To EV owners: Help MIT to design a better EV chargingstation

[steccc]

Dear electric vehicle owners,

We are a team of MIT students working on electric vehicle charging station design. We want to conduct a user interview to know more about what people experiences are and how can we do to improve the design of the charger or charging station. Since we didn't know too many electric vehicle owners, we would like your input on this short survey to help us design a better charging experience for the incoming electric vehicle era. We are also working with Design Corporate Foundation on reinvent the gas station for today's economy and to address climate change. You can check from the link below. Thank you for your precious input.

http://www.cdf.org/conferences/service_innovation_by_design.html

Please direct your answer to
Chih-Chao Chuang: steccc@media.mit.edu


QUESTIONS

What kind of electric vehicle do you have?

Is this vehicle for commuting or leisure purpose?

What is the range of your daily commute?

What is the battery capacity of your vehicle?

How often do you charge your, for how long, and to what degree?

How long does it take to charge your car to full capacity?

Where do you often charge your car? Where is the second often place?

What voltage do you charge you car at? (standard wall outlet or something bigger)

What are your concerns about charging your car?

Do you prefer your own cord, or use a "public cord" attached to the charger?

What do you like or dislike about chargers that you have seen or used?

What is your best charging experience if any?

What is your worst charging experience if any?

What kind of charging experience or interface do you think will slow the electric vehicle adapting rate?

 

[paultrafalgar]

I'll risk saying this although it's blantantly obvious: we need a world-wide standard plug design for charging EVs; the idea of zillions of different propriety designs is a nightmare. Let's avoid the old VHS-Blueray debacle. The voltage/charge rate is going to have to be sensed automatically by the charger - maybe the plug can be intelligent and tell the charger what it wants? There will have to be two plug types: one for home charging (230 volts) and one for fast charging (?). Just my 2 pence worth.

 

[evblazer]

I really like my old avcon I had on all my ev's before I sold them off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772
"Adoption
SAE J1772 was adopted on January 14, 2010 by the SAE Motor Vehicle Council.[4] The companies participating in or supporting the revised -2009 standard include GM, Chrysler, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Tesla.
"
If they really go with a standard plug that will be a HUGE leap forward especially if they avoid scrapping all of the vehicles and then coming up with a new standard and knocking all the charging stations a few years later.
Of course IEC 62196-1 ed1.0 is a competitor to that already and probably others oy..

 

[Lessss]

I think someone from MIT would be smart enough to not cross post through a dozen topics thus spamming the BBS.
Open source open source open source. This patented priority crap is bringing technological development and advancement to a grinding halt.
Any charge station must allow dial in settings. Type of battery chemistry, slow charge or fast charge(amps), Voltage of battery pack.

QUESTIONS

What kind of electric vehicle do you have?
- - should be irrelevant to the charging station

Is this vehicle for commuting or leisure purpose?
- - should be irrelevant to the charging station

What is the range of your daily commute?
- - should be irrelevant to the charging station

What is the battery capacity of your vehicle?
- - should be irrelevant to the charging station

How often do you charge your, for how long, and to what degree?
- - should be irrelevant to the charging station

How long does it take to charge your car to full capacity?
- - should be irrelevant to the charging station

Where do you often charge your car? Where is the second often place?
- - should be irrelevant to the charging station

What voltage do you charge you car at? (standard wall outlet or something bigger)
- - should be irrelevant to the charging station

What are your concerns about charging your car?
- - should be irrelevant to the charging station

Do you prefer your own cord, or use a "public cord" attached to the charger?
- - Perhaps the only intelligent question in this survey but still the wrong question. The question should be what type of output ports should we use for you to hook up your own cable to, followed by how much should we charge for the cables that can hook up to your vehicle if you didn't bring one.

What do you like or dislike about chargers that you have seen or used?
- - They are cheap Chinese electronics that blow up with the slightest power surge from our dilapidated NA power grid.

What is your best charging experience if any?
- - should be irrelevant to the charging station

What is your worst charging experience if any?
- - - Well obviously the destruction of the vehicle by fire due to ............

What kind of charging experience or interface do you think will slow the electric vehicle adapting rate?
- - KISS

 

[dogman dan]

I agree with that. Some charging stations are being built in El Paso, and they look like there is no reg 110 or 220 outlet to charge smaller EV's. May as well just call em Chevy Volt only charging stations. May as well put em only in the reserved parking for the guys that make 1/4 mil a year.

 

[Lock]

haha... good one Lessss... I emailed `em:

QUESTIONS
>What kind of electric vehicle do you have?
Hybrid human-electric foot bike

>Is this vehicle for commuting or leisure purpose?
Both... Turns commuting into entertainment.

>What is the range of your daily commute?
20kms one way

>What is the battery capacity of your vehicle?
240Wh

>How often do you charge your, for how long, and to what degree?
Vehicle is always plugged in when not in use. Also, opportunity charging for commutes and at work, friends etc...

>How long does it take to charge your car to full capacity?
Not a car. Depends on Amp rating of charger and depth of discharge.
Max. 4hrs on 2A charger from 80% DOD

>Where do you often charge your car? Where is the second often place?
Not a car. Home, client offices and bar/restautant patios

>What voltage do you charge you car at? (standard wall outlet or something bigger)
120VAC

>What are your concerns about charging your car?
Not a car. Does the outlet have power.

>Do you prefer your own cord, or use a "public cord" attached to the charger?
Own.

>What do you like or dislike about chargers that you have seen or used?
The 2A charger is the size of a deck of cards so fits in my pocket.

>What is your best charging experience if any?
Too numerous to mention.

>What is your worst charging experience if any?
None have been truly "bad"...

>What kind of charging experience or interface do you think will slow the electric vehicle adapting rate?
Too large vehicles (packs) limited to 20A outlets for recharging. Too large vehicles (packs) that cannot be hot-swapped easily.

Inability to adapt to technology. Fear, ignorance and unrealistic expectations.

Cheers
Lock
(Driving lead for ten years now... This year, 480Wh of LiFePO4 will change my life)

 

[paultrafalgar]

How about getting IEEE in on the act of designing plugs - lot of know-how there.

 

[dnmun]

i disagree about going to some new type of plug that is 'universal'.

i use the standard duplex outlets with the ground hole for 240V. i also can split the 240 into two separate 120V phases by breaking the link on the hot side and using the ground for common and the two phase wires on each hot side of the two plugs in the duplex outlet. this is illegal by code in the US, but i think it is legal in canada and most everywhere else in the world where guvment regulations have not completely ruined everything. i consider each box to be a 'subjunction' box, in order to meet code.

if someone needs a special plug for their EV, then they can make a jumper to mate their plug to the standard duplex outlet. then people won't have to pay $25 for specialized plug useful to only one type of vehicle, and i see no reason why the charging plug on all the EVs could not just be the standard three prong, and if people are too stupid, then they need to get educated as to not plugging in when it doesn't match their voltage. and then let people carry their own jumper with their charger or swap out their idiot designed plugs.

ie, force people to think and read and not stupidly follow guvment code enforced protections from mental inadequacy. all imho

 

[paultrafalgar]

If you put "standard plug for ev charging" into Google you get 921,000 hits.The third one is this:
SAE approves connector standard for EV charging
http://www.examiner.com/x-3721-Detroit-Automotive-Technology-Examiner~y2010m3d20-SAE-approves-connector-standard-for-EV-charging

 

[spinningmagnets]

I remember the first time I bought a computer with USB ports. The previous computer had a specific plug for the mouse, another for the keyboard, and a couple for a printer (depending on which kind of printer you had).

Now? I can unplug my printer/mouse/keyboard/external drive into any USB every time I set it up in a different room...and it doesn't matter which socket I plug it into. It doesnt matter that I rarely reconfigure my periferal accessories (when moving?), I like it, and I will pay to get that.

I don't think anyone will mind each charging station having two sockets with one being for 220-240V, and the other being 110-120-ish. There needs to be a way for the charging station to sense the battery type (SLA, NiCD, NiMH, 3 different types of lithium including LiPo). The problem is that each chemistry has a different optimum charging profile, including adjusting the charge rate to the sensed state of charge (SOC).

I'm not very technical, I onced tried to fix a computer with a sledgehammer, and it only made it worse. The problem is that we need millions of NON-technical people to WANT to buy some kind of EV. I like my TiVo, very user-friendly to get it to record all the episodes of my favorite shows. I NEVER once programmed any one of the dozen VCRs I've owned. I would put in a tape and record 6 hours of the channel that had the show I wanted.

 

[FeralDog]

We want to conduct a user interview to know more about what people experiences are and how can we do to improve the design

MIT?
Graduate level, or high school students?
Where did these "students" learn grammar?
I agree with Lessss, "they" {alias: Chih-Chao Chuang} are spamming BBS to harvest something. IF it is information on EV charging stations , it is a piss-poor survey.
I suspect it is, at best, a 101 level class statistical assignment for one student.
Answering the questions is an exercise in futility. A waste of time. Or will put your email on a chump list ... :wink:

Dear electric vehicle owners,
We are team of glorious super smart NASA scientist from Nigeria working on electric vehicle charging station design. We want you to send us treemendous dollars to further our research. We soon be much successful. We will send you 3 million dollars if you can help us move the large profits to an American bank . Please now, answer survey. Send your email address, we will contact you so-so soon.
Yours so truly,
Quamba Singto
CEO & Minister Of EV Research and Sustainable Dung Output,
491 Lagos, Nigeria

 

[paultrafalgar]

As I said above: "maybe the plug can be intelligent and tell the charger what it wants? ". A plug that you carry with you to charge can include firmware that the charging station reads and adapts its regime to suit. Equally, the car socket could include that intelligence if you use the lead attached to the charging station. This is not rocket science, but we definitely need standards for it work seemlessly. As you say, Spinningmagnets, USB does it, so why not Charging Station connectors.

 

[dnmun]

there is no need for the plug to be intelligent, or different for different batteries or vehicles. i think they should all be 240V AC single phase and the outlets should be the standard duplex outlets rated to 250V, costing 30 cents each, not 30 dollars.

if people wanna increase the current capacity then they can make a jumper with 2 parallel plugs and plug them into adjacent plugs on the duplex outlet to increase the current capacity to get up to 40 amps at 240V, that's 10kW. then put the charger for the vehicle on the other end.

if you wanna fund an EV charging spot, please DONATE to my current project to build a neighborhood EV charging spot. gonna run 240V out to 4 separate duplex outlets adjacent to my new driveway apron so people can stop and charge, anytime, or even maybe eventually set up a spot for everyone in the neighborhood who has an EV to be able to park it and charge it without the $10-20k it will cost them if they have to go through guvment building dept ripoff artists.

no nigerians here, just an old redneck and somma them 'illegal aliens' and my now complete collection of concrete tools, this will be my most difficult concrete project ever. i am gonna run the romex under the rebar out from the house to the sides of the apron and mount the outlets on a curb i will build along the sides of the apron. maybe i will make a thread on it, gonna arrange with the excavator to come thursday as soon as the last of the girls moves out. man this is gonna be hard.

your money will go to a good home. pm me for my paypal address, any amount contributed will be recognized and recorded. you also can charge here for free, anytime.

 

[AndyH]

What if we had a pole with a credit card or key card slot (maybe a keypad for a passcode) and a door. Inside the door is a 110V 15 or 20A outlet, a 220/30 or 50A outlet, and a pull-out J1772 on a wire reel. Maybe use a keypad/pin number along with an internet-enabled charge station to track billing. Kinda like the 'redbox DVD rental' version of the charge kiosk?

(well said, Lessss!)

 

[Lock]

Watts all this tapping about charging plugs... I just want a dispensing machine... Slide the discharged pack into the slot and it spits out a freshly charged replacement pack... Youz guyz can stand around watching yer vehicles charging, or the grass growing... clouds sliding by...
:lol:
Lock

 

[dnmun]

if you read the regular emailbot from evchargernews.com you will see that people often talk about the nearby shops or wifi nodes so people can actually do something while they are charging. also you meet the nicest people at a charge spot.

that's what i am counting on anyways.

 

[LOWRACER]

Dear electric vehicle owners,

http://www.cdf.org/conferences/service_innovation_by_design.html

Please direct your answer to
Chih-Chao Chuang: steccc@media.mit.edu

QUESTIONS

What kind of electric vehicle do you have?
LowRacer Hybrid Speedbike - selfmade tilting recumbent trike
Is this vehicle for commuting or leisure purpose?
It's for commuting AND leisure purpose.
What is the range of your daily commute?
It's different.
What is the battery capacity of your vehicle?
LiPO 37V/24Ah/36C in combination with 150Farad SuperCaps.
IN PROGRESS, LiPO battery 44.4V/50Ah/78C combined with SuperCaps
How often do you charge your, for how long, and to what degree?
Usually I don't need to charge, because I am the charger, muscle-pedal-alternator. Only in lazy days I must charge via power supply socket.
How long does it take to charge your car to full capacity?
About 8hours in economical mode.
Where do you often charge your car? Where is the second often place?
Usually I don't need.
What voltage do you charge you car at? (standard wall outlet or something bigger)
230V european standart wall power socket.
What are your concerns about charging your car?
?????
Do you prefer your own cord, or use a "public cord" attached to the charger?
The charger is build in the vehicle.
What do you like or dislike about chargers that you have seen or used?
A charger with a toroidal transformer with no electronics is my favorite.
A switching power supply charger burned 2 times down.
What is your best charging experience if any?
---
What is your worst charging experience if any?
---
What kind of charging experience or interface do you think will slow the electric vehicle adapting rate?
The battery in combination with suppressor diodes and SuperCaps high capacitively coupled, is nearly self-adapting.

 

[paultrafalgar]

Oh and how is this super intelligent dispensing machine going to know that what you just put in it in exchange for a new one is not an empty cardboard box made the same size as your replacement pack?

 

[tostino]

Watts all this tapping about charging plugs... I just want a dispensing machine... Slide the discharged pack into the slot and it spits out a freshly charged replacement pack... Youz guyz can stand around watching yer vehicles charging, or the grass growing... clouds sliding by...
:lol:
Lock

By the time any of this is actually in place, batteries should easily be capable of 5-10c charges. If they design stations not capable of that power output, it will be a real shame.

I will happily wait my 12-6 min for a full charge. I actually hate the idea of pack swapping.

 

[Mudder]

What kind of electric vehicle do you have?
BMC V3 Surly Big Dummy
Is this vehicle for commuting or leisure purpose?
both
What is the range of your daily commute?
Bike range=80 miles, daily commute is 16 miles
What is the battery capacity of your vehicle?
1.5KWh
How often do you charge your, for how long, and to what degree?
whenever I'm home. 1-12 hours, depending on whether or not I'm balancing or bulking.
How long does it take to charge your car to full capacity?
Bulk: 1 hour (56 volt charger at 24 A, no BMS). 24 hours (28 volt charger at 2A, batteries in parallel). I BMS charge about once a month unless I notice unbalanced cells.
Where do you often charge your car? Where is the second often place?
home has bulk charger, which weighs a bunch. BMS is only 1 pound so I can bring it to work and charge all day if I'm headin out of town.
What voltage do you charge you car at? (standard wall outlet or something bigger)
use a standard wall outlet; 56 volts for bulk, 28 volts for BMS
What are your concerns about charging your car?
Dead cells causing false readings
Do you prefer your own cord, or use a "public cord" attached to the charger?
own cord
What do you like or dislike about chargers that you have seen or used?
they're either crappy or terribly expensive. I'd like to see a decent BMS that can charge 16s, 8s, etc.
What is your best charging experience if any?
don't understand.
What is your worst charging experience if any?
battery failed and ended up melting down. Bulk charger won't catch this.
What kind of charging experience or interface do you think will slow the electric vehicle adapting rate?

 

[AndyH]

What if we had a pole with a credit card or key card slot (maybe a keypad for a passcode) and a door. Inside the door is a 110V 15 or 20A outlet, a 220/30 or 50A outlet, and a pull-out J1772 on a wire reel. Maybe use a keypad/pin number along with an internet-enabled charge station to track billing. Kinda like the 'redbox DVD rental' version of the charge kiosk?

gack...Google to the rescue... From 2008: http://green.autoblog.com/2008/07/22/coulomb-technologies-announces-smartlet-public-charging-statio/

"At the Plug-In 2008 conference in San Jose CA Coulomb Technologies has announced its new Smartlet charging stations and ChargePoint network system. The plan is for the company to sell the Smartlet stations to municipal governments and parking lot owners and then provide the ChargePoint network to provide a subscription based public charging system for consumers. The Smartlets are equipped with electrical metering and wireless communications capabilities. Drivers would get a subscription through ChargePoint and then when they park their plug-in vehicles, the Smartlet would authenticate and then allow them to start charging. Parking lot owners and cities would take a cut of the revenue while a car is being charged."

 

[AndyH]

http://www.coulombtech.com/blog/uncategorized/level-iii-fast-charging-stations-announced/

http://www.coulombtech.com/files/na-ChargePoint-specs-0809.pdf

The Coulomb CT2000 has level 1 (110V/16A) and level 2 (240V/30A) on one unit.

Cool! Web-enabled - check out the website and see locations and availability!