Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-28/china-is-about-to-bury-elon-musk-in-batteries

In all, global battery-making capacity is forecast to more than double by 2021 to 273 gigawatt-hours, up from about 103 gigawatt-hours today. That’s a huge opportunity, and China doesn’t want to miss it.
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RobertC said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-28/china-is-about-to-bury-elon-musk-in-batteries

In all, global battery-making capacity is forecast to more than double by 2021 to 273 gigawatt-hours, up from about 103 gigawatt-hours today. That’s a huge opportunity, and China doesn’t want to miss it.
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Groovy. Any idea watt cell format? And I assume some sort of lithium chemistry? (Bloomberg site behind a pay wall.)
 
if China do what they say they plan to do with electric vehicles, then they will need all of those batteries themselves !
a 300GWh of battery is only enough for 6 million vehicles @ 50kWh each..
China's long-term target is for 100 million new cars and buses to be produced each year by 2020, it says. China's Ministry of Industry and Information .
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Hillhater said:
if China do what they say they plan to do with electric vehicles, then they will need all of those batteries themselves !
a 300GWh of battery is only enough for 6 million vehicles @ 50kWh each..
China's long-term target is for 100 million new cars and buses to be produced each year by 2020, it says. China's Ministry of Industry and Information .
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But that is not counting the inevitable fakes! :twisted:
 
2 new lithium. Battery factories to be built in Australia. !....
....Australia’s first battery storage “gigafactory” is likely to be built in Darwin, with a new consortium planing to establish a large-scale lithium-ion manufacturing plant by the end of 2018.

Energy Renaissance, a company backed by engineering group UGL (now owned by CIMIC) says the first phase of the $100 million plant will create four distinct production lines, and will target niche utility and industrial scale markets in Australia and Asia.

Energy Renaissance is partnering with US battery storage company 24M, and is said to have the enthusiastic support, if not the financial backing, of the new Labor government, which also has a 50 per cent renewable energy target by 2030.

“Renaissance One” – as it will be known – is one of at least two “gigafactory” proposals for Australia, with the Boston Energy consortium led by former Macquarie Group property guru Bill Moss looking at a much larger 15GWh production line in Townsville.
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http://reneweconomy.com.au/battery-storage-gigafactory-planned-darwin-2018/
 
Not exactly a PR release, more of a insider rumour... :wink:
Tesla could have produced a "44160" format cell for use in the M3 ! :shock:
Well, they have been very unusually secretive about the pack details in the M3 for some reason ?
http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-4416-lithium-battery-cell-model-3-next-gen-s-x/
 
"Not exactly a PR release, more of a insider rumour... :wink:
Tesla could have produced a "44160" format cell"

Any estimates on the amphours of a 44160?
 
Most likely it is a misunderstanding. What makes sense is that 4416 is a total number of 21-70 cells used in the pack, connected in 96s46p with capacity of 4,7Ah per cell (this nominal capacity in 21700 format was announced by Samsung more than 6 months ago) gives a 75kWh battery.
 
^^^^ I have only added only another guess. But this one is based on actually available technology. I am still thinking that anything with capacity much more than 5000mAh is still not available today. But the 5000mAh could be real. I think that LG Chem 21700 cells announced for FaradyFuture and now Fisker are very close to that value.
 
Hmm.. according to this document data http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-gets-80-5-kwh-battery-258-hp/ Tesla Model 3 have 80,5kWh battery. That gives me exactly 5000mAh capacity in 21-70 format cells and that is great. But maybe more interessting is that there should be PMSM used rather than Tesla common ACIM.
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
Pajda said:
But maybe more interessting is that there should be PMSM used rather than Tesla common ACIM.
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Tesla would cease to exist in short order if they were to do that.
a hole in the ground is not very interesting.
where do you think the company's name & core being came from?
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?? Tesla was all about AC power. Both induction motors and permanent magnet motors use AC drive waveforms.
 
Well, the PM motor is recorded on those official EPA/Tesla documents, so unless someone has made a huge Furfy, its hard to dispute.
Musk had previously said the 3 would have its own motor.
Harder to believe is the reference to regen braking on the front wheels ??
 
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
Pajda said:
But maybe more interessting is that there should be PMSM used rather than Tesla common ACIM.
Click to expand...
Tesla would cease to exist in short order if they were to do that.
a hole in the ground is not very interesting.
where do you think the company's name & core being came from?
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Nothing sacred about building the rotor field through slip induced current vs PMs making the field.

All mature EV powertrains will end up reluctance based eventually.
 
liveforphysics said:
All mature EV power trains will end up reluctance based eventually.
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QFT... gents mark Luke's words above. I have "heard" that also from my interactions from 8 to 12 years ago... It has been in the pipeline waiting for the right power level, control electronics, etc. to come to the forefront.
 
i would be stunned if Tesla Motors used anything other than Tesla's motor (origin of the company name, not that the motor uses AC). :roll:
they may dabble with PM at some point but it's unlikely they would ever part with their beating heart unless forced to by new tech way down the road.

but senitimentality aside i'm not talking about any technical reasons, i meaning for geopolitical economic reasons.
it would be suicidal for Tesla to put themselves in a position where they would be dependant on a single source supplier.
to bring this back to batteries it's for the same reason they went with the sub-optimal choice of 18650, can't be held for ransom like Fiskar.
 
it would be suicidal for Tesla to put themselves in a position where they would be dependent on a single source supplier
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I agree, except...if I recall correctly, reluctance motors use fewer strategic metals, making them less vulnerable to international trade disputes. Also, I wouldn't put it past Tesla to be developing their own proprietary motor, and then building a US-based factory to make them.
 
EV drive based on reluctance principle only is a drive of the future and will remain there for quite a few years. There is still huge technological problem to run them smooth and quietly in compare to modern PMSM.

The greatest PMSM advantage over ACIM is still significantly higher overall efficiency. On the other hand Tesla ACIM motors design greatest advantage over PMSM is in brutal overloading capacity for the same motor frame size.
 
Pajda said:
EV drive based on reluctance principle only is a drive of the future and will remain there for quite a few years. There is still huge technological problem to run them smooth and quietly in compare to modern PMSM.

The greatest PMSM advantage over ACIM is still significantly higher overall efficiency. On the other hand Tesla ACIM motors design greatest advantage over PMSM is in brutal overloading capacity for the same motor frame size.
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Reluctance powertrains will be in multiple high volume production EVs by 2020. They are already in test vehicles on the roads today.

Controller technology continues to evolve rapidly. The material performance of copper and iron remain the same.

As EV volumes increase, the value in a mfg solving reluctance motor drive gets a larger and larger bounty, as PM material cost eliminated from each vehicle becomes more substantial.

For the same reasons, the copper today cast into a Teslas Induction motor rotor will also be a meaningful realized cost savings to eliminate, as it's only making an interacting magnetic field through via slip losses, when no additional losses are a hard requirement.

The beauty of Teslas Induction machine design was no-brushes while still having the ability to make high starting torque while in phase slip from a constant frequency (60Hz) AC source. This meant no VFD inverter required to operate, and this was an incredible benefit in an era with no VFDs or parts suitable to make them.

If you are already going to run the motor from an inverter, SR ultimately provides higher power density at a lower mfg cost with equal or superior reliability and ruggedness.
 
liveforphysics said:
Reluctance powertrains will be in multiple high volume production EVs by 2020. They are already in test vehicles on the roads today.
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The question is if we are talking about the same principle. I am very sceptical that SRM (switched reluctance motor with no PM) design will be commonly used in the near future for EV drives. Yes there are exist many articles about SRM future but the same amount of articles can be also found about in-wheel motors which also nobody uses in mass production cars. And the main reason is still significant technological problems. I am quite sure that in 2020 we will still live with PMSM (more specifically IPM-SM).

The second question is that in almost all modern PMSM used in electric vehicles the torque is not excited only by PM but there is used also a reluctance torque component. This is done by the IPM rotor magnetic circuit design with V-shape permanent magnet orientation and air cavities between them. So we can talk about hybrid excitation.
 
Most production EVs today, including GM, Nissan, Toyota, Zero, etc already all use hybrid reluctance/PM rotors as you mentioned. As the controller tech improves, you find the mass of PM needed gets smaller, eventually only being used for cruise at light loads (this also enables non-rare-earth-element magnetic materials to be suitable as we see in some modern GM and Toyota motors.)

IPM hybrid rotors have been the pathway to short flux path reluctance motors.
 
liveforphysics said:
As EV volumes increase, the value in a mfg solving reluctance motor drive gets a larger and larger bounty, as PM material cost eliminated from each vehicle becomes more substantial.
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Manufacturers have difficulty with Reluctance Drive ? Why ?
 
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