Three dead after electric taxi in Shenzhen explodes

[Lock]

http://www.thenanfang.com/blog/three-dead-after-electric-taxi-in-shenzhen-explodes-over-the-weekend/

Just after 3 o’clock on Sunday morning, a man driving a Nissan GT-R slammed into a BYD e6 electric taxi on Binhai Dadao. The driver, who witnesses say was drunk and speeding, fled the scene before turning himself in later yesterday.

The taxi, though, caught fire within seconds, incinerating the driver and his two female passengers before they had any time to escape. Some are now wondering if this would’ve happened had the taxi not had a huge and possibly fully-charged battery inside.

Full article in the link...

Lo Kok-keung, an engineer with the Department of Mechanical Engineering at Hong Kong Polytechnic University, said that a fully charged lithium battery could explode in a serious crash.

“The crash could result in a short circuit, which, in turn, could make the battery hot and eventually explode within a matter of seconds,” Lo said. “This is the major hidden danger of electric cars that doesn’t exist in vehicles that consume petrol.”

Funny, all those years of watching Hollywood explode cars... nEVer realized they were using Li packs and not petrol...

 

[Lessss]

Not to mention the batteries in gas cars.

 

[liveforphysics]

It runs large format prismatic LiFePO4, like ThunderSags if anyone was curious. (unless they changed something from the last picture of it's battery I saw)

 

[SamTexas]

Lo Kok-keung, an engineer with the Department of Mechanical Engineering at Hong Kong Polytechnic University, said that a fully charged lithium battery could explode in a serious crash.

“The crash could result in a short circuit, which, in turn, could make the battery hot and eventually explode within a matter of seconds,” Lo said. “This is the major hidden danger of electric cars that doesn’t exist in vehicles that consume petrol.”

Lo Kok-keung? I have to memorize his name. And he's an engineer too! They didn't say which displicine though. Must be a sanitary engineer that just happens to work at HK Polytechnic.

 

[flathill]

looks intense

now you know why Chevron bought Ovonics
I toured the factory back in college

nimh: Much safer than Lithium based cells in case of an accident or abuse due to the use of more benign active chemicals, a particularly important property in high power and automotive applications (read non-flammable non-explosive KOH electrolyte)

and much better calendar life: Some testing reported by Southern California Edison on NiMH batteries originally designed
for electric vehicle applications extrapolated their potential usable life of over 25 years at 35°C

NiMH – Cold Temperature Performance to -30°C
We advanced the technology by improving the performance at higher temperatures up to
85°C with our new GreenLife nickel hydroxide material.

Consumer Reports “10 year-old Prius still outperforms”

NiMH battery pack showed no signs of degradation after 10 years of use

there is no spot price for lithium but it costs about 3-400USD per pound vs 7USD per pound of nickel

That means there's over 3000USD worth of lithium in the Telsa Roadster pack if you assume each cell has 0.6g

 

[TylerDurden]

now you know why Chevron bought Ovonics...

Or maybe they decided to suppress anyone from making full-on EVs.

"Members of the USABC, including General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, threatened to take legal action against Ovshinsky if he continued to promote NiMH's potential for use in BEVs, and if he continued to lend test batteries to Solectria, a start-up electric vehicle maker that was not part of the USABC. The Big Three car companies argued that his behavior violated their exclusive rights to the battery technology, because they had matched a federal government grant given to Ovonics to develop NiMH technology. Critics argue that the Big Three were more interested in convincing CARB members that electric vehicles were not technologically and commercially viable."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries#General_Motors_and_the_US_Auto_Battery_Consortium

 

[flathill]

We had the 90Ah 12HEV90 and while they didn't have the highest energy density it was already enough (and it was in a steel case already)



The Solectria Sunrise went 217miles at 65mph in 1996

you gotta be a sucka if you believe Chevron's actions weren't nefarious



they "sucked" relative to lithium but were good enough and cheap and safe and

most importantly can't be bricked
------------
FLATLINE YOUR BATTERIES

Many racers discharge their Ni-MH packs to 0 volts for storage as this has been thought to increase performance in both older and newer cells. Novak’s new FLATLINE Dead Short Battery Storage Tray was designed for racers looking to deep discharge, or completely discharge (or dead short) their battery packs.


In October 2009, ECD Ovonics announced that their next-generation NiMH batteries will provide specific energy and power that are comparable to those of lithium-ion batteries at a cost that is significantly lower than the cost of lithium-ion batteries.

The next gen batt was going to go into the mercedes but germany's basf and chevron put a stop to that
Funny how basf is the largest chem company in the world and has many cross licensing agreements with chevron
Note the ex ceo of GM general government motors stayed as ceo of ecd ovonics until he ran it into the ground (bankruptcy)
The grunch of giants

 

[Hillhater]

...you gotta be a sucka if you believe Chevron's actions weren't nefarious
.....etc etc..

?? what has that got to do with the Taxi fire ???

 

[flathill]

...you gotta be a sucka if you believe Chevron's actions weren't nefarious
.....etc etc..

?? what has that got to do with the Taxi fire ???

This can happen to any lithium pack which is why big oil isnt worried like they were when bulletproof nimh hit the market
Makes me mad I cannot buy large format (nimh doesnt like beIng paralleled) ovonics packs I used back in college on my hybrid team with frocking non explosive electrolyte
Cue x files music
A volt fire here
A fisker fire in a garage
And a nissan gtr slammed into the new tesla model s
Why is tesla the most shorted stock
Dont worry there are good guys on the other side

Anyways man
I write whatever the fcuk I want

 

[Kin]

You're also....drunk? Tesla motors is not publicly traded. Your rant didn't make sense. I think the general point that niMH is underrated could totally be relevant though. Especially with the idea that "if only it was given a chance it could have meant we'd be 30 years ahead of where we are now." I still think we'd move to lithium, though.

 

[flathill]

You're also....drunk? Tesla motors is not publicly traded. Your rant didn't make sense. I think the general point that niMH is underrated could totally be relevant though. Especially with the idea that "if only it was given a chance it could have meant we'd be 30 years ahead of where we are now." I still think we'd move to lithium, though.

Huh?
NASDAQ:TSLA

But yeah if we kept developing nimh it has theoretically higher wh/kg than lithium but more importantly it has always been equal volumetrically all long

 

[Kin]

Woah! Hey, I'm two years outdated in my thoughts; it looks they are listed. My apologizes, I was clearly wrong.

I'm not sure why you think nickel could have higher wh/kg theoretically. Granted, I know even less about the chemistry of a nickel battery than a lithium battery, but in terms of carrying charges, and oxidation-reduction capability, both nickel and lithium are only tossing around two mobile electrons. However, nickel is a much bigger atom. Do you know anywhere I can read up on nickel battery chemistry? You've piqued my curiosity here, and I'd love to learn more.

Edit: I need to think through my posts more before I post. I was in my head placing lithium where beryllium is, on the periodic table. Lithium is not carrying the same oxidation/reduction potential as nickel, it's 1/2. But, it's also probably more than 1/2 the volume of nickel.

 

[TylerDurden]

Lo Kok-keung, an engineer with the Department of Mechanical Engineering at Hong Kong Polytechnic University, said that a fully charged lithium battery could explode in a serious crash.

“The crash could result in a short circuit, which, in turn, could make the battery hot and eventually explode within a matter of seconds,” Lo said. “This is the major hidden danger of electric cars that doesn’t exist in vehicles that consume petrol.”

Chrysler Jeep Fuel-Tank Fire Probe Upgraded By U.S. NHTSA
By Angela Greiling Keane - Jun 14, 2012 10:10 AM ET
Bloomberg

As many as 5.1 million sport-utility vehicles made by Chrysler Group LLC, the carmaker run by Fiat SpA (F), will get closer scrutiny from U.S. regulators looking into about two dozen reports of fires after rear-impact crashes.

The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration upgraded a preliminary investigation of Jeep Grand Cherokees and added Jeep

Cherokee and Jeep Liberty models with fuel tanks behind the rear axle to an engineering analysis, the agency said today in a website posting.

Fires related to rear-impact crashes in the Grand Cherokees may have caused at least 15 deaths and 46 injuries, the regulator said.

Such upgrades may lead to recalls. Chrysler doesn’t know how many of the 5.1 million vehicles, some of which were made in the early 1990s, are still operating, said David Dillon, Chrysler senior manager for regulatory affairs. A recall of 5.1 million vehicles would be among the 10 largest in the U.S.

“With the number of vehicles involved and potential severity of the problem, this could set Chrysler back considerably,” Dennis Virag, president of Automotive Consulting Group in Ann Arbor, Michigan, said in a telephone interview today. “The cost to Chrysler could be considerable, and the cost in terms of reputation would be high” should the probe lead to a recall, he said.

Chrysler doesn’t think the investigation will end in a recall, Dillon said.

‘Very Confident’

“We take these matters very, very seriously,” he said in a telephone interview. “While we’re very confident that the data will prove the vehicles are not defective, nor do they present an unreasonable risk to safety, we are open to working with the agency.”

The recalls of Toyota Motor Corp. (7203) models in 2009 and 2010 over reports of unintended acceleration covered 10 million vehicles.

Chrysler declined to estimate the cost of a potential recall for the vehicles being investigated.

“Safety, not cost, is Chrysler Group’s top concern,” Eric Mayne, a company spokesman, said in an e-mail today. “We believe the vehicles are safe and that a detailed engineering analysis will bear that out.”

‘Modern-Day Pinto’

The Center for Auto Safety, a consumer advocacy group based in Washington, has urged Chrysler to better protect the vehicles’ fuel systems.

In a Sept. 1, 2011, letter to Chrysler Chief Executive Officer Sergio Marchionne, the group’s head, Clarence Ditlow, called the vehicles “a modern-day Pinto for soccer moms.”

About 1.5 million Ford Motor Co. (F) Pintos were recalled in the late 1970s because of concerns that rear-end collisions could spill gasoline and ignite fires.

NHTSA opened its probe into the Chrysler vehicles in October 2010.

Chrysler analyzed agency crash data in Grand Cherokees under investigation, along with comparable vehicles made by other manufacturers, and found no greater incidence of fire following rear-impact crashes in its vehicles, Dillon said. The company has received reports of 23 rear-impact crashes involving fires and knows of two more reported to NHTSA, he said.

The regulator said it found the opposite, that Jeep Grand Cherokees were more likely to have fuel tanks breached with subsequent fires in rear-end crashes than were General Motors Co. (GM)’s Chevrolet Blazer, Ford’s Explorer or Toyota’s 4Runner.

“The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration does not comment on open safety defect investigations,” Lynda Tran, a spokeswoman for the agency, said in an e-mail. “The agency will share the findings of the investigation upon completion of its analysis.”

NHTSA’s investigation includes model year 1993 to 2004 Grand Cherokees, model year 1993 to 2001 Cherokees, and 2002 to 2007 Liberty models. In 2005, Chrysler redesigned the vehicles, increasing the space between the front and rear axles and placing the fuel tanks there.

To contact the reporter on this story: Angela Greiling Keane in Washington at agreilingkea@bloomberg.net

 

[dnmun]

"Edit: I need to think through my posts more before I post. I was in my head placing lithium where beryllium is, on the periodic table. Lithium is not carrying the same oxidation/reduction potential as nickel, it's 1/2. But, it's also probably more than 1/2 the volume of nickel."

you do not want to be around if there is a fire involving berrylium. i think it is berrylium pentoxide which doesn't seem right, maybe Be2O3, but one of the oxides of berrylium is highly highly toxic.

do we know if this BYD was the hybrid with a gas tank or just a straight battery electic vehicle?

 

[John in CR]

Lo said. “This is the major hidden danger of electric cars that doesn’t exist in vehicles that consume petrol.”

The longer ecars are suppressed with ridiculous statements like this, the longer we have for light EVs to gain traction. They're the right answer, not just electrifying cars as we know them. BIG is just shooting themselves in the foot in the long run, so I laugh instead of getting pissed at the so obvious manipulation of public opinion.

John

 

[chopper_elec]

Lo said. “This is the major hidden danger of electric cars that doesn’t exist in vehicles that consume petrol.”

The longer ecars are suppressed with ridiculous statements like this, the longer we have for light EVs to gain traction. They're the right answer, not just electrifying cars as we know them. BIG is just shooting themselves in the foot in the long run, so I laugh instead of getting pissed at the so obvious manipulation of public opinion.

John

Yeah your not wrong there. Luckily petrol isn't flamable, I feel so much better knowing that hahaha.

I think the Alcohol was more dangerous in this case, I think the real question is "If the Driver of the Nissan GTR didn't end up hitting the taxi, would the passengers have died"

Everything has a danger to it, if they assume its hidden then how daft do they think people are? Short circuit an AA battery in a kids toy and you could have a fire if you really wanted. I remember since my first memory of a battery, I knew there was potential for fires if mistreated. Why BIG assumes anything has changed makes me wonder.

Think of it like this, in raw form fire is dangerous. Now with development we have introduced handheld cigarette lighters which produce fire at the flick of a switch which is also more condensed now. Put through the right conditions the cig lighter could produce an even bigger explosion.

 

[dnmun]

By Chris Oliver

HONG KONG (MarketWatch) -- Hong Kong is considering tightening standards on electric vehicles that could affect plans by BYD Co. to ship up to 45 of its e6 electric vehicles to the city, the same model that exploded following a collision in Shenzhen last month, killing all three occupants, according to a Friday report in the South China Morning Post. The mainland-China based BYD is likely to be urged to improve protective wrapping around the battery even though a report expected to be released later this month is likely to rule out the current requirement on battery casings as a cause of the explosion. A Hong Kong team comprising government experts from the transport, engineering and environment agencies will hold their first meeting Friday to review the standards, the report said. In contrast to the sizeable advance for the Hang Seng Index, BYD's shares were weaker in late morning trade, falling 0.9%.