The never told story before of the ebike revolution..

[electrocats]

ulterior motives, where we can hold to account businesses that overstate and overclaim their products. That more than anything is what I wanted to preserve and not see get lost.

This part, I don't really agree with at all.....
EDIT: For the record, I don't think Eric should've made this video, again, it will only cause others to push back and continue fueling the arguments. I think this sort of aggressive "shit talking" advertising does more harm than good for his image.....

The language of "holding business to account" sounds too authoritative but the sentiment is valid. Advertising is an ethically questionable business and E-products are massively prone to overstatement and over-claim. Uptake of e-mobility benefits from space to openly debate the merit of products and a home for creative ppl to refine, optimise and experiment.

I don't see a problem with Eric's video as long as ideas can be debated. Probably felt good to let it all out, especially while cursing on a scooter. Vendor squabbles come and go, no big deal; as long as we openly discuss the merit of info, products and content, from within and outside ES, another 'revolution' won't be needed.

Ah this was a much better written version of the point I was trying to convey here. I may have came off as a little too condescending in my last post.

 

[marty]

I made those videos. both unplanned.

video 2 was made after scooter crash left me with lame left leg and couldnt shoot the video we actually planned. so we did this video instead.

Nobody but me had an actual PHP Database back up which means the entire forum could be set up on any domian name in a few hours (and in fact i did have it set up ready to go) without losing anything. ES could have been had for free easily during that revolution.

It takes an admin to make a database back up.... and at the time i was granted admin access by knightmb for a short time.

If fact all the lost pics that were lost a year before the revolution could have been recovered from the database i had.

there was and still isnt any copyright notices posted on this forum..... the content is owned by the people who wrote it and not whoever owns the forum.

So if all that content was put up on a different domain...everyone would have quickly followed. At the time there were less than a few hundred active members.

Not sure of the legalities of this but to take a database back up and move it to a different domain name seems like stealing to me. Suspect knightmb gave you access to the back door so you could copy the forum to use as a backup and not to take it as he was trying to sell it.

Happy that justin_le bought the forum. Knightmb seemed like a guy running from one server to another with a thumb drive in his pocket.

List of some of Knightmb's server problems

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Well, that's certainly an interesting perspective of history.

alternative phacts.

personally the only thing i learned from those videos that didn't know before was eric outing himself as the long held mystery date.
no one plus karl g. give a ratt zazz, yet it weighs so heavily on his mind that he felt it cruicial to include this insignificant footnote to a footnote in E•S history.
the more he denied it the more conspicuous it seemed that i was compelled to go back over the whole 16 page thread.
it's so obvious, now that i can see the forest & not the trees.
thanx eric.


if you absolutely have to stick a pin in a moment of time, here is the true begining of the E•S forum:

I would be glad to host a forum for these discussions at mine. It doesn't have the same theme as visforvoltage, but I am my own service provider so I won't ever have to worry about mine being shut down It's mainly got e-bike related stuff, but I can add more categories as they are needed.

Thanks All!

Link:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/power-assist/conversations/topics/49100



by his own telling eric wasn't there for the discussion at the begining & wouldn't be showing his face for 4 more years!

so eric why aren't all hot n sweaty for v?
if anything you might have some small claim in the lineage of the current v.net as that's a more direct line.
it was the go to place at the time where all the kool kidz hung out.
if history had unfolded a little differently, if v.net hadn't imploded with gman going mad with power.
with everyone congregating over there & safe being the lone Wall-E poster here would you still be so keen on buying E•S?
we all know the answer to that, we'd be treated to videos of how you're the true father of VisforVoltage.
david herron would laugh in your face & rightfully so.
your impact on E•S is tangential at best & the emperor had the wisdom to recognize you would have gone all gman on us if you owned it.
dodged a bullet there, justin is the most benevolent dictator you could ever find, or hope for, or even imagine.

that was the begining of the exodus.
for the genesis only michael brown knows for certain but by my recollection the E•S forum was up & live i'll say over a year prior to that when i had initially tripped across it.
it consisted if your basic sparse php bulletin board with no activity on it save the few posts from knightmb.
the Endless-Sphere homepage consisted of a stock photo of a pretty young thing in an office setting as the face of micheal's website with ad copy outling the services he provided.
the ES vectorwire globe replaced it after everyone had to re-register by clicking to agree to new terms & conditons, suspiciously shortly before the sale to trevor anyone else remember that?


the name.
why do grown men lust after the name so?
eric should have simply appropriated the name along with the stolen database while he was at it.
neptronix got away with appropriating it, notice he didn't call it the neptronix ebike facebook page; a real class act.
but it is in keeping with the tradition sarted by michael brown when he first appropriated the name.
right when he initially set up his online business, scratching his head staring at the screen's flashing cursor asking...

'Enter Server Volume Name?.?.?.?.?.?.........'

looks over in the corner at the floor lamp in his home office standing next to his desk.

that's right illuminated initiates.
all kneel & bow down, worship the majesty & the power (all 150 watts of it) that is the awesomeness of the all-knowing sacred lamp.
hey, it's still not as whacked as scientology.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34886d

 

[Green Machine]

that scooter injured me right before video #2 so i couldnt walk even up to this day a week later. (still on crutches)

I dont know what posssessed me to build that kick scooter that goes 55mph (i crashed it at 12mph).

But it occurred to me lately it was some deep seeded need. And the core of ES a group that means a lot to me started in kick scoooters. Like literally in the last 2 weeks that occured to me.



I obviously have no resentments or ill will. i am amazed that i have somehow become a black sheep in the es group to many members.... i am that dark cloud I really dont think i deserve that.

I am pretty much the optimist and believe in all the ideals that small evs can change our world.

Here is a zappy list kick scooter meet up ..... you can see my skateboard up front which was powered by lithium batteries and this pic was from year 2000.

 

[Icewrench]

Since E S is ad free except in the for sale sections why does the luna cycle logo appear as your avtar?

 

[Green Machine]

I believe that you should know when a vendor is posting...

i think that is fair.


i have no problem changing my avatar though.

 

[electrocats]

Since E S is ad free except in the for sale sections why does the luna cycle logo appear as your avtar?

Come on...this is just a ridiculous.

 

[Green Machine]

Its ok I changed my avatar

 

[dogman dan]

Backing up the discussion a few posts,, The trouble with a forum supported by paid advertisers, is that one of the things typically bought and paid for by the advertisers is editing.

So lets say it's back in 2008,,, Wilderness Energy was selling a lead acid battery kit that claimed to go 20 miles AT 20 mph. Of course,, it would go more like 6 miles at 20 mph. And they have a big expensive ad on the forum website.

So then lets say a customer gets on the forum and complains that there is no way the WE claims for range at 20 mph are true. Next thing you know, that post vanishes like smoke. The Ads pervert the content of the forum.

THAT kind of forum,, is what ES is against being. You CAN complain about a vendor here,, until you take the argument personal, or racial, or whatever. We won't edit it,, unless you start literally spamming the forum with same old complaints about the vendor in every thread.

ANY vendor can post ads on this forum for free... They just have to be in the for sale section.

 

[markz]

Green Machine - How are you the blacksheep of E.S. I don't see where this is coming from.
A little heated back & forth is all I read.

 

[neptronix]

So then lets say a customer gets on the forum and complains that there is no way the WE claims for range at 20 mph are true. Next thing you know, that post vanishes like smoke. The Ads pervert the content of the forum.

THAT kind of forum,, is what ES is against being. You CAN complain about a vendor here,, until you take the argument personal, or racial, or whatever. We won't edit it,, unless you start literally spamming the forum with same old complaints about the vendor in every thread.

Dogman, thanks for this. That's exactly how ES was moderated when i came here.. and it's what's attracted me to this place in the first place.. and has kept me here. This place has the fairest and most liberal moderation i've ever seen in an internet community, and i strongly believe that the high quality of this community is a result of that.

 

[dogman dan]

Most of us ES regulars lasted about 5 posts on the other motorized bike forums. Ad driven gasser forums. We'd say something that pissed off an advertiser, and our posts would vanish for no good reason. Once you see that, f--- wasting my time writing on that forum. V for Voltage not quite that bad, but I learned fast I could not write in my normal style there without them editing it. They'd delete anything remotely like a hot debate.

 

[neptronix]

... Once you see that, f--- wasting my time writing on that forum. V for Voltage not quite that bad, but I learned fast I could not write in my normal style there without them editing it. They'd delete anything remotely like a hot debate.

Yup.. seen a lot of that on the net.

I call that 'lazy moderation'. The easiest way to keep a forum orderly is to make sure nobody disagrees, so you take the outcasts and dissenters and chuck them in the gulag the second they open their mouth, and you end up with a community that is a nice orderly hive mind, but never undergoes important revolutions in opinion that need to happen in order for it to survive long term.

The intent of that type of moderation is not to be aggressive, but to avoid spending extra time trying to find the nuance in what people are talking about and investigating a bit to see if something actually represents a danger to the community or not. Usually it doesn't.

I stay away from posting on reddit because most groups there are ran by lazy moderators. Don't you dare tell anyone something contrary to their beliefs there. And don't even think that you'll be given the chance to explain yourself if you let something contrary slip out of your mouth.

This place is a haven for misfits and thinkers.. may it always remain that way.

 

[fechter]

I missed when this topic popped up. There are a few similar ones floating around.
While past history is interesting and maybe useful for people to know where we came from, it is history.

In my vision, ES is the place for EV builders, hackers, and basic EV science. The other thing that makes ES pretty unique is the lack of advertising and control by vendors. Independent testing by super smart people with super expensive equipment beats any advertising hype. The part I like the most is product development and hacking. I was one of (if not the) first people to upgrade the FETs in a controller with IRFB4110s. It wasn't too long before Lyen and others were getting controllers made in China with 4110s already installed. I don't miss those crappy stock 75NF75 FETs. Just one example of many ways ES has steered the market. What starts out as somebody's idea built in their garage eventually becomes something commercially available to the public.

If you look at what you can buy off-the-shelf today vs. 5 or 10 years ago, the difference is amazing. To really empower the ebike revolution, we need thousands of ebikers and companies with money to help change stupid laws and promote e-vehicles in general. I wonder what it will be like in another 5 - 10 years?

 

[spinningmagnets]

I think it was Justin who told me that it only costs less than $10 to upgrade hubmotors from the common "yescom" 0.50mm thick laminations to the more efficient and cooler running 0.35mm

Anyone could have been the one to start ordering all hubmotors with thinner lams. I think it was cromotor that started that. Perhaps crown motors had thin lams and aluminum stator supports earlier (as a heat sponge) but, it appears their higher price kept them a rare example to read about. China will make whatever customers buy. Even if it is originally a bad design with obvious cheap upgrades available.

Thicker phase wires that do NOT run out a hollow axle tip...etc

 

[Green Machine]

What is history anyway ? Yeah its behind us..... but its also what is in front of us..... An echo of the past now in the future; a reflex from the future on the past.

History is the way we are suppose to learn.

except in environments where history is white washed by those in power.

That is why there is suppose to be freedom of speech and free journalism etc.


If a 30 page moderator thread has really disappeared in the moderator forum that was significant part of the history of this forum where a group of people fought to set this forum "free" and if that 30 page thread was replaced with a public relations letter drafted from the owner of this forum .... that would be concerning to me. iF justin really has no recollection of that 30 page thread where all the negotiations took place to the ownership change of this forum.... that is also very concerning. i thought all the moderatatorss could see it...but i am told now it is gone.... very sad.

 

[Stealth_Chopper]

I review these great documentary videos every few months to remind me of pioneers & entrepreneur$ of the eBike (R)evolution.

I came accross these on es facebook.. very interesting.. a good watch, and a lot of info you may not know about the es..

Part 1
https://youtu.be/2uwUq-Ivvsg

Part 2
https://youtu.be/h0jfke2pzmw


-Steveo

Re: Is this the same KnightMB that sold us out?
by bigmoose » Aug 07 2021 12:37pm

If my memory is correct member methods was knee deep into things when the "sell out" was going down. I think I remember him holding the "nuclear option" trigger... waiting for a decision not to sell to the monitizers. Would be nice to hear his memories on the subject too.

 

[MadRhino]

That is old history.
The hard core community was ready to migrate to a new domaine name. Lots of posts had been deleted, and even more pictures were lost.
Justin finally saved ES name and reassured the members about the non-commercial status of the forum. thanks again.

 

[ZeroEm]

by MadRhino » Aug 10 2021 9:23pm

That is old history.
The hard core community was ready to migrate to a new domaine name. Lots of posts had been deleted, and even more pictures were lost.
Justin finally saved ES name and reassured the members about the non-commercial status of the forum. thanks again.

Yes, The new people see it as a tail how the righteous rallied together for a greater cause than themselves. It was the first beginning's of the movement that saved out planet.

 

[markz]

Some people are real good, slick talkers
They are excellent salesmen
So they may be pompous and elaborate on their part of a story, or how great they are but there is little blow back on their business acumen, meaning you get what you paid for.

 

[Eastwood]

Interesting topic as I am new to this community. So the guy in the video is he still active on here or… I still need to finish the second video as I was falling asleep while listening last night.

So Justin really went out of his way to keep "es” alive and free!
Respect to you Justin! Thank you Sir!

 

[markz]

History indeed GM
Lurking around somewhere no doubt huh

What is history anyway ? Yeah its behind us..... but its also what is in front of us..... An echo of the past now in the future; a reflex from the future on the past.

 

[MadRhino]

by MadRhino » Aug 10 2021 9:23pm

That is old history.
The hard core community was ready to migrate to a new domaine name. Lots of posts had been deleted, and even more pictures were lost.
Justin finally saved ES name and reassured the members about the non-commercial status of the forum. thanks again.

Yes, The new people see it as a tail how the righteous rallied together for a greater cause than themselves. It was the first beginning's of the movement that saved out planet.

The movement has started long before. ES was huge already, and that is the reason why some were interested buying it and make a commercial website.

 

[markz]

Yes, thankfully ES was saved from commerciality.
I aint to big on the history, but history is important.
Would have been a shame to see banner ads and mods pushing advertised products and deleting high powered stuff, like MTBR forum does.
Would have been cool if I got into ebikes earlier like 2001'ish but the products then as apposed to now way different, battery chemistry, size, weight

The movement has started long before. ES was huge already, and that is the reason why some were interested buying it and make a commercial website.

 

[Stealth_Chopper]

Oh, the successful American entrepreneur , Eric, whose popular Californian capitalist company manufactures the best high energy robust battery battery packs created with wire bonded technology? Yes he's a force in the business.

Interesting topic as I am new to this community. So the guy in the video is he still active on here or… I still need to finish the second video as I was falling asleep while listening last night.