Tronic X12 or similar high-voltage controllers?

[vladrov]

Hi, does anyone have experience or thoughts on the Tronic X12 or similar high-voltage controllers?

I can barely find any information when searching on Google.

 

[thebes]

Hi, does anyone have experience or thoughts on the Tronic X12 or similar high-voltage controllers?

Is there anything in specific youd like to know? Its better to just ask your question instead of asking to ask. Also, what other controllers are you referring to with 'similar'? Do you mean something vesc based? or just any other controller that can take something more than 20-24s?

I can barely find any information when searching on Google.

Tronic is a fairly small company and googles search results have been pretty terrible in the recent couple of years, if you have any specifics youd like to know, do post your question(s) and we'll do our best to answer!

 

[vladrov]

what other controllers are you referring to with 'similar'?

VESC-based, capable of around 27s.

If for some reason someone advises against using a VESC controller, I’m also open to other suggestions.

Is there anything in specific youd like to know?

Any information that can help me decide whether I should order the controller would be appreciated.

For example:

Thermals, build quality, purchasing and delivery experience (currently, it's out of stock and delivery is expected in September), what continuous phase current can be expected with air cooling (Tronic stated 250A for the 30s version, but with liquid cooling), general experience with Tronic, and so on.

 

[thebes]

VESC-based, capable of around 27s.

If for some reason someone advises against using a VESC controller, I’m also open to other suggestions.

You only really have a couple consumer options available for around these voltages, that would be 3shul (nice, vesc based, not too expensive for specs), kelly (good all rounder, has variable regen) sevcon (expesnive but good), fardrivers nd96 and nd108 series (nd96s would work with 27s but not with 28s as the voltage limit is 115v but you dont have to charge to 4.2vs per cell, though do note that the nd108 series is basically vapourware at this point due to production issues, am expecting to see them in the somewhat near to mid future), and of course tronic.

Thermals,

The above mentioned ones will all run perfectly fine unless youre doing somthing like pushing the max phase or battery amps for a good amount of time and even then with decent airflow it shouldnt be too much of an issue, I dont have personal experience with the tronic but since its on the smaller/more compact side I would expect youd have to take a bit more care regarding thermals though, not much of a heatsink on there or material to move the heat away from the fets, that is probably why they recommend watercooling for higher currents, as already mentioned you shouldnt really have issues with any of the other controllers if they are getting decent airflow, but that doesnt mean you couldnt stick a coldplate on there if you really wanted.

build quality,

:shrugs: no clue, its probably not terrible, again it is a very niche product and a small company, they dont seem to move many units

purchasing and delivery experience (currently, it's out of stock and delivery is expected in September),

Theyve been out of stock for a while, I was looking to order one around ~10/23 and they were out of stock with delivery expected around april, that eventually kept getting pushed back and Im unsure as to if they ever shipped that batch, to me it seems like a gamble if youll get it within the next month, or the next six months, if you get it at all :/

what continuous phase current can be expected with air cooling (Tronic stated 250A for the 30s version, but with liquid cooling)

I dont believe they list the phase current anywhere, the ~250-300 amps they list is I believe bA, taking a look at the fet datasheets and taking a guessitmate with the max lowside shunt current I would guess that its probably around 500 to 600 on the high side, I really wouldnt push it further.

general experience with Tronic, and so on.

Frankly Ive never even seen anyone actually pushing the x12 to anywhere near its stated limits, they mostly seem to be used in one wheels and scooters where theyre often limited by the battery, and tronic never replied to my email inquiring about some specifics.

If you want my two cents I would not recommend that you be the guinea pig for some still what is imo a experimental low production volume unit with basically no userbase.

I would recommend something from either fardriver, kelly, 3shul or sevcon (if you have the budget ) can say from personal experience that all four are very solid (ran a g4 550a sevcon and a kls96601 on my personal machines and played around/used/set up a nd96530 on a friends rig), and would very much recommend the 3shul cl700 for you as its based off vesc and a pretty decent controller, has held up fine so far. Also since you mentioned it in your question, there is nothing particularly wrong or bad about vesc, no reason to not use it if you have the option to, imo it is surperior to the software used by most other comerical solutions, as it is much less buggy than say fardrivers' or kellys' interfaces.

Appologies for the somewhat long, rambling post , hope you found at least some of it helpful!

 

[A-DamW]

Couple to add to the list(vesc based);

ENNOID (Canada?)
ENNOID-ESC MK8

Powervelocity Nextgen(California)
24F NextGen PV Controller 144v
ES thread:
PV NextGen FOC 100-180v 36kw max - $799

Or if you really want some juice:
Masinaelectrica/joulemotors(Netherlands)
100-200kW continuous:
Joule Motors
Brushless motors, 3Phase inverters, schematics. Joulemotors.com
Youtube-iulian207

I do own a 24F NextGen PV Controller, have not hooked it up yet.

 

[thebes]

Oh yeah these,

ENNOID (Canada?)
ENNOID-ESC MK8

Didnt think to mention the ennoid since its quite low current, only 75 battery amps and theyve been having some issues with their bmses so Im not really sure if I would trust these controllers,

Powervelocity Nextgen(California)
24F NextGen PV Controller 144v
ES thread:
PV NextGen FOC 100-180v 36kw max - $799

Completely forgot these existed thanks for the reminder!

Or if you really want some juice:
Masinaelectrica/joulemotors(Netherlands)
100-200kW continuous:
Joule Motors
Brushless motors, 3Phase inverters, schematics. Joulemotors.com
Youtube-iulian207

Ohh these look pretty neat, havent come across these before!

 

[vladrov]

Appologies for the somewhat long, rambling post , hope you found at least some of it helpful!

No need to apologize, thank you for your very informative comment.

The 3shul CL350 seems to have the right size and specifications, but I'm not fully convinced about the quality of their controllers. I’ve found mixed reviews about them or perhaps my hesitation comes from the fact that they are based in India, it sounds not premium.

The other non-VESC options don’t really excite me either - they’re bulkier and look like components meant for industrial machines rather than an e-bike. Also as you mentioned, VESC offers the greatest customization potential and is reasonably priced.

I received a response from Tronic regarding the heat losses. Very fast and good customer service, by the way:

Hi,

Heat in watts from the controller is about
(200/sqrt2)²*R +switching loss
R is 0.0017/2 for the 24s and 0.0034/2 for the 30s
So 17W plus switching vs 34W plus switching.
Switching is hard to calc but probably similar to resistance losses.

*In this example, the losses are calculated for a phase current of 200A. X12 24s ans 30s versions.

 

[vladrov]

Couple to add to the list(vesc based);

ENNOID (Canada?)
ENNOID-ESC MK8

Thank you, unfortunately, it’s too weak. However, I will buy the BMS from the company.

According to my research, there isn’t a better alternative, if there is one at all, that can communicate with the VESC.