Using an inverter to charge from a car

[dogman dan]

I don't know how loud they are. I was about to buy one, but then I invested 80 bucks in repairing my ancient Honda 800w generator instead. I don't think it will be as loud as a chain saw or leaf blower. Generators don't rap out max rpm, but rather they just chug along at a moderate rpm. I'm sure it won't be louder than somebody next door with a 4000w genie. Which would mean you never even start yours.

Solar is a good idea. My local HF has the 45 watt panel set including 12v charge controller on sale cheaper than normal right now. Hook that to the car battery, then charge from the car? Costly compared to a generator, but green. I hadn't thought about that idea. Might still have to turn on the car a few times, but a lot less than otherwise.

Back to the generator, one reason I fixed my small one was to have two. We had some bad power problems a few years ago in an ice storm. Boy did I look like a genius that week. Only one on the block who's house had heat. I had the 800w Honda and the 3500w running all week. To me, it's a gotta have item. Even a very small one is damn handy to have. Anywhere I go, I can easily take that little Honda. The other campers don't mind, I make sure I'm miles from them!!!! Nice to have the ebike rechargeable on the outing, as well as run other things that need recharging. Jump the car with it if you have a problem with it. I've done that more than any other use with that little Honda.

At the man, having that small generator could get you free booze or food all week. Take chargers with you to recharge everything anybody has. Be the EBike phone charge guy at the burning man.

 

[VultureChow]

I don't know how loud they are. I was about to buy one, but then I invested 80 bucks in repairing my ancient Honda 800w generator instead. I don't think it will be as loud as a chain saw or leaf blower. Generators don't rap out max rpm, but rather they just chug along at a moderate rpm. I'm sure it won't be louder than somebody next door with a 4000w genie. Which would mean you never even start yours.

Solar is a good idea. My local HF has the 45 watt panel set including 12v charge controller on sale cheaper than normal right now. Hook that to the car battery, then charge from the car? Costly compared to a generator, but green. I hadn't thought about that idea. Might still have to turn on the car a few times, but a lot less than otherwise.

Back to the generator, one reason I fixed my small one was to have two. We had some bad power problems a few years ago in an ice storm. Boy did I look like a genius that week. Only one on the block who's house had heat. I had the 800w Honda and the 3500w running all week. To me, it's a gotta have item. Even a very small one is damn handy to have. Anywhere I go, I can easily take that little Honda. The other campers don't mind, I make sure I'm miles from them!!!! Nice to have the ebike rechargeable on the outing, as well as run other things that need recharging. Jump the car with it if you have a problem with it. I've done that more than any other use with that little Honda.

At the man, having that small generator could get you free booze or food all week. Take chargers with you to recharge everything anybody has. Be the EBike phone charge guy at the burning man.

There are enough people in my village with gennies that I probably don't even need one. The panel is an interesting ideal. It's more of a backup in case I feel bad about asking.

 

[Bike Xing]

Last time I went to Burningman electric and motorized bikes were not allowed. They would impound them at the entrance for the duration of the event UNLESS they were decorated nicely and registered with the DMV. Have they changed those rules?
You could always try telling them that the federal government classifies it as a "bicycle"

 

[VultureChow]

Last time I went to Burningman electric and motorized bikes were not allowed. They would impound them at the entrance for the duration of the event UNLESS they were decorated nicely and registered with the DMV. Have they changed those rules?
You could always try telling them that the federal government classifies it as a "bicycle"

Motorcycles are still banned, as are electric scooters. but pedal assist style electric bikes are allowed, and basically anything with pedals that you are not quite obviously motoring around in is fine. I pedal the whole time I'm riding, it's just nice to take some strain off.

It's coming in on a container, so there's no way they're inspecting that. If I get caught, then I'll deal with that, but as long as I don't go too fast (and I really don't) I know others who have managed with a throttle style before.

 

[fechter]

It would be nice if there was a place that rented solar panels. Business opportunity?

 

[Ykick]

It would be nice if there was a place that rented solar panels. Business opportunity?

I'm beginnng to think serious subsidies to help encourage dirt cheap panels in the first place. Then, can you imagine the "opportunities" that might ensue in order to deliver electrical transportation energy to end users?

A true 500w invertor should be plenty, if no other option. Have a great time!

 

[dogman dan]

Sounds like a generator at the party is covered then. But if you have the cash, the panels from HF are not a bad option, with a 400w inverter lightly loaded.

I totally assumed the bike was going to get artwork, and be registered at the gate.

But what you really need, is a frame that takes two ebikes, and carries a couch between them. 8)

 

[VultureChow]

Sounds like a generator at the party is covered then. But if you have the cash, the panels from HF are not a bad option, with a 400w inverter lightly loaded.

I totally assumed the bike was going to get artwork, and be registered at the gate.

But what you really need, is a frame that takes two ebikes, and carries a couch between them. 8)

Oh she'll be decorated.

My dream for a mutant vehicle is a canoe. Only slightly above ground level and a mounted paddle in the rear is the steering mechanism. Think the fur trappers from Kids in the Hall.

 

[Kingfish]

I've thought of this too. When I'm off visiting at the summer home where we make our own power, I'm using the 7.5kW generator to drive my charger. Seems wasteful.

Why not use buck-boost and up the car battery DC voltage above pack voltage, then monitor that during charge? Still need some sort of current control and cut off.

Back to coffee <slurp!> KF

 

[cal3thousand]

My Hyperion works straight off a 12V DC source. Why add an inverter? Seems to be adding inefficiency and complexity.

Am I missing something?

 

[panurge]

My Hyperion works straight off a 12V DC source. Why add an inverter? Seems to be adding inefficiency and complexity.

Am I missing something?

He is not using an Hyperion but a grid charger. And you are right this is the paradox of this setup, converting and reconverting DC into AC again into DC.

Anyway, If you have a server or a MW switching supply, that's the best way to power the Hyperion, but if you have a cheap car battery charger and a spare Car battery with a decent Amperage, than you could get 250+Watts from the hyperion or the full 550w that the 1420 is able of with 2 of them in serie. Otherwise if you try to supply the Hyperion directly with the cheap car charger you find big sags on the current flow of the supply and the hyperion will run frequent safety end-charge routines for an imput power error. (sorry for the OT )

 

[dogman dan]

When I first got going with lipo, I got the brilliant idea to take a large deep cycle lead battery to the track, to recharge my 72v 10 ah lipo battery in the pits.

It worked great, 150w RC charger would put about 3 ah into my 10 ah pack, and then shut down because the lead was sagging so bad. So I was going to have to hook it to the car, then run the car. At home I put the lead battery on a lead charger, then ran the RC charger Screw that, I ended up just taking the 3000w generator to the track, and everybody charged off of it easy. By the time I took the trip, I'd bought a meanwell to run the chargers from.

But if I take a trip to the mountains to ride, I take my little 800w. Small and handy. You won't regret having one. But I still like that solar panel idea a lot too. Your charger will have a lot less watts draw on the battery, and if 30w is coming in from the panel, it should work tolerable well. Perhaps after an hour, start the car for 10 min.

 

[friendly1uk]

We ran a PA for hours on end while my car ticked over. 600w cheapo inverter that runs 750w power tools without complaint.

Lets presume your bike is 10Ah and your car 40Ah. You might even get away with not running the car. The invertor won't kill your battery, it will turn off before it does that. Just wait till the invertor stops, then fire up the car and hold the revs up for a short time. You will be sticking power in the battery 10 times as fast as it is coming back out. Or just do that every half hour during charging. You could even take a voltmeter to do it properly.

There would be no reason to run the car constantly when the car charges 10 times faster than the bike at mid range rpm. The car won't want to just tick over either, many emissions systems don't work that way. Short durations of high rpm running should be fine. The car charging system is way better than the bikes. Let the bike drag the car down, then the car will charge at a meaningful rate.

If the bike takes 5 hours, the car need only run for half hour. If your car did loose half its charge there is no issue, so 15 mins is ample.

 

[wineboyrider]

My Hyperion works straight off a 12V DC source. Why add an inverter? Seems to be adding inefficiency and complexity.

Am I missing something?

Pretty much what I said earlier in the post get 2 or 3 lead acid batteries and charge them in parallel and then charge your lifepo4 with what you capture from your car generator and/or solar panel. The hyperion and others shut down when the voltage sags below a certain point anyways.....

 

[Kingfish]

Thinking more about how to adapt a car 12V system or a dedicated DC Generator 12V output to directly charge my pack...

DROK 120W 12V/24V/48V 10-32V to 35-60V DC Converter Voltage Regulator Boost Charger Car Power Supply DIY
@ Amazon for only $12.80 USD.

Specs:
Input voltage :10-32V DC
Output voltage: 35-60V DC (adjustable)
Output Current: 5A (MAX)
Input Current: 16A (MAX) (Please enhance heat dissipation if more than 10A)
Output power: natural cooling 80W (MAX), enhance heat dissipation 120W (MAX)

For 10A out, you'd need a few of these in parallel.

The output voltage is not high enough for my particular pack, though it could get it pretty close. Perhaps a two-stage process would get me into good territory. Maybe not the best answer, though some consideration <slurp coffee>.

I did a little calculation on output wattage; for me at 63V 10A -> 630W.
Flip it around for a lossless conversion and it's 63/12 = 52.5A from the car or generator. Most cars can handle 60A.

Hmmm <rub chin>, a new micro-wrinkle is beginning to form in my high-porosity aging gray matter; I sense the gerbils are turning...
Giddy-up lil' fellers, KF

 

[fechter]

I sense the gerbils are turning...
Giddy-up lil' fellers,

In San Francisco, that has a completely different meaning

 

[Kingfish]

^ :lol: The art of prose it to stimulate thought, however provocative. Imagery and allusion are self-derived.
For myself, I prefer to keep the meanings simple.

• "The wheels of creativity are turning – albeit slowly."

Is it Saturday yet?
More coffee. KF

 

[panurge]

That's my ebike today in an emergency charge in a farm in the brandenburger countryside, with a car's battery inline between an hyperion and a cheap lead charger (150w).
I will post a pic of a charging session from a 20Kw solar plant once I'm in Italy again.
I love the RC charger, I've used it to charge near every kind of battery from smartphones to laptop to 24v 120Ah SLA coupled with a PS. would be good to have one that delivers the double of the watts, actually.

 

[RLD70]

Charging while riding with my Solar Power Station was used several times with the old Currie motor and I got better distance than without it obviously. Instead of using the car or whatever vehicles battery you use, why not create a self-sustaining power station like mine? I paid alot more than $185 like what can be found on ebay and such for my 115W panel, almost $500 to be exact. So roughly $185 for a 100W panel is a steal IMO plus some of them come with their own charge controller nowadays unlike mine. The only things that are still missing are my 1500W power inverter and 2 deep cycle marine batteries with a total amperage of over 200Ah when paralleled together which is definitely more than enough to fully charge the battery pack(s). Now imagine a 12v 200+Ah Lifepo4 battery pack to use with the panels instead of SLA marine batteries and its sounds like a great idea until you see the sticker price, lol. But Im betting itd be well worth it in the long run to save and buy the lifepo4 pack then to keep using lead acid batteries.

 

[jkbrigman]

Wow...cool. Go and have a great time, come back and tell good stories! The answer to your original question is YES, you can use an inverter connected to the car battery. You'll probably get 2 or 3 ebike charges out of your car battery before you have to run the car and recharge the battery.

If this: http://prodecotech.com/bikes/battery-charger-43-8v-2ah-for-36v-battery/
is the charger you have, it's about a 90 watt charger.

You should be fine powering it from this inverter, on sale at Northern Tool. $29.95 and it includes the connectors you need. It has two 120vac sockets and a USB charging port: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200422352_200422352

You can add a solar panel to keep your car battery charged. No soldering, no technical knowledge except knowing that RED=positive and BLACK=negative. The solar panel will store OK in a small apartment or condo and will always be available for providing 12V power, charging a car battery or creating emergency power without making noise. Your car's 12vdc power port needs to be the kind that stays ON when the car is turned off.

Here a decent choice for solar panel. 20 watts for $59.95 on sale at Northern Tool. Includes all the connectors you need.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200578630_200578630

BTW: Anyone who is a Northern Tool buyer might also have a $5, $10 or $20 off discount card that can go against these purchases.

Don't forget to have your car's battery checked at Advance Auto or Pep Boys by a mechanic before you go to make sure it holds a charge and has enough electrolyte. If you've not replaced your car battery in 3 years or more, it's possible you need a new one anyway.

dogman sounds like he's got extensive BM experience. I like his idea of taking a small generator and can of gas and having the ability to provide electricity in exchange for booze. A generator is kind of clunky and you've got to learn how to run it, but anything you can do to create a surplus of electricity to share will give you some barter power. Handy!

Warning! Doing solar will increase your attractiveness to others at Burning Man. YMMV, batteries included, etc..

 

[jkbrigman]

So, hey: VultureGruel (or whatever)....what did you decide to do?

 

[Ykick]

Thinking more about how to adapt a car 12V system or a dedicated DC Generator 12V output to directly charge my pack...

DROK 120W 12V/24V/48V 10-32V to 35-60V DC Converter Voltage Regulator Boost Charger Car Power Supply DIY
@ Amazon for only $12.80 USD.

Specs:
Input voltage :10-32V DC
Output voltage: 35-60V DC (adjustable)
Output Current: 5A (MAX)
Input Current: 16A (MAX) (Please enhance heat dissipation if more than 10A)
Output power: natural cooling 80W (MAX), enhance heat dissipation 120W (MAX)

For 10A out, you'd need a few of these in parallel.

The output voltage is not high enough for my particular pack, though it could get it pretty close. Perhaps a two-stage process would get me into good territory. Maybe not the best answer, though some consideration <slurp coffee>.

I did a little calculation on output wattage; for me at 63V 10A -> 630W.
Flip it around for a lossless conversion and it's 63/12 = 52.5A from the car or generator. Most cars can handle 60A.

Hmmm <rub chin>, a new micro-wrinkle is beginning to form in my high-porosity aging gray matter; I sense the gerbils are turning...
Giddy-up lil' fellers, KF

I already posted similar on pg 1 with higher input and output voltage range. Boosting from 12V to 62V requires about 10A and delivers about 2A respectively.

Very simple though and quite handy device to have laying around for emergencies and/or those moments when a PS just doesn't put out high enough voltage and/or regulate current.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-Boost-DC-DC-Converter-Power-Supply-Step-up-Module-10-60V-to-12-80V-600W-mah-/300896310668?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:3160

 

[dnmun]

i was looking at the prices for solar panels on CL the other day and there are a lot of really good deals where people are trying to get rid of panels at super prices. one guy was selling 4 sharp panels still in the box, never used. two were 210 watt and two were 230 watt all for $500. like cheap in my book. i saw you can get really good MPPT charge controllers for up to 150V for around $220.

so if you have the batteries already you could be in the solar business, 850W for about $800. 800W is alotta power. i did not realize there were such good deals out there. thought it was still over $4/watt.

you can do similar deals for the chinese imports but they may have already enacted surcharges and import duties on them. so CL would be the way imo since you can pick them up yourself. this deal for the sharp panels was a few hours drive total, so it is a way cheap deal. way cheap. imo.

 

[ezzpete]

this thread is for me!

in the winter i'm a snowbird and camp boonedocking style (dry camping) out in the desert for months at a time. i have 2 100watt solar panels and 2 6V Trojan 105 golf cart batts. This all works great for TV/DVD watching, lights (LED) and keeping my laptop charged using a 12 to 19 VDC charger.

I am looking for a 12VDC input charger that i can use to charge both 36 and 48VDC lithium ion batteries. i contacted Hobby King and was told that the closest thing they sell is a 10s for 36V batts, and I'd need 12s for the 48V. anyone have a recommendation for a charger that will do 12VDC to both 36 and 48VDC? without modification. the batteries i will want to charge are not made up of individual 12V batts, so i can't do them separately. I do have a inverter, but don't want to use it, due to too much power loss.

 

[Hwy89]

Ezzpete, welcome to ES.
Check out this listing on Amazon.com.
Hyperion EOS 1420i Net3 Charger - 1S-14S, 20A Max, 550W by Hyperion EOS Charger, Price: $104.95.
This is the charger I'm getting ready to buy for my 12s(48v) lipo packs. Hobby King doesn't carry any chargers that can handle over 8s so the alternative has been to split packs in half and charge the two halves seperately.
The Hyperion charger will charge up to 14s(56V) and at a faster rate than any of the HK models. It can be powered at 12 or 24V DC.
I have three 12s battery packs that I have been charging from a solar array and a bank of golf cart batteries with a HK four channel charger. This works OK. but it only puts out 2.2 amps and it takes forever to charge the high capacity packs. The Hyperion charger puts out 550 watts as opposed to the 50 watts per channel on my currant charger.