Thoughts? Ebike ticketed/conviction upheld (Canada)

the best thing about that news story for me was that because of social distancing people are choosing scooters over transit :lol:

i knew there was an angle to this, bc transit is pissed that its losing money!!!!

this could be a good story, the city might get into negotiations with the Motorino Dealer to resolve this issue.

Vancouver had its Bicycle Mayor building bike lanes and Vancouver is supposed to be bike friendly.
 
so what about electric unicycles/ electric wheels. according to law they should be banned from any public path or road?
 
goatman said:
so what about electric unicycles/ electric wheels. according to law they should be banned from any public path or road?
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Well a good argument is a "BI"cycle is different then a "UNI"cycle, 2 wheels or cycles vs 1, I havent read anything yet stating specifics as its always ever stated as BIcycle, then what about TRIcycles.

Interestingly enough, I saw a electrified uni self level stand up unit today, buddy was flying through the parking lot. It was amusing but a toy a novelty item.
 
3 years ago I bought new electric Ford Focus, and parked my ebike for good.
But things were already getting sketchy in Toronto for ebikers.
Too many idiots riding these stupid scooters all over the place.
Sidewalks, drunk, no Dl, etc.
Now I see guys on these things easily going 50 km/h in the city.
Obviously, modified.
1 year ago I noticed guy on the normal looking motorcycle in my neighborhood , but it was super quiet.
Curios, I pulled up beside him, sure enough, it was emoto. No pedals, no license plate. At least he's wearing proper helmet.

UFUDXr6.jpg


Heck, few months ago I even saw guy in the 3 wheel "mobility scooter" going at least 40 km/h on the sidewalk :)

As for the poor ebiker in BC, I sure feel sorry for him.
Some idiot cop, who had nothing better to do at 6:45 AM, decided to bust this ebiker.
On top of it, he probably spent shit load of money on the lawyer to bring case to the trial, lost it, appealed it, and lost it too.
 
LSBW said:
3 years ago I bought new electric Ford Focus, and parked my ebike for good.
But things were already getting sketchy in Toronto for ebikers.
Too many idiots riding these stupid scooters all over the place.
Sidewalks, drunk, no Dl, etc.
Now I see guys on these things easily going 50 km/h in the city.
Obviously, modified.
1 year ago I noticed guy on the normal looking motorcycle in my neighborhood , but it was super quiet.
Curios, I pulled up beside him, sure enough, it was emoto. No pedals, no license plate. At least he's wearing proper helmet.

UFUDXr6.jpg


Heck, few months ago I even saw guy in the 3 wheel "mobility scooter" going at least 40 km/h on the sidewalk :)

As for the poor ebiker in BC, I sure feel sorry for him.
Some idiot cop, who had nothing better to do at 6:45 AM, decided to bust this ebiker.
On top of it, he probably spent shit load of money on the lawyer to bring case to the trial, lost it, appealed it, and lost it too.
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The price they are charging for a sub $1k cost bike is larcenous.
 
John in CR said:
The price they are charging for a sub $1k cost bike is larcenous.
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Shipping and duty drive the price of imported goods to the moon. If they're a brick and mortar retailer rent is astronomically high as well, in addition to high prices for related overhead. Plus sales taxes totaling 12% on top (in BC anyway) are just icing on the cake for the buyer. It adds up quickly.
 
HK12K said:
John in CR said:
The price they are charging for a sub $1k cost bike is larcenous.
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Shipping and duty drive the price of imported goods to the moon. If they're a brick and mortar retailer rent is astronomically high as well, in addition to high prices for related overhead. Plus sales taxes totaling 12% on top (in BC anyway) are just icing on the cake for the buyer. It adds up quickly.
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Don't excuse it. A lot of scooters fit in a container, so total shipping cost are likely to be under $100/unit. What are the duties on imported EV's if any?...I doubt it's more than 25%. That puts total unit cost at most at $1,000 and probably less on that low power system. I'm looking at 3kw bikes at about that price including shipping.

How long do you think a car or motorcycle dealership would stay open if they marked them up at over 3X cost? They wouldn't sell any and would close the first month. Except for the thieving bicycle manufacturers that have no qualms about larcenous pricing, the only way for an EV business to have long-term profitability is through volume, and you can't grow to real volume selling something for $3,300 that can be purchased in China for $500-600.
Those who get in the business for a quick buck inevitably fail and don't help the cause at all.
 
heres some larcenous pricing, a retailer in Vancouver wants $7000 for a crap stealth knock-off but in the ad on craigslist I see the bike has 24x3.0 tires, so I email asking if they sell tires, they do :bigthumb:
$900 for 2 tires, no rims, no tubes, just tires???

im thinking its a typo, maybe $90 not $900, so i reply $900 for 2 tires, what brand are they?

Carrystone

i didnt even google it. SHYSTERS everywhere, i just want to meet the suckers buying that crap, ive got a bunch a crap i can sell them :lol:
 
The point was that for a person to order a single unit they would end up paying through the nose with no guarantee of receiving a serviceable product. That $1000 bike would probably cost you another $1000 to ship, then taxed upon receipt. So as a buyer it's a big financial question mark. Most individuals aren't buying container-loads.

The shysters selling these things know that. They're also likely paying ten to twenty thousand dollars per month for their retail space and have to be there 7 days a week, pay the bills, and bring some money home. I'm not excusing them, the market is full of absolute thieves, but the cost of doing business in this country is absurd. No one is going to do it as a public service.

I wish the prices were based in reality, but here we are in outer space.
 
People making $400+ per hour, with no interest in learning anything

deserve to be "fleeced" as we see it

and are happy so long as they get decent value.

Given the fledgling tiny market, high risks , very high profits are what is required to develop stable and effective sales distribution ** and service ** channels.

Good eBikes **should** and need to cost as much as a decent used car for now or the market will not develop.

Of course DIY tinkerers will get better value until it becomes an efficient mass market, but at the rate we're going in NA that may be many decades away.

There is no "morality" in pricing, up to the seller, and their market, not for others to judge.

If they are stupid they disappear.
 
Half of the problem is the bicycle industry itself. Raising their prices by 2 points per year, year after year, somehow convincing people that a 200 year old design is worth ten grand because of that sweet new *insert nonsense here*.

Add batteries and a motor and surely that's worth 20k, right?

You could buy a brand new Zero, with some accessories, for the cost of a top spec non electric Specialized. That's f'd up
 
Again, the market decides.

In America, generally bikes are for kids, playing recreation, sport.

The utility transportation functions are 0.00001%, mostly poor or immigrant.

Millions of USians have silly money to play with, mostly looking for high social status, so the more it costs the better - Veblen goods. Practicality and value for money mostly irrelevant to those markets, where the profits are is where the energy goes.

Walmart is at the other end.

If you want the market to broaden, we need to encourage every target niche, take what we can get

and push ourselves to develop what **we** need, at the same time.
 
In a real city, cycling adoption rates for practical transportation are much higher than you suggest. It's most of the people I serve at the bike shop where I work. I encounter other people riding bikes for transportation every time I leave the house. It's one of the strategies hourly workers can use to afford living in an appealing city center.

I'm aware that there are much more expensive bikes for sale out there, but at my shop, we only stock new bikes that retail from $429 to $1650, and we rarely have customer requests or interest in more expensive bikes than that. (Folks do ask about cheaper bikes, often.)

We could probably find a few models of multi-speed bike to sell for less than $400, but at this point their quality would be so compromised that it wouldn't be a good value for the customer or for the shop. We rely on an intermittent supply of used bikes to serve that end of the market.
 
NYC is my city, and I very rarely go anywhere near it these days.

I understand NYPD is very draconian about confiscating bikes that violate their crazy-conservative regs - plus big fines

and now have millions of dollars' worth in city warehouse waiting to get auctioned off or scrapped or whatever they do with them.

Apparently poor delivery drivers have been impacted the most.
 
john61ct said:
NYC
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Lately I've been watching a lot of non-ebiking NYC bicycling (messenger, delivery) on Youtube and I see the skinny tire people blowing red lights at mach speed like its nothing, and doing so in front of the pd. They literally put pedestrians lives at risk like its nothing to them. I give them great credit for the balls they have to do that, the pigs need to crack down on those people! I literally saw a pig every block sometimes I saw two vehicles and more parked in the more congested park/street areas. There are even pigs standing in the middle of an intersections every other block or two.
 
https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc/bik/d/burnaby-specialized-works-venge/7127587645.html

Asking $12,500. Pre-owned. Never ridden.

Let that sink in a minute.
 
HK12K said:
https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc/bik/d/burnaby-specialized-works-venge/7127587645.html

Asking $12,500. Pre-owned. Never ridden.

Let that sink in a minute.
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It doesnt have a motor, or is it hidden in the tubes (Vivax)?
 
No motor. Bicycle prices are just nuts like that.

Can you imagine dropping 13 grand on something and never once using it?
 
Easily.

For hundreds of thousands of people, the relative equivalent of my leaving that AA battery in the drawer until it's dead.

Lots spend more than that on a bit of nose candy for a night out with a couple friends.
 
if I wanted an expensive carbon fiber for a deal

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/nvn/bik/d/coquitlam-luna-size-large-emountain-bike/7133027557.html
 
goatman said:
if I wanted an expensive carbon fiber for a deal

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/nvn/bik/d/coquitlam-luna-size-large-emountain-bike/7133027557.html
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$3500 not $7000
https://lunacycle.com/x1-enduro-ebike/
Ludicrous Mode (2000 watts) with Throttle $300.00
Silent Treatment (Half as Loud as Stock Drive) $200.00
 
that's $3500 USD, you bring anything across the line from the USA the price doubles in $CAD

I see you had a Tornado in NE Calgary today
 
goatman said:
that's $3500 USD, you bring anything across the line from the USA the price doubles in $CAD

I see you had a Tornado in NE Calgary today
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Whaaaaaaaaaaat
doubles

Well I never brought a $3500 complete ebike across the border via mail or otherwise.
$3500usd is $4800cdn, plus $500usd is $700 = $5500cad then there is mail, import, then of course Fed Ex will charge you a fee of $500.

I'd just buy that Cyclone Elite with 16kw of fun!
 
pretty much, doubles. thats what I do to see if I can afford it.

bought this cr700, cost me $775cad when all was said and done

https://www.amazon.com/Spectra-Precision-CR700-Combination-Receiver/dp/B07PW9R5XF

ebc-a20 cost $190 cad to get in my hands

https://www.amazon.com/EBC-A20-Electronic-capacity-discharge-instrument/dp/B081VFX5G4/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=ebc-a20&qid=1590982786&sr=8-2

here it is American dollars
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B07G7Y3P58/ref=dp_olp_afts?ie=UTF8&condition=all
 
Wasn't going to comment on this thread, but I saw I've been ahem... Referred to a few times.

Yes, I do have what I would term a discrete eBike that is over limits here. I don't call it stealth, as someone who knows what they are looking for will be able to tell what it is.

Would I be a hypocrite for saying that the Motorino XMR shouldn't be an eBike, while riding around mine? Only if I would ever defend the same charge against me. I am aware that if I am pulled over, I am up for about $1000 in fines, and the loss of 75% of my motorcyclist license for riding an unregistered motorcycle.

The thing is, if I was fined, I'd plead no contest. I recognise I am breaking the law, the same way as I - and every other driver, breaks the law when they go 1km/h over the limit, or every cyclist who does the "Idaho stop" (when not in Idaho). And just like I don't contest speeding tickets when I know I am in the wrong, I wouldn't contest this fine either.

That doesn't mean I feel the law has no place at all, or that I can break any law that I'm willing to pay the penalty for. I wouldn't commit murder, even if I was willing to do 20 years for it, for example. I recognise that traffic offenses - Including riding an unregistered motorcycle - is not a criminal offense, or morally dubious, but rather one of public risk management and public order, and the law must be written for the lowest common denominator.

This is played out by the fact that both police and judges have the discretion to apply traffic law differently than written, but they can't with criminal cases. Just as police can ignore someone going 10km/h over the limit on a dry straight stretch, but fine them if they did the same on a wet, dark twisty road, and magistrates can overturn almost any traffic offense, no police can refuse to charge someone for murder (as long as there's probable cause), and no judge find a person guilty of murder, but apply no penalty. So... I'm applying my discretion, with the full understanding that I have to wear the consequences if I am wrong.

I have been overtaken by lycras while on full throttle, and certainly by lycras that would weigh more than me - more than me and the extra weight of motor and battery too. I figure even going at 45km/h, I'm still well within the same risk profile as someone fully compliant with the law. That's what lets me do it with a clean conscience.

To be honest, I don't think the risk is that much higher for the Motorino XMR - A 70kg man riding a 12kg road bike doing 45km/h an hour - let's face it, that's within the reach of almost anyone that's fit - imparts 6600J on impact. A 70kg man riding the Motorino (120kg) at 32km/h, imparts 7500 - only 900 joules or 13% more.

What I do think is more serious, is that Motorino has not met the standard, but are deceiving their buyers by claiming it does. In Australia, if I was a lawyer, I'd be asking for what's known here as a "Section 10" - An "Offense proven, no penalty imposed", otherwise known as the "Honest and reasonable mistake". The judge would have to decide, whether a reasonable person who had been advised by a retail store that their bike was legal, would have taken that advice on face value, or would have checked themselves. Given that the average layman can't test the bike, they would have to conclude a reasonable person would take the advice on face value. I'd then be going after the retailer for a full refund, and an injunction against selling them until they are compliant.

I am also building an electric motorcycle. When I am done, it will be about 30kg lighter than it was when it was a gas motorcycle. However, it will still go 150km/h, and it has all the same risk profile as it was before I converted it. However, I have downloaded every regulation and standard that I am obliged to adhere to, and I'm not pretending in any way it is exempt from registration. It will be independently certified by an engineer that it is no less safe than it was when it was petrol. (In fact, coincidentally, it will be built on the same frame as that Emmo Zone GTS that's claiming no license, no registration! That Emmo Zone GTS looks like it's built on a Kawasaki Ninja!)
 
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