Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

And if you treat the content posted by all members equally you are in for a world of hurt.

The key to learning from online discussion forums is developing your discernment, as to who to pay attention to, and most importantly, who to ignore.

Otherwise you may as well just try to learn from random SM feeds and watching YouTube videos.

And getting a good sense of those distinctions before ever posting, is key. Why we have two ears only one mouth...
 
Some news from ADDEN on the "solid state" proto - (fund raising?) claims. 82% @ 20,000 cycles and 10C charge ! :shock:
110.6 kW/kg, with an energy density up to 631.1 Wh/kg. capacities. Interesting times. :)

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/harvard-engineers-invent-a-solid-state-battery-that-never-dies-it-s-a-game-changer-198518.html

https://www.electrive.com/2022/09/13/adden-energy-achieves-breakthrough-in-solid-state-battery-development/
 
speedmd said:
Some news from ADDEN on the "solid state" proto - (fund raising?) claims. 82% @ 20,000 cycles and 10C charge ! :shock:
110.6 kW/kg, with an energy density up to 631.1 Wh/kg. capacities. Interesting times. :)

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/harvard-engineers-invent-a-solid-state-battery-that-never-dies-it-s-a-game-changer-198518.html

https://www.electrive.com/2022/09/13/adden-energy-achieves-breakthrough-in-solid-state-battery-development/
Click to expand...

Tons of miracles work in a coin cell that have no scaling path to make a cell with even 1Ah. I hope they are onto something great, but I've seen many miracle cell performance in a coin cell format (which is all they mentioned building).
 
liveforphysics said:
speedmd said:
Some news from ADDEN on the "solid state" proto - (fund raising?) claims. 82% @ 20,000 cycles and 10C charge ! :shock:
110.6 kW/kg, with an energy density up to 631.1 Wh/kg. capacities. Interesting times. :)

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/harvard-engineers-invent-a-solid-state-battery-that-never-dies-it-s-a-game-changer-198518.html

https://www.electrive.com/2022/09/13/adden-energy-achieves-breakthrough-in-solid-state-battery-development/
Click to expand...

Tons of miracles work in a coin cell that have no scaling path to make a cell with even 1Ah. I hope they are onto something great, but I've seen many miracle cell performance in a coin cell format (which is all they mentioned building).
Click to expand...

Interesting. Are you also testing - tearing down coin cell failures? Would be great to know what pitfalls their scaling typically experience. I could see potentially just thermal expansion issues and under designed interconnects, tripping up many top scientists that don't understand the bigger picture and under estimate things.
 
liveforphysics said:
They don't get Adam Savage, because they hire me instead to find out for them with precise temperature control fixtures and 7.5digit instrumentation and up to +-2,000Amp cycling.
After checking electrical performance, you must access safety performance behavior.
For this we load them into the thermal runaway calorimeter (one for large cells and one for small cells), induce thermal runaway and observe the total joules of energy, thermal power release rates, gas volumes and gas species.

Business is slammed with work. Many folks want to have wild claims validated before they invest in various battery tech. A lot of snake oil out there, but also a handful of amazing gems.
Click to expand...

That's an awesome testing regimen.
 
Luke, I was impressed with how the tabless 4680 cell could provide high amps with low heat. Is there any chance Tesla might make tabless 4680's with LiFePO4 to add to the choices?

A while back, Tesla announced that their patents were open to all, so...does that mean other companies can now make tabless cells?
 
From what I understand they are now rolling prototype 4680 LFP canisters in china. No word as to what they are going in. Certain they will put them into mobile apps if the cost / energy density is acceptable. With the current tax incentives, they may move most of this development - production work state side. They just moved out last week most of the battery equipment that was not yet unboxed for the planned berlin battery line to ship to the USA.
 
spinningmagnets said:
Luke, I was impressed with how the tabless 4680 cell could provide high amps with low heat. Is there any chance Tesla might make tabless 4680's with LiFePO4 to add to the choices?

A while back, Tesla announced that their patents were open to all, so...does that mean other companies can now make tabless cells?
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, as much as I wanted to see incredible C-rates in the 4680 cells, the reason you only see them used in the model Y is because its the lowest power density power cell unit mass or volume of all the cell options Tesla makes right now.

This is why my Plaid Model S runs 18650 cells, while the model 3 runs 2170s and Y's run 4680s.

I think the issue stems around side cooling on a large diameter can, and heat islanding in the active material in the center of a larger cell. We measure the radial thermal conductivity of spiral wound jellyroll can cells between 0.4-0.6W/mK, while longitudinally we always see over 10W/mK, and sometimes 18W/mK on a power cell with thick foils.
They have motivation for side cooling manifolds for thermal runaway propagation boundaries, and bottom cooling would increase total pack height by more than just the liquid cooling plate, but also the thermal insulation layer before the armor layer.

The good news is, Tesla isn't afraid to make changes as they learn how to improve. For this reason, I see the format developing and the pack cooling interface choices developing and going far.
 
I always knew large cells would win out in time. But yeah, i can see how a large cell creates some serious thermal restrictions..
Would love to assemble a simple 1p 20s pack.. i hear these 4680's pack ~25ah each :thumb: :bolt:
 
I'd happily strap 15lbs of Tesla cell on a bike to make a 1.8kwhr pack.. i think i've ran a few more lbs of RC Lipo on a bike and it only came out to 1.2kwhrs!
 
..actually what would really rock is something like agnuism's 3d printed 18650 cell holders but in 4680 format..
Have a problem cell? pop it out and replace it in the field.. :thumb: :bolt:
 
Have to admit the DIY bennies from having holders is vast. Shame to not take advantage from a structures standpoint to the heavy "full metal jacket" of the tsla structural pack optimized cell format. I can see some significant weight reduction potential of the cell if desired as well as much better cooling potential if you don't need the extra sturdy steel can structure. With the new CATL LFP chemistry and the claimed 3000+ charge cycle life, repair ability, hopefully, would be very rare once it can be applied to this format. Most users will end up replacing the bike or battery due to obsolescence more than loss of function.
 
liveforphysics said:
Keep in mind, as much as I wanted to see incredible C-rates in the 4680 cells, the reason you only see them used in the model Y.
Click to expand...

Its also worth pointing out once the 4680 is fully sorted out it will produce less heat. So the need for cooling will not be as important. I would think if you can use a 4680 over a 2170 when it produces less heat per KW of power given to the drive train. This will be a non issue. The tab-less design gets Tesla part way there but I bet they had challenges with the Dry electrode and it would not surprise me if that added some IR.
 
Arlo1 said:
...once the 4680 is fully sorted out it will produce ...
Click to expand...

One perspective....
[youtube]8c1cmttKpDs[/youtube]
 
e-beach said:
Arlo1 said:
...once the 4680 is fully sorted out it will produce ...
Click to expand...

One perspective....
[youtube]8c1cmttKpDs[/youtube]
Click to expand...

I love Jordan!!! Watch all of his videos. If only Luke would do a deep dive on his youtube channel as well :)
 
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-e...logy-could-charge-electric-cars-in-5-minutes/

NASA has suggested an experimental cooling system it is funding could ultimately allow electric vehicle users to charge their cars within five minutes.

The agency said a team led by a Purdue University professor has developed the “subcooled flow boiling” technology for experimentation, with the hope it can control future systems’ temperatures in space.

“A team sponsored by NASA’s Biological and Physical Sciences Division is developing a new technology that will not only achieve orders-of-magnitude improvement in heat transfer to enable these systems to maintain proper temperatures in space, but will also enable significant reductions in size and weight of the hardware,” NASA said in a blog post last week.

“What’s more, this same technology may make owning an electric-powered car here on Earth easier and more feasible,” the post continued.

NASA indicated achieving such a feat of charging electric vehicles within five minutes would require chargers to provide current at 1,400 amperes, far higher than currently available technology....snip
Click to expand...
 
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