spinningmagnets
100 TW
Lebowski, you sound like you understand this sorcery. If someone wanted a sine-wave controller, what would you recommend?
Torque-Sensor Motor w/ Sine-Wave Controller Build
- Thread starter WhatcomRider
- Start date
Kingfish
100 MW
^+1 Yeah, what he said :wink:
I've enjoyed both Bertie & Lebowski developments thinking that might be the path forward.
~KF
I've enjoyed both Bertie & Lebowski developments thinking that might be the path forward.
~KF
spinningmagnets
100 TW
Found this one in another thread, $86 shipping included...I just may have to try one of these:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ebike-sine-wave-controller/323339_694493303.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ebike-sine-wave-controller/323339_694493303.html
Kingfish
100 MW
Saw that, partly liked it. My nits: Lite duty and not as feature rich as our common controllers.spinningmagnets said:Found this one in another thread, $86 shipping included...I just may have to try one of these:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ebike-sine-wave-controller/323339_694493303.html
Give us better brains. Womens have them (so I'm told); why cain'ts we and our controllers have'm? :|
As HAL 9000 said: "It's puzzling..."
~KF
WhatcomRider
100 W
That is the same controller I have except mine is customized for the integrated torque-sensor motor (see first post of this thread). It is a good controller, but you may need to buy the LCD display to go with it. I would advise emailing the store manager for more information - yonggang.lu@minshine.cn. Also, you may be able to negotiate the shipping costs down.spinningmagnets said:Found this one in another thread, $86 shipping included...I just may have to try one of these:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ebike-sine-wave-controller/323339_694493303.html
Nanoha
100 W
Yep, that's what I'm running. They modified it to work with throttle only.
Just curious Whatcomrider, have you tried auto hall detection?
Just curious Whatcomrider, have you tried auto hall detection?
WhatcomRider
100 W
Nanoha, as far as I can tell my display unit works a bit differently because of the torque sensor and does not offer auto hall detection as an option. I am curious to know which motor is paired with your controller and if are you satisfied with the combination.Nanoha said:
I am disappointed with the XOFO torque-sensor motor. It appears to be well constructed except for the quality of the cable that goes through the axle. This week my second replacement motor failed at the top of a 300 foot hill climb. Checking with a multimeter I discovered that the Hall ground wire shorted with the phase wires. It seems that the plastic insulation on the wires is not durable enough to handle the heat generated by the modest amount of current that the controller puts out, around 14 amps max. In contrast the Heinzmann motor on my Europa withstands crazy amounts of heat generation during long hill climbs without failure.
dnmun
1 PW
maybe you can upgrade the wires with larger cable so it doesn't get so hot and replace the halls and try again. it would be interesting to see the insides.
WhatcomRider
100 W
I would if I could but am limited by the fact that there are a total of 10 wires running through the axle - yikes. I think my best bet is to find some wire with higher grade insulation. There are some detailed pics of the insides of the motor on page 1 of this thread that you may find interesting.dnmun said:
dnmun
1 PW
two hall sensor leads on that torque sensor. so these are ratiometric hall sensors like the throttles use and the controller may be watching the difference in voltage between the two sensors as the magnet on that plate moves as the pressure rotates it against the springs. so the hall sensor voltages will change as the magnet that creates the current through the hall sensor changes position with respect to each of them.
so it shares the ground and power with the halls sensors on the motor. otherwise it would be 12 wires instead of 10. yep this is a problem.
so it shares the ground and power with the halls sensors on the motor. otherwise it would be 12 wires instead of 10. yep this is a problem.
patpatbut
10 W
Hi all.
I have a torque simulation sine wave controller from BMS
http://www.bmsbattery.com/controller/546-s06-250w-imitation-torque-square-wave-controller.html
I try to run this using sensorless motor (only three phrases wire are connected) but it does not work.
Does anyone know do I need to do anything to run this controller in sensorless mode?
Thanks
Pat
I have a torque simulation sine wave controller from BMS
http://www.bmsbattery.com/controller/546-s06-250w-imitation-torque-square-wave-controller.html
I try to run this using sensorless motor (only three phrases wire are connected) but it does not work.
Does anyone know do I need to do anything to run this controller in sensorless mode?
Thanks
Pat
Nanoha
100 W
It needs halls to start up the motor. Once it reaches a certain speed, it goes into sensorless mode.
patpatbut
10 W
Nanoha said:
Hi Nanoha,
My motor only has three phases wire. Any chance I can simulate the hall signal without the hall connection?
Thanks
Pat
fabiograssi
100 W
Did you try pedal first until reach something like 8 or 10 km/h and hit the throttle after that?
patpatbut
10 W
fabiograssi said:
no I have not tried that. I did a test connection only.
controller +LCD panel + throttle + Motor + battery
For this setup it works fine for KU65 but not the sine wave controller.
Does this controller need PAS to trigger the throttle?
Pat
fabiograssi
100 W
"Normally", sensorless controllers are "pedal first". I don't know how the ku65 starts the motor without initial movement!
Fabio
Fabio
WhatcomRider
100 W
Pat, I highly doubt that the BMS S06S controller can be made to work on a motor without Hall sensors. Once you do install a motor with Hall sensors: if your LCD panel has the option of setting assist mode 6 it will work throttle only. In the other modes the throttle is inactive, and you will need to use a PAS to control the motor speed.patpatbut said:
BTW, Welcome to the Sphere!
Robert
Nanoha
100 W
patpatbut said:
If you're running an internal gear hub with a freewheel then you're totally out of luck.
The motor has to be spinning first.
patpatbut
10 W
fabiograssi said:
KU65 can start the motor without initial movement. Just throttle and go!
patpatbut
10 W
WhatcomRider said:
hi Robert,
In that case, does this mean this controller would not work with throttle and PAS together?
btw nice to meet you too. Good to know this web site with so many experts here
Pat
patpatbut
10 W
Nanoha said:
My motor is a front motor SWXB. If I pedal to spin the motor, would that work?
Pat
Nanoha
100 W
No, your motor has a freewheel inside. The spinning thing is the hub shell.
I'm running a direct drive so it starts up silky smooth even with a normal controller.
With the sine wave it also becomes silent.
I'm running a direct drive so it starts up silky smooth even with a normal controller.
With the sine wave it also becomes silent.
WhatcomRider
100 W
I believe that is correct, Pat. I know that with my controller/display combo, which is made by the same manufacturer, the throttle and PAS do not work together.patpatbut said:
I see that BMS Battery has a 250W sine-wave controller, model S06P, that runs in sensorless mode. It should work with your motor.
crossbreak
1 MW
model S06P is sensorless but not square wave. It is almost as load as the normal KU63-65 controller from BMS battery.
I have the "S-LCD" with the S06P which is produced by su zhou kunteng electronics http://www.szktdz.com/download/index.php
These controllers are not really sensorless, too, they use an adapter inside the controller, that emulates Hall sensors. This adapter could be used with the sine wave version too I guess. The MCU is a CR8F612X 8bit one from ST. It uses one as the "brain" and one on the hall sensor emulator board. Guess they got a better price when they took 2 per controller
Max E-RPM wasn't tested yet. But I have porblems with the PAS behavior:
It accelerates sometime, sometimes not. A speed limit can be setup, but has no effect at all. It accelerates at 30kph, even if I set speed limit to 10kph. Battery gauge and ODO work fine. I use 12s Lipo (50V max) which may be a bit too much for the 36V rated controller.
Ordered 5, did test one yet, maybe this one is just broken. Nice product if it would work
I'll have to get hands on the xofo torque sensors, seems they are quite nice, thx for posting. Adding a torque sensor to a hub is just too obvious
If this wont work i'll open a new thread... guess you didnt use PAS since you have a torque sensor. How is it connected to the controller? Do you have some wireing scheme? That would be highly appreciated! I searched a lot for a controller with torque signal input, sdaly there are only ones with 1.5kW and more. I'd like a 6-Fet with current mode/ torque mode throttle input to connect a torque sensor to it, sadly I can't find ANY. If these can do so, it would solve many problems of many people!
I have the "S-LCD" with the S06P which is produced by su zhou kunteng electronics http://www.szktdz.com/download/index.php
These controllers are not really sensorless, too, they use an adapter inside the controller, that emulates Hall sensors. This adapter could be used with the sine wave version too I guess. The MCU is a CR8F612X 8bit one from ST. It uses one as the "brain" and one on the hall sensor emulator board. Guess they got a better price when they took 2 per controller
Max E-RPM wasn't tested yet. But I have porblems with the PAS behavior:
It accelerates sometime, sometimes not. A speed limit can be setup, but has no effect at all. It accelerates at 30kph, even if I set speed limit to 10kph. Battery gauge and ODO work fine. I use 12s Lipo (50V max) which may be a bit too much for the 36V rated controller.
Ordered 5, did test one yet, maybe this one is just broken. Nice product if it would work
I'll have to get hands on the xofo torque sensors, seems they are quite nice, thx for posting. Adding a torque sensor to a hub is just too obvious If this wont work i'll open a new thread... guess you didnt use PAS since you have a torque sensor. How is it connected to the controller? Do you have some wireing scheme? That would be highly appreciated! I searched a lot for a controller with torque signal input, sdaly there are only ones with 1.5kW and more. I'd like a 6-Fet with current mode/ torque mode throttle input to connect a torque sensor to it, sadly I can't find ANY. If these can do so, it would solve many problems of many people!
WhatcomRider
100 W
crossbreak said:
Did you mean to say model S06P is not sine wave? Loudness is subjective. The only way to really tell is by hooking up 2 phase wires to a scope.
crossbreak said:
Yep, that's the same manufacturer that I have been dealing with.
crossbreak said:These controllers are not really sensorless, too, they use an adapter inside the controller, that emulates Hall sensors. This adapter could be used with the sine wave version too I guess. The MCU is a CR8F612X 8bit one from ST. It uses one as the "brain" and one on the hall sensor emulator board. Guess they got a better price when they took 2 per controller
The torque-sensor controller also uses an adapter board with a processor on it for the torque signals. It's a cost-effective way to provide different functionality with a basic controller unit. But the downside is that the torque-sensor models cannot also be sensorless.
crossbreak said:
How are you detecting wheel speed? The display has advanced settings for setting up the speed sensor. I can send you documentation on these settings if you need it.
crossbreak said:Ordered 5, did test one yet, maybe this one is just broken. Nice product if it would work
I have had problems with the Hall sensor wires shorting with the phase wires inside the motor on all 3 XOFO motors that I have tried. The vendor said that this problem has been fixed, but if you get one I would recommend checking the wiring inside.
crossbreak said:
The system I have uses both a torque sensor and a PAS which are hooked up to the controller. You can view the wiring scheme at http://www.aliexpress.com/store/323339 under one of their torque-sensor kit product pages.
Good luck with your projects, Crossbeak. I am interested in following your progress.
