The "Civil disobedience" 10 step backwards 1 forward...

[Goethe]

Hi!

I´ve been lurking around at ES for a while and admiring peoples EV constructions. I´m an automotive engineer from Sweden and the last 10 years been working with combustion engine development at Volvo cars and SAAB. The last year I´ve been working in big scale EV projects and hoping to continuos doing so!

My first EV is build on a MTB steel frame, 24" wheels and motor only propulsion. The first ride was a couple of days ago and I´m very pleased with the performance...pulling wheelies at any speed is something I could learn to live with...

Spec
Electric:
HXT 80 100
CC HV110 (Now blown, need new ESC urgent)
Throttelizer and Amp control
Eagle data logger
Turnigy lipo 44 V 15 Ah
BMS and Charge control (Not assembled yet)
Meanwell charger
Transmission:
Two stage 13:1 (50 km/h)
Belt GT3 5M 15 pitch (No slipping so far)
Heavy duty BMX chain
43t BMX front sprocket mounted at wheel

Next is to mount foot rests and brakes and start to abuse the bike. When every thing seems solid I will start to work with the design.

/Goethe

 

[AussieJester]

CC HV110 (Now blown, need new ESC urgent)

Damn with a top speed of 50 clicks that thing must have some serious wheelie and
hill climbing powerz :-|

Perhaps the CC HV160 would be more upto the job? Only other real alternative is
fitting hall sensors and using ebike style speed controller.

Got any vids of the bike in action?.

KiM

 

[recumpence]

I would recommend two things;

#1 HV160 controller (or fit halls).

#2 Run a lerger rear sprocket geared for 40mph or so.

Those two things should add reliability and make the bike more sane to ride.

Matt

 

[liveforphysics]

#2 Run a lerger rear sprocket geared for 40mph or so.

Matt

Whoa Magic sprocket?

 

[recumpence]

#2 Run a lerger rear sprocket geared for 40mph or so.

Matt

Whoa Magic sprocket?

It just seems like gearing for anything more than 40mph is pretty hard on components in a single motor setup (when using RC controllers).

Matt

 

[Goethe]

CC HV110 (Now blown, need new ESC urgent)

Damn with a top speed of 50 clicks that thing must have some serious wheelie and
hill climbing powerz :-|

Perhaps the CC HV160 would be more upto the job? Only other real alternative is
fitting hall sensors and using ebike style speed controller.

Got any vids of the bike in action?.

KiM

Yes it wheelies like crazy...but I like it...aurhmm...

My work mate was going to film a take off but only got smoke & fire on tape. I was just opening the throttle a couple % and the ESC popped.

/Goethe

 

[Goethe]

I would recommend two things;

#1 HV160 controller (or fit halls).

#2 Run a lerger rear sprocket geared for 40mph or so.

Those two things should add reliability and make the bike more sane to ride.

Matt

Hall´s will be a winter project and building an ESC around a PIC uC.

-Any failures yet with the HV160?
-What´s the difference of HV140 & ICE HV160?
-Matt, I read something that you have a deal on these?

I will go up from 8t to 9t on first sprocket on the second drive. That will give about 5 km/h and be nicer to the chain.

The bike is a City trasher so top speed around 55 is plenty. But it´s a must to smoke all kids on EU-scooters!

/Goethe

 

[recumpence]

The 140 and 160 are completely different architectures. Yes, the 160 is a very rugged. There are concerns, though.

Here is the deal;

You need to get the bike rolling before you hit tht throttle. Also, if you get on the throttle at too low an RPM, the controller will blow. That goes for any RC based controller. The phaze currents are too high at low throttle settings and low RPM to take a hard amperage hit.

Again, I would highly recommend gearing down to 40 or 45mph top speed. Taking the gearing down that bit will drastically increase longevity of the controller. Typically 8,000 watts is required to sustain 60mph on an upright bike. Accelleration with that gearing requires even more.

I like the bike. It is very elegent and minimalistic. That is very cool! I just want to see your controllers survive.

Matt

 

[Goethe]

The 140 and 160 are completely different architectures. Yes, the 160 is a very rugged. There are concerns, though.

Here is the deal;

You need to get the bike rolling before you hit tht throttle. Also, if you get on the throttle at too low an RPM, the controller will blow. That goes for any RC based controller. The phaze currents are too high at low throttle settings and low RPM to take a hard amperage hit.

Again, I would highly recommend gearing down to 40 or 45mph top speed. Taking the gearing down that bit will drastically increase longevity of the controller. Typically 8,000 watts is required to sustain 60mph on an upright bike. Accelleration with that gearing requires even more.

I like the bike. It is very elegent and minimalistic. That is very cool! I just want to see your controllers survive.

Matt

Thanks for the critics. The design I have in my mind will look quite different from now. But thats a later issue first get the stuff to run well.
I'm a big fan of your creations! I stumbled over your recumbent when googling a couple of years ago. After that I was sold on ebikes

Ok I will go with the HV160.

It´s geared to 34 mph (55 km/h), do mean that the controller likes 45 mph better?

This slow spool up that we have is not a problem on planes so when the start up sequence is done the controller allows very high duty cycle.
I also think there could be an issue with start up logic when fiddling with the throttle standing still.

/Goethe

 

[recumpence]

Ahh, OK, your gearing is fine. I thought it was geared for 50mph, not kph.

Anyway, I really like the build. It looks like a very elegent solution.

I am looking forward to a video.

Matt

 

[Byte]

Nice bike! I really like it! So simple but cool I want to see a vid of it too

Hall´s will be a winter project and building an ESC around a PIC uC.

-Any failures yet with the HV160?
-What´s the difference of HV140 & ICE HV160?
-Matt, I read something that you have a deal on these?

I will go up from 8t to 9t on first sprocket on the second drive. That will give about 5 km/h and be nicer to the chain.

The bike is a City trasher so top speed around 55 is plenty. But it´s a must to smoke all kids on EU-scooters!

/Goethe

Heheheh! I'm so excited when my bike is finally running, so I can also 'own' some 16 year old scooter noobs (I especially hate the sound of those damn things: 'BREEEEEEEHMMMMMMMMMMM')

 

[Goethe]

Nice bike! I really like it! So simple but cool I want to see a vid of it too

Hall´s will be a winter project and building an ESC around a PIC uC.

-Any failures yet with the HV160?
-What´s the difference of HV140 & ICE HV160?
-Matt, I read something that you have a deal on these?

I will go up from 8t to 9t on first sprocket on the second drive. That will give about 5 km/h and be nicer to the chain.

The bike is a City trasher so top speed around 55 is plenty. But it´s a must to smoke all kids on EU-scooters!

/Goethe

Heheheh! I'm so excited when my bike is finally running, so I can also 'own' some 16 year old scooter noobs (I especially hate the sound of those damn things: 'BREEEEEEEHMMMMMMMMMMM')

If I ever become president of the EU my first promise to the people will be to make a law that only allows mopeds with at least 2 gears and no centrifugal clutch.

I´ve ordered a HV160 and got some work done on the brakes this night. So a movie in a couple of days might be possible.

Got any thread of your build?

/Goethe

 

[johnrobholmes]

I like! How are you hanging the batteries on it?

 

[Goethe]

I like! How are you hanging the batteries on it?

The plan was to mount everything under the bike and incapsulate it together with motor and transmission, no visual parts. But I think it will be hard to fit with active cooling for the motor and ESC.
So I think I put the batteries in the triangle some how, but I still want a slim & neat look and not fill the triangle completely.

For test rides I just taped two batteries on the frame.

/Goethe

 

[mwkeefer]

Goethe,

Nice and simple, straight forward and I love it!

If you do encapsulate it, use somthing like lexan to keep it all visible - goes along with the whole "Civil disobedience" theme, kinda like... Hey yea, it's a motor... get over it and move along officer

-Mike

 

[Goethe]

Goethe,

Nice and simple, straight forward and I love it!

If you do encapsulate it, use somthing like lexan to keep it all visible - goes along with the whole "Civil disobedience" theme, kinda like... Hey yea, it's a motor... get over it and move along officer

-Mike

Thanks Mike!

Hmm...lexan. Now you gave me something think about!

/Goethe

 

[mwkeefer]

Lexan - easy to mold and light weight, can be left unpainted and should still be available from art supply and local hobby shops. I've used it for bodies on RC cars for decades but I've found it makes a perfect rain proof cover for things normally left uncovered.
-Mike

 

[AussieJester]

lexan. Now you gave me something think about!

Check my mate Matts acrylic plexi battery housing might give you some ideas

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17330&start=60

KiM

 

[Byte]

If I ever become president of the EU my first promise to the people will be to make a law that only allows mopeds with at least 2 gears and no centrifugal clutch.

I´ve ordered a HV160 and got some work done on the brakes this night. So a movie in a couple of days might be possible.

Got any thread of your build?

/Goethe

Heheheh


I've looked 6 times in this topic now and I'm liking your bike more and more! It's so simple but awesome!

Got some questions for you:
- Which tires are those? They look very nice
- Where did you buy the pulleys?
- What's your range with the 15Ah LiPo's?
- Did you solder any additional caps to the ESC?
- Where do you put your feet on lol? Are they just hanging in the air?


Oh, and please (PLEASE!) make a vid when you get the HV160


EDIT: Forgot to say: you got a very nice workroom over there

 

[Goethe]

Heheheh


I've looked 6 times in this topic now and I'm liking your bike more and more! It's so simple but awesome!

Got some questions for you:
- Which tires are those? They look very nice
- Where did you buy the pulleys?
- What's your range with the 15Ah LiPo's?
- Did you solder any additional caps to the ESC?
- Where do you put your feet on lol? Are they just hanging in the air?


Oh, and please (PLEASE!) make a vid when you get the HV160


EDIT: Forgot to say: you got a very nice workroom over there

I´m glad it´s in your taste!

My work shop is coming together. I recently moved to a house with my better half (who´s luckily has the same interest in engineering as I do) and finally got some room for machines and tools to realize my ideas.

-Tires are DMR Transition 24" (from Chain reaction cycle)
-Pulleys is bought from a Swedish company called Teknikprodukter and where expensive as hell. (Looking for a cheaper supplier)
-Haven't tested full range yet but I think something like 40 km or more.
-I have an extra bank with CAPS on the throttelizer. Think it is 4 CAPS at 220uF.
-So far my legs have pretty much been hanging out. But I'm going to put some pegs on tonight.

My test runs have been without foot rests and without brakes so the wheelies have been a little bit scary!

/Goethe

 

[Goethe]

Faak!

The new HV160 popped after 1 h riding. I´m so pissed at my self for pushing it to hard at low rpm. :x
It worked perfect the time it was alive though.

Ok what options do I have?

If I put hall´s in the motor what controller would suite my setup?


The bike is now ready to use on daily bases so I really want to sort the ESC part out and get back in the saddle.

/Goethe

 

[gwhy!]

Faak!

The new HV160 popped after 1 h riding. I´m so pissed at my self for pushing it to hard at low rpm. :x
It worked perfect the time it was alive though.

Ok what options do I have?

If I put hall´s in the motor what controller would suite my setup?


The bike is now ready to use on daily bases so I really want to sort the ESC part out and get back in the saddle.

/Goethe

Where you monitoring the current ?, do you know what sort of current you were pulling when it popped ? was the controller hot when it popped what was the peek current ?.

Need to know some stuff before any one can recommend a sensored controller/setup for you, there is a bit of a debate going on as to which controller will be suitable for this motor . I will be doing some testing on the smaller modified 6fet controller ( hopefully within the next week or 2 ) on the same motor as your running. A modded 12 or 18 fet controller would defo be up for the job but AJ keeps telling everyone its the size of a "house brick" but its not really that bad .

 

[recumpence]

Yup, the low speed stuff really sucks. I have gotten used to riding around that issue (and setting up my systems to minimize this).

Anyway, I hope you get it all worked out. We have really been pushing these systems super hard. Stuff is bound to brake. We all know the controllers are the weak link in these systems.

I am looking forward to your solution.

Matt

 

[AussieJester]

. A modded 12 or 18 fet controller would defo be up for the job but AJ keeps telling everyone its the size of a "house brick" but its not really that bad .

ROFL...correct a 12fet IS the size of a house brick the 18fet is like one and 1/2 house bricks, Luckily for you though the 6fet is capable according to GWhy so buy one of those they are more than acceptable size

Bad luck on the HV160...i think you should of had caps directly on the esc not just in the throtilzer i been advised they aren't as effective the further away they are from the ESC.

KiM

 

[Goethe]

Where you monitoring the current ?, do you know what sort of current you were pulling when it popped ? was the controller hot when it popped what was the peek current ?.

Need to know some stuff before any one can recommend a sensored controller/setup for you, there is a bit of a debate going on as to which controller will be suitable for this motor . I will be doing some testing on the smaller modified 6fet controller ( hopefully within the next week or 2 ) on the same motor as your running. A modded 12 or 18 fet controller would defo be up for the job but AJ keeps telling everyone its the size of a "house brick" but its not really that bad .

-If I'm looking at the right log file it pulled 4 very short peaks at 100A during a 6 s period. At the last peak I heard that something went wrong and shut the throttle. When opening it again after 20 s it went in to flames.
-Don´t now the temp at that time, but the ESC never went hot during my other testing when I was pulling 150A repeatedly.
-The size is not such a matter.

What controller is it that your going to test? I´m a little bit behind in the debate on those.... :?

/Goethe