Malcolm
10 kW
Team Agni wins: http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/06/team-agni-wins-inaugural-ttxgp.html
TTXGP
- Thread starter deecanio
- Start date
voicecoils
1 MW
Winners 1st, 2nd, 3rd
(pics from starting line)
Team Agni
View attachment 12068681agni.jpg
XXL Racing
View attachment 12069175XXL.jpg
Best Buy Brammo
View attachment 12068600brammo.jpg
PHOTO CREDIT: Amadeus_iom at http://twitpic.com/photos/amadeus_iom
(pics from starting line)
Team Agni
View attachment 12068681agni.jpg
XXL Racing
View attachment 12069175XXL.jpg
Best Buy Brammo
View attachment 12068600brammo.jpg
PHOTO CREDIT: Amadeus_iom at http://twitpic.com/photos/amadeus_iom
voicecoils
1 MW
from: http://www.iomtt.com/Home/Forum/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=5&PostID=168465
There will be more interesting details to follow. Non-starters, disqualified, etc
Rob Barber, Team Agni Rider at the finish:
PHOTO CREDIT: Amadeus IOM at http://twitpic.com/photos/amadeus_iom
frodus
10 kW
thistotallyfuckinsucks.....
oh well
oh well
Any word on Electric Motorsport?
liveforphysics
100 TW
fechter said:
yep, read the bottom:
Full race results
BEST BUY PRO Class
Pos 1 AGNI X01 (Rob Barber) – Time: 25:53:50 – Speed: 87.434
Pos 2 XXL Racing Team (Thomas Schoenfelder) – Time: 29:04:93 – Speed: 77.841
Pos 3 Brammo (Mark Buckley) – Time: 30:02:64 – Speed: 75.350
Pos 4 Mission Motors (Thomas Montano) – Time: 30:33:26 – Speed: 74.091
Pos 5 HTBlauva (Paul Dobbs) – Time: 36.10.63 – Speed: 62.575
Pos 6 Brunel X-team (Stephen Harper) – Time: 56:27:89 – Speed: 40.092
OPEN Class
Pos 1 Electric Motorsport (Chris Heath) – Time: 34:17:30 – Speed: 66.022
Pos 2 Barefoot Motors (Chris Petty) – Time: 36:23:06 – Speed: 62.219
Pos 3 TORK (John Crellin) – Time: 37:26:01 – Speed: 60.475
(Speed=Average speed)
The overall result of the inaugural TTXGP, as recorded by time keepers, has been confirmed by the Race Management team from ACU Events Ltd. Two riders, Chris Heath (Electric Motorsport) and Paul Dobbs (HTBlauva), who were originally disqualified, were unaware that they were required to sound horns while racing under yellow flags and the overall result was not in any way influenced by their actions.
paultrafalgar
10 kW
I OCRd that spreadsheet photo of results and here are the spreadsheets in .xls and .ods format. Hope I've corrected all the OCR errors!
View attachment TTXGP.ods
View attachment TTXGP.xls
View attachment TTXGP.ods
View attachment TTXGP.xls
frodus
10 kW
EMS was disqualified at first, the reinstated:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sp...?&R=EPI-115763
"Fifth overall, Chris Heath clinched the open class by 35.75s on the Electric Motorsport entry when Chris Petty coasted over the line on his Barefoot Motors machine. John Crellin completed the top three.
But Heath was disqualified from the Open class before the podium ceremony, which promoted Petty back to the class winner with Crellin second."
"The overall result of the inaugural TTXGP, as recorded by time keepers, has been confirmed by the Race Management team from ACU Events Ltd. Two riders, Chris Heath (Electric Motorsport) and Paul Dobbs (HTBlauva), who were originally disqualified, were unaware that they were required to sound horns while racing under yellow flags and the overall result was not in any way influenced by their actions."
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sp...?&R=EPI-115763
"Fifth overall, Chris Heath clinched the open class by 35.75s on the Electric Motorsport entry when Chris Petty coasted over the line on his Barefoot Motors machine. John Crellin completed the top three.
But Heath was disqualified from the Open class before the podium ceremony, which promoted Petty back to the class winner with Crellin second."
"The overall result of the inaugural TTXGP, as recorded by time keepers, has been confirmed by the Race Management team from ACU Events Ltd. Two riders, Chris Heath (Electric Motorsport) and Paul Dobbs (HTBlauva), who were originally disqualified, were unaware that they were required to sound horns while racing under yellow flags and the overall result was not in any way influenced by their actions."
Lapwing
100 W
Is it time to analyze what Cedric Lynch did right?
Light weight production bike, well sorted, and prfered by the rider.
The motors Twin Agni's model unknown (large frame size=probably model 143 series)
The controller: Unknown
The battery 3P 21S Kokam 70Ah high performace.
So motor efficiency: better than 90 percent over a huge portion of it's rev range.
http://www.agnimotors.com/143_Series_Performance_Graphs.pdf
Cooling: Both motors hanging out there in the breeze like a BMW R series, tied together with shaft. Fairing is actually accelerating the airflow over the motors, so good heat control for the motor.
Controller low down very close between both motors, and right in the airflow. Short fat cable runs. Probably running motor currents in paralell given the Voltage/battery info we know.
Battery: proven high energy density, higher voltage, compact and fexible format.
http://www.kokam.com/english/product/battery_main.html
We could all learn from this, for sure. Form will follow function.
PS wel done to team Brammo, for an equally excellent performace.
Light weight production bike, well sorted, and prfered by the rider.
The motors Twin Agni's model unknown (large frame size=probably model 143 series)
The controller: Unknown
The battery 3P 21S Kokam 70Ah high performace.
So motor efficiency: better than 90 percent over a huge portion of it's rev range.
http://www.agnimotors.com/143_Series_Performance_Graphs.pdf
Cooling: Both motors hanging out there in the breeze like a BMW R series, tied together with shaft. Fairing is actually accelerating the airflow over the motors, so good heat control for the motor.
Controller low down very close between both motors, and right in the airflow. Short fat cable runs. Probably running motor currents in paralell given the Voltage/battery info we know.
Battery: proven high energy density, higher voltage, compact and fexible format.
http://www.kokam.com/english/product/battery_main.html
We could all learn from this, for sure. Form will follow function.
PS wel done to team Brammo, for an equally excellent performace.
liveforphysics
100 TW
He used a pair of brushed 95 series motors, and a single big Kelly.
His 63 cells only takes up 1.66ft^3, so he didn't have to design a bike to be a battery-pack with wheels.
At the end of the race, his cell voltage was 3.54v/cell average. This means his bike had energy to spare, while many other bikes were needing to limp along to conserve enough battery to finish a lap.
IMO, he used the K.I.S.S rule, and that always leads to the win. By keeping a very simple conversion of a proven well sorted bike that was familiar to the rider, and choosing a battery with better energy and power density with respect to weight and volume, he had huge advantages over the other bikes.
From the interview I saw, he said he spend 4 weeks of just his spare time in his "woodshed" to put this bike together. When you look at it closely, you can't help but agree.
But, being a firm form-follows-function guy, and knowing that the best looking vehicle in the race is always the vehicle in the lead, I can't help but find his work the most appealing and beautiful.
Great work Cedric!
His 63 cells only takes up 1.66ft^3, so he didn't have to design a bike to be a battery-pack with wheels.
At the end of the race, his cell voltage was 3.54v/cell average. This means his bike had energy to spare, while many other bikes were needing to limp along to conserve enough battery to finish a lap.
IMO, he used the K.I.S.S rule, and that always leads to the win. By keeping a very simple conversion of a proven well sorted bike that was familiar to the rider, and choosing a battery with better energy and power density with respect to weight and volume, he had huge advantages over the other bikes.
From the interview I saw, he said he spend 4 weeks of just his spare time in his "woodshed" to put this bike together. When you look at it closely, you can't help but agree.
But, being a firm form-follows-function guy, and knowing that the best looking vehicle in the race is always the vehicle in the lead, I can't help but find his work the most appealing and beautiful.
Great work Cedric!
Lapwing
100 W
So these little guys?
http://agnimotors.com/95_Series_Performance_Graphs.pdf
Awsome.
Now which model of Kelly controller? Need 400Amps continuous at 84V, probably pulling 600-650 peak.
http://agnimotors.com/95_Series_Performance_Graphs.pdf
Awsome.
Now which model of Kelly controller? Need 400Amps continuous at 84V, probably pulling 600-650 peak.
liveforphysics
100 TW
Likely something like this, which would let them burst over 500amps to each motor, and just connected the motors in parallel.
http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_38&products_id=66
No regen, because it's a superbike, and superbikes can only ever so softly touch that rear brake once in a while when they need to prevent a wheelie from getting too high, and for these bikes, that would never be an issue, so there would be absolutely no time which trying to slow the bike from the rear tire (regen) would be a good idea. It is always a better/faster alternative to brake later and harder into the corner with the front brake.
http://www.newkellycontroller.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_38&products_id=66
No regen, because it's a superbike, and superbikes can only ever so softly touch that rear brake once in a while when they need to prevent a wheelie from getting too high, and for these bikes, that would never be an issue, so there would be absolutely no time which trying to slow the bike from the rear tire (regen) would be a good idea. It is always a better/faster alternative to brake later and harder into the corner with the front brake.
frodus
10 kW
motoczysz had regen, so did several others, just because its a superbike doesn't mean that engine braking is ignored....
Most of the teams I talked to have regen turned on, but low....
Regen would be better with a front hub motor of sorts or magnets/coils on the wheel/rotors to generate off the wheel that gets all the braking force.
Most of the teams I talked to have regen turned on, but low....
Regen would be better with a front hub motor of sorts or magnets/coils on the wheel/rotors to generate off the wheel that gets all the braking force.
frodus
10 kW
Manx rider John Crellin dies in Senior TT
He drove the Tork motorcycle earlier in the day for the TTXGP and placed 2nd place.
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Local-rider-dies-in-Senior.5362605.jp
my condolences to the friends, family and team members.
He drove the Tork motorcycle earlier in the day for the TTXGP and placed 2nd place.
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Local-rider-dies-in-Senior.5362605.jp
my condolences to the friends, family and team members.
frodus
10 kW
some footage from the beginning of the race and the finish
http://www.ttxgp.com/index_nav.php?page=livecams
there should be more over the next couple days.
http://www.ttxgp.com/index_nav.php?page=livecams
there should be more over the next couple days.
Lock
100 MW
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/06/ttxgp/
The top finisher in the TTxGP motorcycle green grand prix left the rest of the grid in his dust, lapping the course at an average speed of 87.43 mph - almost 10 mph faster than his closest competitor.
It was no contest for Rob Barber, who was favored to win the inaugural event on the Isle of Man. He circled the winding 37.7-mile course in 25 minutes and 53 seconds on an electric motorcycle built by Team Agni. Although a gasoline-powered 600cc bike can do it in 18 minutes and change, Barber’s time was quick enough to break the Isle of Man TT 50cc record that has stood since 1966.
“The bike is absolutely brilliant to ride and to win a race here in the Isle of Man really is a dream come true,†Baber (pictured above) said, according to BBC Sport. “I can’t thank the team enough. They’ve done a superb job.â€Â
The other 12 bikes on the grid weren’t even close.
Thomas Schoenfelder of XXL Racing Team came in second in the pro class with a time of 29:04 and an average speed of 77.84. Third place went to Mark Buckley and Team Brammo Best Buy. The Enertia TTR circled the course in 30:02 while achieving an average speed of 75.35 mph.
Mission Motors took fourth with the Mission One. Rider Thomas Montana made the first run of the race and completed the circuit in 30:33. his average speed was 74.09.
Things were a little topsy-turvy in the open class, with Chris Heath taking first place on the Electric Motorsport machine. He posted a time of 34:17 and an average speed of 66.02 mph but was disqualified - and then reinstated when judges determined that he didn’t realize riders were to sound their horns while riding under a yellow flag.
His reinstatement bumped Chris Petty of Barefoot Motors to second place with a time of 36:23. Third place went to John Crellin of team Tork with a lap time of 37:26 and an average speed of 60.4 mph.
Thirteen bikes lined up for the start of the race - out of 18 teams that entered - and 10 finished the course. Our collective hat is off to Steve Harper who, exhausted but determined to finish the course aboard the Brunel University entry, crossed the line pushing the bike along with his feet. According to Isle of Man Today, it took him the better part of an hour to complete the circuit, but he did it.
The top finisher in the TTxGP motorcycle green grand prix left the rest of the grid in his dust, lapping the course at an average speed of 87.43 mph - almost 10 mph faster than his closest competitor.
It was no contest for Rob Barber, who was favored to win the inaugural event on the Isle of Man. He circled the winding 37.7-mile course in 25 minutes and 53 seconds on an electric motorcycle built by Team Agni. Although a gasoline-powered 600cc bike can do it in 18 minutes and change, Barber’s time was quick enough to break the Isle of Man TT 50cc record that has stood since 1966.
“The bike is absolutely brilliant to ride and to win a race here in the Isle of Man really is a dream come true,†Baber (pictured above) said, according to BBC Sport. “I can’t thank the team enough. They’ve done a superb job.â€Â
The other 12 bikes on the grid weren’t even close.
Thomas Schoenfelder of XXL Racing Team came in second in the pro class with a time of 29:04 and an average speed of 77.84. Third place went to Mark Buckley and Team Brammo Best Buy. The Enertia TTR circled the course in 30:02 while achieving an average speed of 75.35 mph.
Mission Motors took fourth with the Mission One. Rider Thomas Montana made the first run of the race and completed the circuit in 30:33. his average speed was 74.09.
Things were a little topsy-turvy in the open class, with Chris Heath taking first place on the Electric Motorsport machine. He posted a time of 34:17 and an average speed of 66.02 mph but was disqualified - and then reinstated when judges determined that he didn’t realize riders were to sound their horns while riding under a yellow flag.
His reinstatement bumped Chris Petty of Barefoot Motors to second place with a time of 36:23. Third place went to John Crellin of team Tork with a lap time of 37:26 and an average speed of 60.4 mph.
Thirteen bikes lined up for the start of the race - out of 18 teams that entered - and 10 finished the course. Our collective hat is off to Steve Harper who, exhausted but determined to finish the course aboard the Brunel University entry, crossed the line pushing the bike along with his feet. According to Isle of Man Today, it took him the better part of an hour to complete the circuit, but he did it.
Lock
100 MW
Awww... sorry to see this. But he died with his boots on doing something he loved... can any of us ask for better? I am reminded of Roper in 1896:frodus said:
ps... Can anyone confirm that Crellin had switched back to a gas motorcycle for the Seniors event? Note that while Roper died of a heart attack the press (NY Times) captioned the picture of Roper as "...Roper and his fatal invention."
Lapwing
100 W
frodus said:
Just watched the race. The agni bike cam view, corners, breaking, accelerating and passing fellow riders was awesome.
Very little excites me these days, but watching the Agni bike balls to the wall! Well it moved me man!
voicecoils
1 MW
liveforphysics said:
I was thinking the same thing, but...what do you reckon the voltage drop under full load would have been like towards the end of the race?
He may have been pulling the pack down to close to the cut-off limit for the cells, I'm not sure? I know you've got a lots of experience with lithium polymer, you may have some more insight on this?
ps... Can anyone confirm that Crellin had switched back to a gas motorcycle for the Seniors event? Note that while Roper died of a heart attack the press (NY Times) captioned the picture of Roper as "...Roper and his fatal invention."[/quote]
YES, he switched to a gas powered bike for the Senior event. He was a resident of the Isle of Man and a seasoned driver.
YES, he switched to a gas powered bike for the Senior event. He was a resident of the Isle of Man and a seasoned driver.
liveforphysics
100 TW
voicecoils said:
Ok, i worked the numbers.
If they pull 600amps from there pack while at 3.54v/cell, cell voltage should drop by 0.143v/cell, to give a loaded voltage of 3.397v/cell. That would still be well above LVC. This is assuming just 25degC for the batteries. It's likely that the cells were warmer than this, which would result in signifigantly lower Ri, and even less voltage sag. They finished the race with power to spare.
frodus said:
Regen is something that SEEMS like a good idea to electrical guys building a bike, who have never known what it's like to push hard on a superbike. Trying to use that rear tire to slow the bike in any situation is just going to result in taking an entirely wrong breaking line, and likely end up leaving you will less net battery power from leaving you with lower exit speeds (and hence more need for acceleration energy from the pack) from your compromised line.
From the way Team Agni's KISS approach was towards this event, I'm guessing they just asked the rider, "could you use regen braking?", he probably said, "umm, no, any back torque on the rear tire is going to ruin my ability to trail-brake setting up the corner." Then I'm guessing they decided to add 1-2 more cells to the pack to compensate, and they went on to crush the competition.
If it could be setup on the front wheel, it would be very usable, and it would be awesome.
Just because you use regen doesn't mean you have to use it at full power. I like when the bike has got a bit of engine braking. For example when going through an high speed S-curve; you are fully leaned over to one side approaching the point where you need to flip it over to the other side. I like to engine brake just before and through the flip because it makes it easier to counter steer, but doesn't upset the front as much as braking does. Moments like that may not do any useful charging though, mostly a comfort thing.
dennis
10 W
Sorry for straying from the regen discussion...since these electric bikes aren't all that fast yet, lets us pause and listen to the sweet "turbine" wine of the future...
[youtube]ojUf30Qt0ek[/youtube]
I've ridden 600cc 4 stroke sport bikes as fast as 160 mph, the noise of the reciprocating engine and transmission drowns out the "turbine" wine of the shaft spinning at 14000...unlike these sweet sounding electric "turbine" bikes with motors probably spinning at a much slower speed...these teams need to install motors that are capable of spinning at 12000rpm or more...the sound and speed will blow the crowd away...hmmm the Eliica motor... maybe next year?...[youtube]OsPyizj9heA[/youtube] :wink:
[youtube]ojUf30Qt0ek[/youtube]
I've ridden 600cc 4 stroke sport bikes as fast as 160 mph, the noise of the reciprocating engine and transmission drowns out the "turbine" wine of the shaft spinning at 14000...unlike these sweet sounding electric "turbine" bikes with motors probably spinning at a much slower speed...these teams need to install motors that are capable of spinning at 12000rpm or more...the sound and speed will blow the crowd away...hmmm the Eliica motor... maybe next year?...[youtube]OsPyizj9heA[/youtube] :wink:
Lock
100 MW
dennis said:
It's just as dramatic to see the bikes moving up to the start of the course and hearing the sound of the wind on the microphones recording the crowds conversations... the "normal" sounds of the bikes completely absent and the crowd conversations completely audible, starting about 3:00 here:
BTW the *wine* doesn't flow `til after the race... that's a sweet *whine* yer hearing as the bikes go past at speed (hehe...sorry, couldn't resist)frodus said:
tks
lOc