on 48V.
The Q100 motor will accept up to a 9-speed freewheel cluster and the wires exit the left side.
The MXUS will accept up to a 7-speed cluster and the wires exit the right side.
Overall, they are the same size, but the Q100 motor weighs less, 2.3 Kg[BMS B.'s number, take with a grain...]vs. 3 Kg. If for no other reason than motor mass, one would assume that the MXUS could tolerate a little more power before self-destructing.
Wheel builds-In the past, the Cell_man's whl. builds have been considered to be much better than BMS Battery's, which is not to say that the BMS Battery's builds are not serviceable. But they may require some "tweaking".
Real-life considerations for battery selection-Cell_mans A123 batteries are highly regarded and powerful, but more than what is needed for 20 mph. assist.
Bottom line-The MXUS motor and Cell-man's whl. build tip the scales and probably make it the "better" kit, if you are happy with a 7-speed freewheel.
But if you source a "budget" battery from another vendor, you will pay full shipping twice.
The Q100 and a "budget" battery can both be had from BMS B., consolidating the shipping costs and may make it the "better value" kit. There are mixed reviews concerning the BMS Battery's LiCoMg batteries.

QUOTE-"I am looking for a discrete-powered bike [black rear hub..."

Yes, we know you want a black hub. Like I suggested before, paint it...or buy the MXUS kit from Amped Bikes or Hightekbikes.

 

[Kelp]

Thanks Motomech,
More info than I could have wished for! I didn't realise MXUS hubs were so new to the market. I received a reply today from Flora and MXUS. She seems very helpful but the specs were not as detailed as Cute's. I will attach the pics/ details I was provided.

Will wait to hear from Cellman before deciding which way to go, but inclined towards the MXUS kit- as I like the LCD interface and ..black control gear! Will need to change my sprockets though as I am running an 8 speed but the disc brake version of the MXUS only accommodates 7 as you know. I am not bothered about the loss of some gears but hope I don't need to change shifters also? View attachment product descrption.pdf

 

[motomech]

Thanks Motomech,
More info than I could have wished for! I didn't realise MXUS hubs were so new to the market. I received a reply today from Flora and MXUS. She seems very helpful but the specs were not as detailed as Cute's. I will attach the pics/ details I was provided.

Will wait to hear from Cellman before deciding which way to go, but inclined towards the MXUS kit- as I like the LCD interface and ..black control gear! Will need to change my sprockets though as I am running an 8 speed but the disc brake version of the MXUS only accommodates 7 as you know. I am not bothered about the loss of some gears but hope I don't need to change shifters also? View attachment 2

View attachment 1

The MXUS motor available now first became available in early '10 though Amped Bikes and Hightekbikes. Cell_man didn't offer that motor till later, after I had bought mine from HTB.

QUOTE-"I received a reply today from Flora and MXUS. She seems very helpful but the specs were not as detailed as Cute's. I will attach the pics/ details I was provided."

I wouldn't lament the lack of info compared to what BMS Battery provides. Must of what BMS Battery supplies is meaningless anyhow.
The motor pictured in the latest link you provided is totally new and un-known to the Western World. Note that the wires exit from the motor case cover, ala the BPM front.

QUOTE-"Will wait to hear from Cellman before deciding which way to go, but inclined towards the MXUS kit- as I like the LCD interface and ..black control gear! "

Cell_man does not sell that kit. He sells the original basic kit,

http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i16.html

Once again, a can of black spray paint will be your best friend. Black is far and away the easiest color to paint out of a can and get good results.
And I wouldn't fret the loss of the LCD display, those types of things in the cheap kits tend to be rather junky and unreliable. Get the Cycle Analyst instead or if you want to be really stealth, use no display or a small volts meter.

QUOTE-"Will need to change my sprockets though as I am running an 8 speed but the disc brake version of the MXUS only accommodates 7 as you know. I am not bothered about the loss of some gears but hope I don't need to change shifters also?"

Actually, you are mistaken about this as well. The existing MXUS rear will only accept a 7-speed, but the MXUS webpage indicates that the motor they are displaying will take both a disc and a 9-speed. Perhaps they have re-designed the motor housing to extend the available cluster width to 40 m/m.
You are in a better position to make do with your existing 8-speed components than I was with a 9-speed. The 8-speed derailleur chain, etc. will likely work will a 7-speed. You may have to "futz" with the indexing. Even better, since you are only looking to get to 20 mph, you can use a Shimano Hyper-Glide w/ the 13 tooth sm. cog and still pedal along. This will alow you to avoid the clunky, noisy DNP unit.

IMO, all this gear stuff is a moot point. Looking at your bike, I would front mount a MXUS gear and leave the rear drive-line intact. Low-powered front motors on pavement are really sweet and no one will notice a frt. motor that size any more than a rear one.
Then, with that big triangle, I would use the EVFalcon bag
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29211
and one of C.man's 39V triangle battery packs[not listed, but he will make one for you]. Then, put the extra wires in a small handlebar bag w/ the controller in a mesh pocket[to retain some air circulation, although at 39V/17A, it won't heat up much]. Any perceived unstealthiness from the frt. motor install will be more than compensated by the lack of wiring running the lenght of the frame.
The MXUS geared on 39V will put you in the 20 to 21 mph range and the stout battery will really help to keep your speed from being pulled down by headwinds.
You will quickly want to use to extra range a C'man A123 battery will provide.
This would be "plug and play"[ask C.man to provide extra battery connector wire lenght to reach the handle bars, you would want to exit the back of the EV bag and route it between the top of the bag and the bottom of the bike's top tube. The bag straps will hide it nicely. C.man should know to make the batt. connector compatible with the controller connector]and the whole install will be very stealthy.

I would be interested in any additional info that the MXUS factory sends you.

 

[Kelp]

Thanks again.
Latest news is that Cell_man confirmed he doesn't supply this new kit. So now its down to whether I want to be a guinea pig and try the new kit [yeah front hub is going to be simpler] or go the Cute100 rear and spray it black. Will report back when I have made up my mind!

 

[motomech]

Have you received a price on the new kit from MXUS?

 

[Kelp]

Kit: $190us excl battery.
Freight: $280 DHL china ....more expensive than BMS [$163] who can use DHL Hong Kong being just across the border one presumes [ MXUS are near Shanghai] . Q100 kit is cheaper also at $128.

 

[motomech]

Thanx for checking
Now we know why nobody is buying factory direct from MXUS.

 

[neptronix]

Ampedbikes and ebikekit are using these MXUS geared hubs.
They've been around since i think late 2009? not new..

Q100 cannot handle as much power as far as i know, and are less common.

Definitely not quick motors - good for assist, that's about it.

It's funny that cell_man's price is lower than MXUS's. It's a more basic kit, but i think the controller may be more powerful. You can get an 18 amp controller, which will provide a pretty decent level of acceleration if you are pedaling.

 

[Kelp]

Another contact has told me he has a bafang SWXH 300 rpm 36v 350w motor driving a 700c wheel and can achieve 28km/h with moderate pedaling in a honking headwind. With no/little wind 32-35km/h. The Q100 is available in a 325rpm version: seems like this may give me the speed I want, but do you think the motor will last, and give me some assistance up a moderate hill or two?

 

[DAND214]

The new Qute 128 is nothing compared to the 2 year old ones. A q100 in a 700 wheel might be pretty lame. I i have a new style 128 on a basic Schwinn with 10s lipo and it does the speed limit 20mph, but don't expect much assist off the line or up hills.

Wish I could get gears for my old Q128's, as posted earlier there is no support for Cute motors, no help from BMS or Ananda which makes them.

Bafang, Mac you can get help. I also have a Bafang 8FUN and on 48v tops out at 22. All in 26" wheels. Mac 8T rocks on 15s lipo at 35+ and climbs hills like there flat.

Black Mac, black spokes and rim with a big disc and it's not too noticeable.

I also have BMC V1 in a 700 wheel, 22mph on 36mph.

as the rest said small gear hubs = small assist.

Go with Cell_Man before BMS.

Dan

 

[motomech]

Another contact has told me he has a bafang SWXH 300 rpm 36v 350w motor driving a 700c wheel and can achieve 28km/h with moderate pedaling in a honking headwind. With no/little wind 32-35km/h. The Q100 is available in a 325rpm version: seems like this may give me the speed I want, but do you think the motor will last, and give me some assistance up a moderate hill or two?

Johnrobholmes can do you a bafang rear.
He is a member here and his wheel builds are said to be the best
ck Holmes Hobbies.

It comes with a black Mini-Stealth controller.
He also sells parts for the Bafang 3 Kg. motors, the only mini motor to have parts available.
It would be a good way for you to go.
you want a slow wind, something around 230 rpm.

 

[neptronix]

Another contact has told me he has a bafang SWXH 300 rpm 36v 350w motor driving a 700c wheel and can achieve 28km/h with moderate pedaling in a honking headwind. With no/little wind 32-35km/h. The Q100 is available in a 325rpm version: seems like this may give me the speed I want, but do you think the motor will last, and give me some assistance up a moderate hill or two?

That motor is intended for a smaller wheel, really. At the max speed it will achieve, it will need 15-20 amps constant on 36v, which may be overkill for the motor if you have lots of hills. It also will be very sluggish. If 325rpm is what you're aiming for, get yourself a ~250rpm motor and stick 48v or higher on it, you'll get much better results.

 

[quaz]

My first build used MXUS "antiwater" kit, rear geared hub with 9 speed casette and the sensorless controller that came with the kit. My kit was EU spec, so I had to connect and use PAS to get it working. Also had the throttle connected, which only worked when pedalling though. So first few hundred km it was good, until I started to have some problems with the controller. Didn't seem like sync issues, something other weird was going on.

Then bought a LYEN MK2 12fet sensorless, to gain total control with amp limits and stuff, and to get it working with throttle only if wanted to. Again got few hundred good km:s, until the casette broke off the side from the hub because of too hard pedalling That was the second geared rear hub I broke from the same place, other was Bafang or something. So, the motor was useless, got another one as a warranty replacement, this time I took the front version hoping that it would be more durable. It has some few hundred km:s under its belt, and so far so good. With 12S lipo hot off the charger, 26in rim, top speed with no pedalling is about 34km/h. My friend has a Q100, and it is a lot heavier than my MXUS. Front hub with 26in alu rim weighs in at ~3.5kg.

My thoughs on this kit is that the motor is good and light, but everything else is useless if you want anything more than a pedelec-bike.

Bike with rear hub, MXUS controller, no batteries in photo

Rear hub weight with 9spd casette

Current setup, front wheel hub, 12S1P 5ah lipo, LYEN MK2 sensorless controller

 

[Kelp]

Thanks Quaz
Great to hear from someone who has purchased an XMUS 'Antiwater kit'.
Sounds like front motor is going to be less trouble all around. Can I ask what is wrong with the PAS euro setup? I don't mind pedalling a bit and it surely reduces a lot of strain on the motor through the acceleration phase? The XMUS can be made in any RPM I want, so I'd probably go with a 250-260rpm setup.

Would the Q100 / 201 rpm/36v in a 700c wheel with 10amp controller get me up to 25kmh on the flat at least?

 

[quaz]

Thanks Quaz
Great to hear from someone who has purchased an XMUS 'Antiwater kit'.
Sounds like front motor is going to be less trouble all around. Can I ask what is wrong with the PAS euro setup? I don't mind pedalling a bit and it surely reduces a lot of strain on the motor through the acceleration phase? The XMUS can be made in any RPM I want, so I'd probably go with a 250-260rpm setup.

Would the Q100 / 201 rpm/36v in a 700c wheel with 10amp controller get me up to 25kmh on the flat at least?

Well, at first I thought that euro-pas would be the way to go for me too (after testing a PAS bike for ~10km). But then when my own setup was ready and taken into use, I soon realized that the pas system isn't that sophisticated and many times with pas things got frustrating because the motor would turn always when pedaling. It just felt stupid at straights when pedaling over motor speeds that the motor would still turn, and when making small maneuvers with the bike the motor would turn, and continued to do so for few seconds after pedaling stopped. Even though motor would stop when a little brake was applied, it just annoyed me.

Now my setup only has throttle to control the motor, and especially now at winter it is really nice to have true control to motor usage. I have programmed my amp limits conservatively, battery amp limit is 13, and phase amps 30, so with 50v battery this comes down to 650w max electrical power which is plenty for ebike that is also pedaled. At these power levels motor sound comfortable - have tested 25A so around 1500w for fun, motor handled that no problem. My worries at the beginning were same as yours, but have faded away since. Speed is limited to 70%, so max speed with motor is around 27km/h, though have a "turbo switch" attached for 100% speed, that hasn't been used many times. I also like to get my exercise, just feels so stupid to sit on a bike and not pedal.

My suggestion for you is just build something so you really find what works for you and what doesn't. Q100 is a good motor for your intended use I think.

Btw, it is MXUS not XMUS

 

[motomech]

My first build used MXUS "antiwater" kit, rear geared hub with 9 speed casette and the sensorless controller that came with the kit. My kit was EU spec, so I had to connect and use PAS to get it working. Also had the throttle connected, which only worked when pedalling though. So first few hundred km it was good, until I started to have some problems with the controller. Didn't seem like sync issues, something other weird was going on.

Then bought a LYEN MK2 12fet sensorless, to gain total control with amp limits and stuff, and to get it working with throttle only if wanted to. Again got few hundred good km:s, until the casette broke off the side from the hub because of too hard pedalling That was the second geared rear hub I broke from the same place, other was Bafang or something. So, the motor was useless, got another one as a warranty replacement, this time I took the front version hoping that it would be more durable. It has some few hundred km:s under its belt, and so far so good. With 12S lipo hot off the charger, 26in rim, top speed with no pedalling is about 34km/h. My friend has a Q100, and it is a lot heavier than my MXUS. Front hub with 26in alu rim weighs in at ~3.5kg.

My thoughs on this kit is that the motor is good and light, but everything else is useless if you want anything more than a pedelec-bike.

Bike with rear hub, MXUS controller, no batteries in photo

Rear hub weight with 9spd casette

Current setup, front wheel hub, 12S1P 5ah lipo, LYEN MK2 sensorless controller

QUOTE"Again got few hundred good km:s, until the casette broke off the side from the hub because of too hard pedalling That was the second geared rear hub I broke from the same place, other was Bafang or something."

May I ask, was the "other" motor that broke fitted with a 9-speed freewheel too? It appears that MXUS must have re-designed to motor housing to accomodate the 40 m/m cluster as the MXUS motor sold to date will only accept a 7-speed.. Maybe casing is a little too thin.

Still, I would love to try that motor[that fits 9-speed] to match my MXUS frt.[2WD FOR DIRT RIDING], but the $300 for shipping is a deal killer. Where do you live?

 

[motomech]

Thanks Quaz
Great to hear from someone who has purchased an XMUS 'Antiwater kit'.
Sounds like front motor is going to be less trouble all around. Can I ask what is wrong with the PAS euro setup? I don't mind pedalling a bit and it surely reduces a lot of strain on the motor through the acceleration phase? The XMUS can be made in any RPM I want, so I'd probably go with a 250-260rpm setup.

Would the Q100 / 201 rpm/36v in a 700c wheel with 10amp controller get me up to 25kmh on the flat at least?

Well, at first I thought that euro-pas would be the way to go for me too (after testing a PAS bike for ~10km). But then when my own setup was ready and taken into use, I soon realized that the pas system isn't that sophisticated and many times with pas things got frustrating because the motor would turn always when pedaling. It just felt stupid at straights when pedaling over motor speeds that the motor would still turn, and when making small maneuvers with the bike the motor would turn, and continued to do so for few seconds after pedaling stopped. Even though motor would stop when a little brake was applied, it just annoyed me.

Now my setup only has throttle to control the motor, and especially now at winter it is really nice to have true control to motor usage. I have programmed my amp limits conservatively, battery amp limit is 13, and phase amps 30, so with 50v battery this comes down to 650w max electrical power which is plenty for ebike that is also pedaled. At these power levels motor sound comfortable - have tested 25A so around 1500w for fun, motor handled that no problem. My worries at the beginning were same as yours, but have faded away since. Speed is limited to 70%, so max speed with motor is around 27km/h, though have a "turbo switch" attached for 100% speed, that hasn't been used many times. I also like to get my exercise, just feels so stupid to sit on a bike and not pedal.

My suggestion for you is just build something so you really find what works for you and what doesn't. Q100 is a good motor for your intended use I think.

Btw, it is MXUS not XMUS

Yes, your performance figures are very close to mine.

The original MXUS kit's[called Mini-Might by some]controller maxes out at 17.5 amps and came with a 2-speed-limit switch. With a 48V LiCoMg batt.[hot off the charger-54.6V] and 11/44 gearing, it was right on the borderline of being able to assist at top speed[23-24 mph]. But of course, with these mini motors, every head wind or slight hill slows you down, so there isn't that much time that one can't add.
But I found the "econo" setting to be a bit slow[19-20 mph].
I'm doing a revision and switching to 12S Lipo and may lose 1 to 2 mph top speed, so it may work out well. If not, I can limit speed with the Cycle Analyst. Still, I am tempted to install a 48 tooth chain ring and try 13S or 14S.
I also have a Johnrobholmes 25A Mini-stealth controller[actual is, i believe is 22 amps]to try out. 1100 watts[50 X 22]is about the max for my riding conditions, still, I will be monitoring the hub temp.
I would like to see more of your build[Lipo set-up etc., which torque arm, etc.]. You could post in the "Photo" section on the "Creations, before and after". Just a thought.

BTW-50V X 25A is 1225 Watts, still on the high side for this motor.

 

[Kelp]

Well the whole direct purchasing saga with MXUS has hit a dead end. After being initially impressed by the very helpful Flora- sales consultant, when it came to purchasing via the AliExpress portal Mr Jin Pan,[ Flora's boss it turned out] wanted to hike the price from $450 to $700! No explanation offered. I even had a stamped official purchase order from Flora! Welcome to Chinese commerce I guess!. At least i didn't loose any money. Will probably go MAC or Bafung now. I recommend AVOIDING MXUS from Changzhou Hua Yu Xin Feng Motor Co. Will they ever learn [or care] that such unethical business practices will never be accepted in the west?

View attachment Flora PI-MXUS-12.03.15.pdf

 

[motomech]

You will need a bigger battery for a MAC.

 

[Kelp]

I am now happy to report that I purchased the kit directly from MXUS after all. They came back to me after a few days apologizing for the misunderstanding- I guess they just try it on. Anyway I decided to take the risk and go for it and the kit arrived in less than a week [China- Australia] after paying via paypal using their email address rather than through Ali Express. Everything is there that I asked for. Will update you when I have assembled and tested it.