The All-Singing, All-Dancing Sphere Health Thread

[megacycle]

I'll have to check that garlic out, interesting.
My wife's grandfather would eat a clove a day, what a man, like eating an onion, his wife would'nt kiss him though .

With the skin absorption i occasionaly crush an aspirin with water to a paste and rub it into painful sun damage on my arms.

I'm the opposite to sedentary, outdoors and overdoesit. Arthritis is my thing, both sides of the coin are just as bad, human life like rest of nature, resides on the bath tub curve, in the mid your laughing, on the outer on the slippery slope.

 

[Sancho's Horse]

Bamboo - I certainly would not discount the large majority of what was in that article on microwave oven impact upon nutritional content. I am a firm believer in Eastern and Western traditions of using food as primary medical intervention and prevention. Microwaves certainly do not help. They do in fact reduce nutritive quality of food. However, western diets typically suffer from not a shortage of nurtients but an overabundance, and usually an over- overabundance of specific parts of the diet. My mother-in-law cooks lots of interesting parts of animals I usually did not eat. Whether this helps or not is in my mind beyond dispute. Forget the expensive vitamins, glucosamine, yadda yadda yadda...eat the cartilage, connective tissues, and big varieties of animal parts (except brains and stomach for me). The RF of microwaves, I am dubious on. A cellphone though is collecting greater weight in the literature as a cause of tissue damage. Personal experience tells me that this is likely true. I have had long conversations where the battery discharge and RF lead to a slightly cooked feeling for my ear. The problem is not one MRI, the problem is humans form lots of patterns, and when we form a pattern with something damaging...tissues undergo chronic inflamatory processes which are very bad.

One other thing I forgot to point out is that a bit of sunlight is absolutely critical to good health. It should happen as close to everyday as you can achieve and be numerous exposures of relatively short duration for direct harsh sunlight.

Also, we generally have a lot of light pollution which we encounter these days disrupting nighttime darkness. This is very disruptive to melatonin production. As little as is being produced by the typical alarm clock is shown to be disruptive. Some people are more or less sensitive to this than others, but sometimes people get real weird about having a lot of light in their sleeping environment, and they may not know it, but they might be providing the indiscernable causation of lots of micro maladies and the beginnings of some macro-maladies. I lean a book up against the alarm clock and point it towards my feet.

Bowlofsalad - pH eh? This is an exceedingly complicated subject. There are doctors who cannot even give adequate explanation of pH system controls, and predictable outcomes for unusual interventions. I have a Masters in physiology and have been cited in a thesis paper for my "breadth of knowledge." My wife was a doctor in China. I would tread carefully on the pH interventions. People have the idea that a hydrogen source or a hydrogen sink and the salts they produce are all interchangeable with any other hydrogen source or hydrogen sink. In some ways they are, and in other ways te arenot. That is a bit like saying NaCl and KCl wll have the same effect on the body. One is table salt, and one will stop conductivity of your heart. Just try some alkaline foods, perhaps a lemon, cayenne pepper, horseradish, garlic salad?

 

[Teh Stork]

If you want info on fasting regimes:

Been doingLeangainssince 09. Gone from 100kg 50% BF to 70kg 10% BF (176cm).

As for first post:
Digestion: Don't eat processed shit.
Vegan lifestyle: Bullshit. " One that is perhaps less known is protein-induced hypercalciuria caused by excessive amounts of protein shedding calcium from the body." Oh please, dont spread this shit.
Allicin: Ain't going to make a difference, but onion gives food good flavour.
CR diet: In other words, dont be fat.

As for mental health:
Dont watch porn.
Develop yourself.
Export more than you import (Think TV and games).
Knowing your personality type, search for Myer briggs test, and working on inherent weaknesses is a nice start.

 

[megacycle]

The teeth you have are supposed to be indicative of the diet you need to eat.
Like the canines, there for a purpose.
The vegans and vegetarians i know, generally have an opposition to animal cruelty, as most caring people do, not a dislike to the taste or they are spiritually disinclined.

 

[Joseph C.]

Digestion: Don't eat processed shit.If only it was that simple.
Vegan lifestyle: Bullshit. " One that is perhaps less known is protein-induced hypercalciuria caused by excessive amounts of protein shedding calcium from the body." Oh please, dont spread this shit.So you are saying that the research proving its existence doesn't exist? What a stupid remark.
Allicin: Ain't going to make a difference, but onion gives food good flavour.So those trials that support its efficacy were worthless? Or are you confusing garlic with allicin? There is no allicin in onions, as far as I am aware anyway. And you won't get useful allicin benefits from eating garlic either you need the stabilised form.
CR diet: In other words, dont be fat. More over-simplification. Being thin is not the same as calorie fasting and doesn't offer as many benefits.

 

[Joseph C.]

The teeth you have are supposed to be indicative of the diet you need to eat.
Like the canines, there for a purpose.

I have heard that argument but I have a slightly different take on it.

Most people aren't aware that the hominid species spent a considerable amount of time using their teeth as tools. Tens of hours every week alone were devoted to making their hide-clothing supple. They may have done this for tens of thousands of years. Perhaps enough time to shape our teeth. As far as I'm aware, no other animals apart from the hominids used clothing. I think our teeth have been shaped by both our diet and our other tool-making activities.

I think the vegan diet is quite healthy. Perhaps the healthiest if you take the necessary supplements to combat the deficiencies.

 

[Joseph C.]

Mediterranean Diet Cuts Heart Disease Risk, Study Finds

About 30 percent of heart attacks, strokes and deaths from heart disease can be prevented in people at high risk if they switch to a Mediterranean diet rich in olive oil, nuts, beans, fish, fruits and vegetables, and even drink wine with meals, a large and rigorous new study has found.

The findings, published on The New England Journal of Medicine’s Web site on Monday, were based on the first major clinical trial to measure the diet’s effect on heart risks. The magnitude of the diet’s benefits startled experts. The study ended early, after almost five years, because the results were so clear it was considered unethical to continue.

The diet helped those following it even though they did not lose weight and most of them were already taking statins, or blood pressure or diabetes drugs to lower their heart disease risk.

“Really impressive,” said Rachel Johnson, a professor of nutrition at the University of Vermont and a spokeswoman for the American Heart Association. “And the really important thing — the coolest thing — is that they used very meaningful endpoints. They did not look at risk factors like cholesterol of hypertension or weight. They looked at heart attacks and strokes and death. At the end of the day, that is what really matters.”

Until now, evidence that the Mediterranean diet reduced the risk of heart disease was weak, based mostly on studies showing that people from Mediterranean countries seemed to have lower rates of heart disease — a pattern that could have been attributed to factors other than diet.

And some experts had been skeptical that the effect of diet could be detected, if it existed at all, because so many people are already taking powerful drugs to reduce heart disease risk, while other experts hesitated to recommend the diet to people who already had weight problems, since oils and nuts have a lot of calories.

Heart disease experts said the study was a triumph because it showed that a diet was powerful in reducing heart disease risk, and it did so using the most rigorous methods. Scientists randomly assigned 7,447 people in Spain who were overweight, were smokers, or had diabetes or other risk factors for heart disease to follow the Mediterranean diet or a low-fat one.

Low-fat diets have not been shown in any rigorous way to be helpful, and they are also very hard for patients to maintain — a reality borne out in the new study, said Dr. Steven E. Nissen, chairman of the department of cardiovascular medicine at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation.

“Now along comes this group and does a gigantic study in Spain that says you can eat a nicely balanced diet with fruits and vegetables and olive oil and lower heart disease by 30 percent,” he said. “And you can actually enjoy life.”

The study, by Dr. Ramon Estruch, a professor of medicine at the University of Barcelona, and his colleagues, was long in the planning. The investigators traveled the world, seeking advice on how best to answer the question of whether a diet alone could make a big difference in heart disease risk. They visited the Harvard School of Public Health several times to consult Dr. Frank M. Sacks, a professor of cardiovascular disease prevention there.

In the end, they decided to randomly assign subjects at high risk of heart disease to three groups. One would be given a low-fat diet and counseled on how to follow it. The other two groups would be counseled to follow a Mediterranean diet. At first the Mediterranean dieters got more intense support. They met regularly with dietitians while the low-fat group just got an initial visit to train them in how to adhere to the diet followed by a leaflet each year on the diet. Then the researchers decided to add more intensive counseling for them, too, but they still had difficulty staying with the diet.

One group assigned to a Mediterranean diet was given extra virgin olive oil each week and was instructed to use at least four tablespoons a day. The other group got a combination of walnuts, almonds and hazelnuts and was instructed to eat about an ounce of the mix each day. An ounce of walnuts, for example, is about a quarter cup — a generous handful. The mainstays of the diet consisted of at least three servings a day of fruits and at least two servings of vegetables. Participants were to eat fish at least three times a week and legumes, which include beans, peas and lentils, at least three times a week. They were to eat white meat instead of red, and, for those accustomed to drinking, to have at least seven glasses of wine a week with meals.

They were encouraged to avoid commercially made cookies, cakes and pastries and to limit their consumption of dairy products and processed meats.

To assess compliance with the Mediterranean diet, researchers measured levels of a marker in urine of olive oil consumption — hydroxytyrosol — and a blood marker of nut consumption — alpha-linolenic acid.

The participants stayed with the Mediterranean diet, the investigators reported. But those assigned to a low-fat diet did not lower their fat intake very much. So the study wound up comparing the usual modern diet, with its regular consumption of red meat, sodas and commercial baked goods, to a diet that shunned all that.

Dr. Estruch said he thought the effect of the Mediterranean diet was because of the entire package, not just the olive oil or nuts. He did not expect, though, to see such a big effect so soon. “This is actually really surprising to us,” he said.

The researchers were careful to say in their paper that while the diet clearly reduced heart disease for those at high risk for it, more research was needed to establish its benefits for people at low risk. But Dr. Estruch said he expected it would also help people at both high and low risk, and suggested that the best way to use it for protection would be to start in childhood.

Not everyone is convinced, though. Dr. Caldwell Blakeman Esselstyn Jr., the author of the best seller “Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease: The Revolutionary, Scientifically Proven, Nutrition-Based Cure,” who promotes a vegan diet and does not allow olive oil, dismissed the new study.

His views and those of another promoter of a very-low-fat diet, Dr. Dean Ornish, have influenced many to try to become vegan. Former President Bill Clinton, interviewed on CNN, said Dr. Esselstyn’s and Dr. Ornish’s writings helped convince him that he could reverse his heart disease in that way.

Dr. Esselstyn said those in the Mediterranean diet study still had heart attacks and strokes. So, he said, all the study showed was that “the Mediterranean diet and the horrible control diet were able to create disease in people who otherwise did not have it.”

Others hailed the study.

“This group is to be congratulated for carrying out a study that is nearly impossible to do well,” said Dr. Robert H. Eckel, a professor of medicine at the University of Colorado and a past president of the American Heart Association.

As for the researchers, they have changed their own diets and are following a Mediterranean one, Dr. Estruch said.

“We have all learned,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/health/mediterranean-diet-can-cut-heart-disease-study-finds.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0&hp

 

[megacycle]

I have heard that argument but I have a slightly different take on it.

Most people aren't aware that the hominid species spent a considerable amount of time using their teeth as tools. Tens of hours every week alone were devoted to making their hide-clothing supple. They may have done this for tens of thousands of years. Perhaps enough time to shape our teeth. As far as I'm aware, no other animals apart from the hominids used clothing. I think our teeth have been shaped by both our diet and our other tool-making activities.

I think the vegan diet is quite healthy. Perhaps the healthiest if you take the necessary supplements to combat the deficiencies.

I think primarily teeth are very indicative of diet lineage and secondary adapted for use as tools.
Otherwise we'd have like molars at the front, instead of the weaker incisors.
Of course theyre tools for biting, tearing and gripping things and even other people & .
Just as other animals use them, fun trying to take a shoe from a playful dog.

Ive never heard of a natural native full time vegetarian, so i am personally opposed to not eating meat, i wish i farmed my own so i knew were it came from, but don't have the luxury, suppose another good reason for vegi life.
A lot of groups have a spiritual aspect to deal with killing and eating meat understandable to me when killing other mammals, etc.
My wife has a friend who's dog is on a vegetarian diet, i am now got to resist the urge to bash this keyboard out of utter frustration of not going around her place and throttling her.

 

[Joseph C.]

Processed meat linked to early death

New research involving half a million people highlights links between processed meat and heart disease and cancer. Photograph: Getty Images

Diets laden with pies, sausages, and ready meals can lead to an early death, a major study has shown.

Research involving half a million people highlights links between processed meat and heart disease and cancer.

It also shows that people who eat a lot of the meat products have a significantly greater chance of dying prematurely than those consuming low amounts.

Over a typical follow-up time of 12.7 years, the risk of dying from any cause was 44 per cent greater for high processed meat consumers.

Rates of premature death rose with the quantity of processed meat eaten.

High processed meat consumption led to a 72 per cent increased risk of dying from heart disease, and an 11 per cent increased risk of dying from cancer.

Study leader Professor Sabine Rohrmann, from the University of Zurich in Switzerland, said: “Risks of dying earlier from cancer and cardiovascular disease also increased with the amount of processed meat eaten.

“Overall, we estimate that 3 per cent of premature deaths each year could be prevented if people ate less than 20 grams of processed meat per day.”

The findings, reported in the journal BMC Medicine, come in the wake of the horse meat scandal which has caused people to question the origins of their food.

Epic (European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition) study recruited men and women aged 35 to 70 with widely ranging diets from 10 European countries.

Participants filled in questionnaires about the food they had consumed over the previous 12 months.

Meats were grouped into red, white and processed. Processed meat included ham, bacon, sausages and ready meal fillings.

Red meat included pork, horse and goat as well as beef and lamb, while white meat incorporated chicken, turkey, duck and rabbit.

Over the follow-up period a total of 5,556 participants died from heart and artery disease, 9,861 from cancer, and 1,068 from respiratory diseases.

High consumption of processed meat was defined as 160 or more grams per day.

In general, diets high in processed meat were linked to unhealthy lifestyles.

Men and women who ate the most processed meat ate the fewest fruits and vegetables, and were more likely to smoke.

Men, but not women, who ate a lot of meat also tended to have high level of alcohol consumption.

The researchers adjusted the data to take account of these and other factors that might have influenced the results.

Eating both red meat and poultry were not associated with significant increases in mortality risk, and small quantities of red meat appeared to be beneficial.

The authors pointed out that red meat contains essential nutrients and minerals that might be missing from a vegetarian diet.

Red meat also contains potentially harmful saturated fat and cholesterol.

However, these were present at much higher levels in processed meat products, as well as preservatives and colourants linked to cancer, said the scientists.

The researchers concluded: “The results of our analyses suggest that men and women with a high consumption of processed meat are at increased risk of early death, particularly due to cardiovascular diseases but also cancer.

“As processed meat consumption is a modifiable risk factor, health promotion activities should include specific advice on lowering processed meat consumption.”

Dietician Tracy Parker of the British Heart Foundation (BHF), said: “With spring in the air, many of us may be looking forward to sunny barbecues. But this research suggests processed meat, such as sausages and burgers, may be linked to an increased risk of early death.

“However, the people who ate the most processed meat in this study also made other unhealthy lifestyle choices. They were found to eat less fruit and vegetables and were more likely to smoke, which may have had an impact on results.

“Red meat can still be enjoyed as part of a balanced diet. Opting for leaner cuts and using healthier cooking methods such as grilling will help to keep your heart healthy. If you eat lots of processed meat, try to vary your diet with other protein choices such as chicken, fish, beans or lentils.”

PA

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0307/breaking44.html

 

[Joseph C.]

My wife has a friend who's dog is on a vegetarian diet, i am now got to resist the urge to bash this keyboard out of utter frustration of not going around her place and throttling her.

Can't help you there, I'm afraid.

 

[megacycle]

you can see how common sense goes out of the door when your diet is missing essential ingredients.
either that or i must be getting too much meat

 

[Joseph C.]

Interesting discussion on the effects of carbohydrates on the diet.

[youtube]5IYVIdztWWs[/youtube]

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2013/02/the-low-carb-high-fat-diet-debate-and.html

 

[h0tr0d]

For me and all I know, the perfect diet for optimum health is Paleo or Primal.

Everyone now has better energy, lower BF (specially lower visceral fat), better blood tests results, blood pressure, etc.

Basics:
Saturated fat, loads! Coconut, lard, avocado and butter for some examples. This is the foundation of better lab results, less hunger and fat loss.
Vegetables, loads! Legumes and starches NOT included. (I eat around a pound, 500g each day)
Meat, fish and eggs. Grass fed, wild and free range. Meat and fish, the fattier, the better!
Cereals NEVER again. Refined, "whole", organic, it's all shit. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/#axzz2XBG03HJB
Vegetable oils or margerines NEVER again! Too much omega6 and/or trans fats... http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fats/#axzz2XBG03HJB

Exercise? like a caveman! Once or twice a week, move heavy stuff and really high intensity cardio (the kind you can't breath and/or move after 3~4 min). Rest of time, enjoy life slowly and calmly... "Body by Science" for example.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/#axzz2XBG03HJB

BBC horizon documentaries (food for thought):
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer-hd_shortfilms#.UcjjzvnVCSo
http://vimeo.com/51836895


Disclamer: I'm in no way associated with Mark Scisson and I don't agree/follow 100% of what he writes. Why? Because I have a brain, curiosity to read and experiment on myself and looked at my family health history and what they ate.

 

[swbluto]

Noticing how the greatest number of deaths happen due to cardiovascular diseases (such as heart attacks, strokes, etc.) and I seem to be having some heart issues myself, I researched into the causes and found...

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/02/the-china-study-wheat-and-heart-disease-oh-my/

The Chinese study is the only major international study into foods and causes of death/disease to this date, and it found that wheat and vegetable oils were positively correlated with heart disease. It's thought that since wheat was only recently introduced to human society, there is a significant percentage of the population that have a relatively high degree of gluten sensitivity. It produces an allergic reaction in the body which causes inflammation, and it's thought that it is a blood vessel inflammatory responsible for artherschelorosis (Fatty calcium deposits in the blood vessels, otherwise known as hardening the blood vessels). This is one of the reasons why heart disease was otherwise unknown in japanese people, but when they immigrated to America and adopted the diet, the heart attack rates started to reflect America's. (Note, that's no longer true today in Japan since their diet has been partially westernized.)

Modern studies also suggest that cholesterol and saturated fats consumption is associated with heart disease. That basically translates into animal meats (except marine species) and animal byproducts like milk, cheese, etc.;

Taking the two bits of info above, avoiding wheat products and becoming a fish-eating vegan minimizes the risk of heart disease.

In other studies, it's found that sugary and starchy diets increases the peak insulin response, which increases the risk of diabetes. So avoiding processed foods is a good idea.

Also, the *lack* of fiber in food products derived from fibrous foods is bad for you. I suspect that fiber's purpose is to slow down the absorption of sugar and nutrients into the bloodstream thus limiting the insulin response, but that is simply my conjecture. For example, eating apples is healthier than drinking apple juice.

So, in essence, eat foods that are closest to nature as possible (Not crushed, filtered,stripped,.etc), prefer fibrous as opposed to the starchy, and avoid modern foods and especially processed foods. Also, avoid meat, eggs and dairy products.

Calorie restriction is also good one. A study found that people who were twice as heavy were nearly twice as likely to get cancer; not hard to understand why, more mass means more cells meaning more DNA molecules, meaning more chances of getting just the right combinations of genetic errors (i.e., oncogenes are knocked out) that would lead to cancer. It also found that higher weight was associated with an increased likelihood of diabetes, heart disease and quite a few other disease processes.

Exercise is also important, but it's not simply a matter of getting your one hour of exercise and you're good, it's more of the matter of staying active throughout the day. Habitual sitting was found to increase the likelihood of all causes of death.

There was a movie I was watching called "National Geographic: Stress - Portrait of a Killer". Basically, it said that high social status animals tend to have less stress and have better cardiovascular health. The low status monkeys were found to have semi-clogged arteries while the top-monkeys didn't. The low status guys also had more belly fat as stress affects fat distribution.

Movie: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001D7T460

Also, a lack of sleep was found to impair the DNA repair mechanisms in the body, heightening the chance of cancer. In particular, not getting more than 6 hours of sleep a day increased the chance of prostate cancer in men by over 50%.

Also, not flossing your teeth is associated with shorter lifespans(By a couple of years) and a heightened risk of cardiovascular diseases. The inflammation of the gum line is thought to be involved some how.

So, keeping it all simple:

Become a vegan, eat fish, avoid wheat, vegatable oils and processed foods(They typically have plenty of both) and prefer foods that are natural as possible, keep your weight down, get good sleep and exercise, floss your teeth and never sit down for more than 3 hours a day. Also, climb to the top of the social ladder and stay there, if you can.

Above all, don't worry about it. Anxiety also increases stress which negates some of the benefits. Also, exercise is an EXCELLENT mood regulator. Once you start exercising, you'll get used to the better mood and you won't notice any effects after a while, but once you stop exercising for a week and then try it again, holy crap, is there a noticeable difference!!

My diet is rice and beans along with fruits and fish. Spices are good, too. Don't know if I can "climb the ladder" or if faking it helps, so I try not to think about it, lol.

 

[h0tr0d]

China study: over 80% of observational studies are proven wrong over time. Guess what the China study is and your "modern studies about saturated fat" are...?

Simple question: if animal saturated fat and red meat are bad for us, why are they the number 1 deposits in our bodies for essential aminoacids and energy in case of fasting/famine?

Since you like Denise's work, see this:
http://vimeo.com/m/32062337

Rice, beans, fruit and fish is not best combo I would say (and Denise would agree). Too many carbs and anti-nutrients, too little phytochemical and minerals... Depending on the fruits, you might also be abusing on fructose, good for making foie gras.

I'm all for natural products, fresh, etc like you, but not everything natural is good. Crude oil is 100% natural and older then us.

I'm more "vegetarian" then you and I eat meat! Vegetarians eat vegetables dude :wink:

 

[swbluto]

I'm not saying that meats don't serve some important purpose, historically, but I'm just saying that they do increase certain mortality risks in the later years. Evolution doesn't care what happens to an individual who lives past the historically normal age for people, 30-40s.

Fish provides the "amino acids" and "minerals" you speak of, along with omega-3.

Also, the china study was pretty systematic. Categorizing it as such diminishes its scope, thoroughness and insight into different diets that few modern studies have.

Agree with you about the "fruits" stuff and "too much carbs" (You're supposed to eat plenty of veggies, but like I like eating those, lol.). Still, it's a helluva lot less glucose overloading than the average American diet, in small portions.

I know, I don't practice what I preach. I'm a sinner. For example, I sit like 12 hours a day, I'm pretty sure I'm going to die before all y'all. (Hoping to change that... just haven't figured out how...)

 

[swbluto]

By the way, when people talk about "carbs", they're typically implicating wheat-based foods. And that's the case with typical western diets.

But, it's just the wheat. Yes, baby, it's just the wheat.

I cut the wheat out completely and within 2 months, I lost 25 pounds. Every-time I go eat at least 3 servings of wheat over 2 or more days, I swear my weight goes up 6 pounds. It's thought that wheat is like sugar in that it stimulates appetite, but there might be other reasons why wheat causes such great weight increases.

Then again, I don't really eat other starchy foods, so other starches may have similar affects. Like rice. Don't eat a lot of it (Rarely, it's a pain to cook).

 

[Chalo]

But, it's just the wheat. Yes, baby, it's just the wheat.

Hogwash. Civilization got started on wheat and barley. People's lifespans didn't climb out of the thirties until wheat was a staple. We've been eating the stuff twenty times longer than tomatoes, potatoes, sweet potatoes, corn, most beans, avocados, and a host of other so-called "paleo" foods. We are adapted to it. People of European and Middle Eastern extraction who couldn't prosper on wheat, didn't even make it into history.

In my short life, I have seen food phobics vilify fat, protein, and carbohydrates-- that's all the macronutrients. I've seen them kick down coconut and palm oils, then help them back up. Polyunsaturated fats were good, then monounsaturated, then saturated. Eggs were poison, then they were rich in "good cholesterol". Margarine was the healthy choice, then butter was better. Sugar was a vital source of energy, then it was bad, but then only processed sugar was bad, then all carbohydrates were bad, and then it was just high fructose corn syrup you had to worry about. Meat was good, then bad, then good again. Milk was part of a complete breakfast, and then it was somehow unfit for adults to consume, and then yogurt made out of milk made you immortal or something, and then only organic milk was OK.

Anyway, I have run through this drill so many times I can see it happening before it happens. Wheat phobia is the food phobia of the hour, and its hour is almost up.

It was a crap choice of phobia, I gotta say-- something that sustained our ancestors for millennia and allowed them to rise out of their own excrement. "Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts...." They weren't talking about rice and millet flour stuck together with xanthan gum.

 

[swbluto]

'Ello there, Chalo! I'm sure you've heard that most heart diseases manifest after the late 40s, well past the average lifespan of ancient people, and it doesn't strike everyone, right? Yeah, that's right, an entire society can survive on a nutrition source but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the ideal nutrient to achieve centenarian status for everyone. I'm quite sure ancient societies could've survived quite well on sugars, but of course, most of them would've seen diabetes by their 50s. Oh, sheaatttt, that sounds like America! Weird!!

 

[h0tr0d]

Swbluto,

About the China Study (Minger again) http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
"In sum, “The China Study” is a compelling collection of carefully chosen data. Unfortunately for both health seekers and the scientific community, Campbell appears to exclude relevant information when it indicts plant foods as causative of disease, or when it shows potential benefits for animal products. This presents readers with a strongly misleading interpretation of the original China Study data, as well as a slanted perspective of nutritional research from other arenas (including some that Campbell himself conducted)."

You say "an individual who lives past the historically normal age for people, 30-40s" Sorry, wrong. Many people lived past that, but the "mean" was indeed around 30. Many died in their infancy, wars, hunting, or simple colds.
Statistics are like bikini, they show a LOT but hide the essential!!

I'm not saying that only fish is an unhealthy alternative to eating meat, all I'm saying is that there is no hard fact proof that any meat is bad for humans, in any stage of life. Unhealthy is vegetarianism without supplements!

How about nuked sweet potatos and yams? easy!
http://nomnompaleo.com/post/6714604464/microwaved-yams-sweet-potatoes

Chalo,

Grains are great only when you are dying of hunger. Only that.
Genetically speaking, we humans did not have enough time to adapt to grains. Most of us "tolerate" them for many decades making almost impossible to "see" their side effects like cancers, CVD's or metabolic diseases...
Regarding food phobias, 300% agreed!
BUT, like I said, "over 80% of observational studies are proven wrong over time". Please understand that the vast majority of recommendations do not come from hard data, fact-cause, but by observing a system with an complexity that NO human has mental power to fully understand, with the mentality "cholesterol in the mouth= cholesterol in blood = clogged arteries". That's why we have so much misinformation. Not to mention lobbies...

But looking around to all the sick people made me pursue a different diet and life style.
Is Paleo/ Primal the perfect diet? Probably not. But you can be damn sure it's a lot closer to perfection then SAD.

 

[Kingfish]

I’m over 50 and had a physical about 6 weeks ago. Everything is more or less fine; BP a little high for my normally low – but that just points out the need for a bit more fresh air. I had this tire around my waist where I could easily grab 2 inches and decided to be more aggressive about reducing that.

Following a general trend in my diet about 10 years ago when I cut out most of the red meat, after the physical I also cut all of the obvious grain-based starch. Exceptions are my special crepes which I enjoy 2 or 3 times a week: 3 eggs with 2% milk + ½ cup whole wheat flour, no butter, topped with a dab of real maple syrup. But generally no pasta, breads, or rice. In the evening I’d have popcorn to fill me up; it's not the best option - I might switch to puffed rice cakes... anything to take up space. The rest of the time it’s oranges, apples, celery interspersed with spoons of peanut butter and aged cheddar; a reduced caloric diet. Occasionally I’d have a 3-egg omelet with broccoli, onion & garlic. As others have pointed out, keeping it to really basic foodstuffs mainly from the outer isles of the supermarket. Occasional cravings are hard to ignore: Sometimes I’d do the veggy medley in the cask iron skillet with a little olive oil. If I went out for dinner, I stick to garden salad + chicken. All good stuff.

Once or twice a week I’d have gude bier with my pals; off diet but I have my vices. Don’t own a scale (ordered though) and can't tell if I've lost weight, however 3 or 4 times a day I try to do sets of crunches and leg-lifts to build the muscles of the abdomen. I got the idea after one of my rides in spring and noticed my abs were aching, so began slowly to help that out with leg-lifts. It’s tough cos I had double-hernia surgery about 10 years ago and that muscle group has never quite recovered. With a slow steady pace I’m now up to two sets of 15 reps several times a day and I can feel the difference.

As I said, 6 weeks ago I could grab 2 full inches around the belt-line. Today, standing up – I can pinch ½ inch but can't hang on. The sides… well, there’s still an inch to go. Things are looking up. Might take me another 6 months to get ribbed. :wink:

My vices: Beer and ice cream, not together. Hard to go a week without having the plunge. Though definitely the high-fiber diet is working and I’ve turned the corner. Almost forgot the buzz of fresh-ground coffee daily to instigate regularity.

I am not a person to be bound to overt dosing of vitamins. High-fiber is my route. My thinking is that if you can keep the natural nutrients moving through the system then the toxins are regularly removed. When not riding, I’m walking. Sometimes I work from home, and it’s raining (naturally) so I have to make more of an effort to get out and get the blood flowing. KISS. As long as I don’t overindulge too often I expect to remain a pest to my enemies for a long time to come.

Fomenting movements, KF

 

[h0tr0d]

Beer, vanilla ice cream and chopped pineapple in a blender, hummmm... Awesome!

 

[swbluto]

Swbluto,

About the China Study (Minger again) http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
"In sum, “The China Study” is a compelling collection of carefully chosen data. Unfortunately for both health seekers and the scientific community, Campbell appears to exclude relevant information when it indicts plant foods as causative of disease, or when it shows potential benefits for animal products. This presents readers with a strongly misleading interpretation of the original China Study data, as well as a slanted perspective of nutritional research from other arenas (including some that Campbell himself conducted)."

It seemed like Campbell had an agenda with his research, but I didn't get the impression he sought to vilify wheat. It almost seems like an "accidental discovery" that he dismissed as curious when researching the data and trying to prove the ills of sugar and whatever else. I'm not even sure if they knew about gluten back then, lol. Also, if you read her blog, you'll see that there are animal models other than his research that shows the same thing. Rabbits fed wheat germ have far more atherosclerosis, and that's known to have an autoimmune origin, so it's fair to assume that wheat triggers an autoimmune response which damages the blood vessels. Especially given the known prevalence of Gluten sensitivity and Coealic's disease.

(Btw, I have gluten sensitivity and my entire family does. It's pretty mild in my case (wheat causes me stomach cramps when pooing, and an overabundance of runnier tan-colored stools. It also makes me fat, but that might not be because of the gluten, lol...), but it's pretty hellacious in my brothers case. He gets boils and pure diarrhea.)

You say "an individual who lives past the historically normal age for people, 30-40s" Sorry, wrong. Many people lived past that, but the "mean" was indeed around 30. Many died in their infancy, wars, hunting, or simple colds.
Statistics are like bikini, they show a LOT but hide the essential!!

That's the point, we're talking about most of society, not the exceptions. Chalo's argument being that society subsisted on wheat for 1000s of years meaning it has no longterm ill-affects whatsoever is logically fallacious. It *might* be true, but that's a poor logical argument. If most people die before 40 years old, then wheat which tends to inflame the blood vessels won't stop it from being a useful energy-dense food source for societies. Also, it doesn't really matter if people die old or young or what tends to cause deaths at what age group(s), all that matters is that a sufficient % of the population reproduces enough before they die for societies to flourish (And, of course, enough food to go around.).

The most common cause of death for older people back then was infection and disease. They didn't have antibiotics or other fancy medicines.

BUT, like I said, "over 80% of observational studies are proven wrong over time". Please understand that the vast majority of recommendations do not come from hard data, fact-cause, but by observing a system with an complexity that NO human has mental power to fully understand, with the mentality "cholesterol in the mouth= cholesterol in blood = clogged arteries".

Agreed, especially with humans' tendencies to make naive assumptions about how our bodies work. It's far too complex to jump to simple conclusions, like you said.

But studies show people who don't eat meat have a far lower chance of dying due to heart attack by 60. It might be because they tend to eat their vegetables or don't eat nearly as much, who knows, but not eating meat might just be the ticket.

Hmmm, this study suggests it's the lecithin..." a fat found in egg yolks, red meats, liver, soy, wheat, peanuts and milk."... that's associated with it. That might explain the meat<->heart-disease connection. The current research suggests that the gut's bacteria is involved in producing some kind of chemical when processing certain foods that inflames the cardiovascular system. Not flossing your teeth, which leads to inflamed gums, also heightens the cardiovascular risk - interesting that both involve bacteria, inflammation, and the digestive tract...might be the same process at work...

http://www.medicaldaily.com/article...heart-disease-risk-lecithin-tmao-bacteria.htm

But, of course, we're still far away from understanding the body in its totality.

 

[swbluto]

BUT, like I said, "over 80% of observational studies are proven wrong over time". Please understand that the vast majority of recommendations do not come from hard data, fact-cause, but by observing a system with an complexity that NO human has mental power to fully understand, with the mentality "cholesterol in the mouth= cholesterol in blood = clogged arteries".

Talking about naievete, it seems the health industry is fearful about belly fat. It's almost like they assume belly fat *causes* all these ills and eating the right foods will cure it. But, that stress video I watched suggested that low social status, which itself is associated with persistent stress, increases belly fat as it affects the fat distribution. So, it might be the case that "belly fat" is a signal of some other processes going on, that we don't fully understand, that affect health outcomes rather than a cause. That's my suspicion, anyways.

I'm willing to bet "social status", with how it affects genetic expression, mood, stress levels, mortality risks, etc, is used by evolution in natural selection, in that it increases evolutionary adaptivity and the potential rate of evolution, as compared to species which lack social structure. That is, the higher status an animal is, the longer it's going to live, statistically, and the more mating opportunities over its lifetime to spread its genes, so the higher status animals with 'better genes' will tend to out-compete lower status animals with 'worse genes' in the gene pool over time more quickly as compared to species that lack "social status".

 

[Joseph C.]

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37367/title/Obesity-via-Microbe-Transplants/

Another piece of the puzzle?

Obesity via Microbe Transplants
Germ-free mice gain weight when transplanted with gut microbes from obese humans, in a diet-dependent manner.

Physical traits like obesity and leanness can be “transmitted” to mice, by inoculating the rodents with human gut microbes. A team of scientists led by Jeffrey Gordon from the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis found that germ-free mice put on weight when they were transplanted with gut microbes from an obese person, but not those from a lean person.

The team also showed that a “lean” microbial community could infiltrate and displace an “obese” one, preventing mice from gaining weight so long as they were on a healthy diet. The results were published today (September 5) in Science.

Gordon emphasized that there are many causes of obesity beyond microbes. Still, he said that studies like these “provide a proof-of-principle for ameliorating diseases.” By understanding how microbes and food interact to influence human health, researchers may be able to design effective probiotics that can prevent obesity by manipulating the microbiome.

The human gut is home to tens of trillions of microbes, which play crucial roles in breaking down food and influencing health. Gordon’s group and others have now shown that obese and lean people differ in their microbial communities. Just last week, the MetaHIT consortium showed that a quarter of Danish people studied had a very low number of bacterial genes in their gut—an impoverished state that correlated with higher risks of both obesity and metabolic diseases.

However, descriptive studies like these cannot tell scientists whether such microbial differences are the cause of obesity or a consequence of it. “A lot of correlations are being made between microbe community configurations and disease states, but we don’t know if these are casual or causal,” said Gordon. By using germ-free mice as living laboratories, Gordon and his colleagues aim to start moving “beyond careful description to direct tests of function,” he added.

“It’s extremely exciting and powerful to go from descriptive studies in humans to mechanistic studies in mice,” said Oluf Pedersen, an endocrinologist who was involved in the MetaHIT studies. “That’s beautifully illustrated in this paper.”

Gordon lab graduate student Vanessa Ridaura inoculated the germ-free mice with gut microbes from four pairs of female twins, each in which one person was obese and the other had a healthy weight. Mice that received the obese humans’ microbes gained more body fat, put on more weight, and showed stronger molecular signs of metabolic problems.

Once the transplanted microbes had taken hold in their guts, but before their bodies had started to change, Ridaura housed the two groups of mice together. Mice regularly eat one another’s feces, so these cage-mates inadvertently introduced their neighbors’ microbes to their own gut communities. Gordon called this the “Battle of the Microbiota.”

These co-housing experiments prevented the mice with “obese” microbes from putting on weight or developing metabolic problems, while those with the “lean” microbes remained at a healthy weight.

Gordon explains that the obese microbe communities, being less diverse than the lean ones, leave many “job openings” within the gut—niches that can be filled by the diverse lean microbes when they invade. “And obviously, those job openings aren’t there in the richer, lean gut community,” he said. “That’s why the invasion is one-directional.”

“But if invasion is so robust, why then isn’t there an epidemic of leanness?” asked Gordon. “The answer appears to be, in part, diet.”

In her initial experiments, Ridaura fed the mice standard chow, which is high in fiber and plant matter. She also blended up two new recipes, designed to reflect extremes of saturated fat versus fruit and vegetable consumption associated with Western diets.

If the mice were fed food low in fat and high in fruit and vegetables, Ridaura found the same results as before—the lean microbes could cancel out the effect of the obese ones. But when the mice were fed food low in fruit and vegetables and high in saturated fat, those with obese gut microbes still gained weight, no matter who their neighbors were.

This may be because the best colonizers among the lean communities were the Bacteroidetes—a group of bacteria that are excellent at breaking down the complex carbohydrates found in plant foods. When the mice ate plant-rich diets, the Bacteroidetes could fulfill a metabolic role that was vacant in the obese gut communities. When the mice ate unhealthy, plant-poor diets, “these vacancies weren’t there and the organisms couldn’t establish themselves,” said Gordon.

“We’re now trying to identify particular sets of organisms that can do what the complete community does,” Gordon added. The ultimate goal is to create a set of specific bacteria that could be safely administered as a probiotic that, along with a defined diet, could help these beneficial microbes to establish themselves and might effectively prevent weight gain.

“This study is an inspiration for us at MetaHIT,” said Pedersen. “It would be very interesting to take stools or cultures from extreme cases within our samples—people who have very rich or very poor gut microbiomes—and inoculate them into germ-free mice. . . . Now that we have a proof-of-concept, it’s obvious for us to follow up our findings through these studies.”