Victpower A123 20AH 48volt battery pack

[redstone02]

Please see the attachment. When I probed the balance wires last night, the item identified as "white connector" of the attachment, matched the 8 pin and 7 pin layout of my BMS board.
My board has a silk screen "BAT -" above pin 1 of the 8 port connector.
With the black probe on the "BAT -", pin 1 of the 8 port connector registered one cell; pin 2 = two cell values; pin 3 = three cell values, etc.

I will post these measurements tonight.

I was hoping to "tap" the balance wires using mating connectors (not wire splices) for two CellLog.

 

[999zip999]

I would drop victpower an email on the bms and ask for advice. If you cut it open it my voilate your waranty. Guessing a cold soldier on the charging fet leg or ect. That's a no money bet. Just xray eyes.

 

[hillzofvalp]

Lol void warranty one victpower pack? Joking? It's covered it duck tape... Unless it is specially made duck tape with void detection...

 

[agniusm]

Lol void warranty one victpower pack? Joking? It's covered it duck tape... Unless it is specially made duck tape with void detection...

Good one.

 

[999zip999]

O.k. Lets cut the blue bms wraper and see what's loose. Hay where are you located ?

 

[RayGo]

agniusm makes a good point. I would also like to know how the A123 packs are joined together in the Victpower units. In the event of a defective cell, I want to be able to easily replace it. I prefer nuts and bolts to soldering and especially welding. Even if Victpower honors their 1 year warranty, the shipping makes any savings unattractive. Unfortunately, I have not been able to get any specific details on repairing or replacing a defective battery pack from them. They only agreed that the buyer should be compensated, whatever that means.

Has anyone opened up one of these pre-assembled battery packs?

By the way, why is the A123 AMP20 a "soft" pack? I have not seen one personally yet but why wasn't it encased in some other lightweight but "rigid" material like other batteries?

 

[redstone02]

Hello All,

I have measured the following:

Charger @ no load = 58.6 volts

The batteries are labeled as shown on circuit board:
B- = 3.4
B1=3.4
B2=3.35
B3=3.36
B4=3.35
B5=3.4
B6=3.42
B7=3.38
B8=3.36
B9=3.43
B10=3.39
B11=3.36
B12=3.35
B13=3.41
B14=3.38
B15=3.4

 

[redstone02]

I would drop victpower an email on the bms and ask for advice. If you cut it open it my voilate your waranty. Guessing a cold soldier on the charging fet leg or ect. That's a no money bet. Just xray eyes.

Yes the BMS is covered with heat shrink. So maybe warranty issues.
There is no way to keep the duct tape from looking like its been opened w/o rewrapping with new tape. Not going there.

DigiKey Part Numbers:
To mate with CellLog = 455-2217-ND
To mate with BMS = 455-2269-ND (7 PIN) & 455-1902-ND (8 PIN)
For Balance lead to BMS straight through =455-2252-ND (7 PIN) & 455-2251-ND (8 PIN)
All ready have the socket pins.

These coupled with CellLog 8S will give me x-ray eyes... to a degree.

 

[redstone02]

agniusm makes a good point. I would also like to know how the A123 packs are joined together in the Victpower units. In the event of a defective cell, I want to be able to easily replace it. I prefer nuts and bolts to soldering and especially welding. Even if Victpower honors their 1 year warranty, the shipping makes any savings unattractive. Unfortunately, I have not been able to get any specific details on repairing or replacing a defective battery pack from them. They only agreed that the buyer should be compensated, whatever that means.

Has anyone opened up one of these pre-assembled battery packs?

Check out: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=41912
I see you are checking it out now cwah's reveiw.

By the way, why is the A123 AMP20 a "soft" pack? I have not seen one personally yet but why wasn't it encased in some other lightweight but "rigid" material like other batteries?

I have not opened but the size indicates a soldered tap... welding no way... more btu's to make the joint = more $$$.
The cost per joint would drive a soldered tab.

Thank you for your help you PM'ed!!! Super cool. I'll tip a beer your way!

Best Regards,
Tom

 

[redstone02]

agniusm makes a good point. I would also like to know how the A123 packs are joined together in the Victpower units. In the event of a defective cell, I want to be able to easily replace it. I prefer nuts and bolts to soldering and especially welding. Even if Victpower honors their 1 year warranty, the shipping makes any savings unattractive. Unfortunately, I have not been able to get any specific details on repairing or replacing a defective battery pack from them. They only agreed that the buyer should be compensated, whatever that means.

Has anyone opened up one of these pre-assembled battery packs?

By the way, why is the A123 AMP20 a "soft" pack? I have not seen one personally yet but why wasn't it encased in some other lightweight but "rigid" material like other batteries?

I have not opened but the size indicates a soldered tap... welding no way... more btu's to make the joint = more $$$.
The cost per joint would drive a soldered tab.

Thank you for your help you PM'ed!!! Super cool. I'll tip a beer your way!

Best Regards,
Tom

Check out: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=41912
I see you are checking it out now cwah's reveiw.

A cut & paste inside agniusm's post... sorry about that.

 

[999zip999]

Yes good thread cwah's can we make a group of A123 thread's folder or thing ?

 

[dnmun]

Hello All,

I have measured the following:

Charger @ no load = 58.6 volts

The batteries are labeled as shown on circuit board:
B- = 3.4
B1=3.4
B2=3.35
B3=3.36
B4=3.35
B5=3.4
B6=3.42
B7=3.38
B8=3.36
B9=3.43
B10=3.39
B11=3.36
B12=3.35
B13=3.41
B14=3.38
B15=3.4

this is the voltage when disconnected from the charger? you need to keep it on the charger until they all read 3.65V while charging. no matter how long, leave it charging. it is only about 50% charged if that is the voltage while on the charger.

 

[agniusm]

+ some more time to balance

 

[redstone02]

First problem....

http://youtu.be/UG9Xxx0jq28

I guess I'll find out how good the one year warranty is...

Got two replies from Victpower:

Dear:Tom
I m gotta say , we have tested all before shipping
Bms were new , never be damaged ..
I guess the problem was from transportation....
So this is unfair complain for seller ...who can guarantee it is not transpotation problem
Now just need resolve the problem,,what should i do ?pls ....
If just for 1 pack ,complain paypal and disput always ... make no any senses
My boss will kick my asss:
Best Regards

Dear:Tom
I dont know why did you complain paypal
Which place did we do wrong ?i just saw those attached photos
I think there is no any sucks or defective on the pack .
You see we just sold 1 pack batteris to you ,need cost time and energy to assembly
And do package finally ship to USA,is this not very easy ,just few hundreds US dollars
Now you said exist a bit defective ,paypal disputed with us then ......
Really no any words to say....
Best Regards

Since the 45 day PayPal deadline for filing a complaint was near, I filed compliant wiht PayPal.

Here is the solution I proposed this morning:
My solution:

• Victpower sends a new BMS like the one installed on my 16S pack. I will mount the new BMS myself. Simple for Victpower, simple for me = win-win.
OR
• Victpower sends a new BMS like the one installed on my 16S pack. I will mount the new BMS myself. PLUS I would purchase two extra A123 20 AH pouches (pouches only, not complete packs). This may not be practical, I do not know about shipping. This would allow me to change out if packs fail. Victpower would no longer warranty my 16S pack. Win-win??? I do not know about shipping and how you feel about this solution.


Either of the above, I hope would make for a win-win for both of us.
Let me know what you think.

 

[dnmun]

why did you need a new BMS? did the BMS not balance the pack? did you ever get the cell voltages up to 3.65V? is there a problem with this BMS that keeps it from charging?

 

[redstone02]

why did you need a new BMS? did the BMS not balance the pack? did you ever get the cell voltages up to 3.65V? is there a problem with this BMS that keeps it from charging?

Hello dnmun,

The BMS has a short. Check out: http://youtu.be/UG9Xxx0jq28
Watch the DMM and fan noise (the charger fan turns off when not charging).
After I posted cell voltages, the pack was charged for two hours. There were some cells that were not fully charged.
At work now and will post the final voltages later.

Thank you for your help.

Respectfully,
Tom

 

[dnmun]

how do you know it has a short? i only see you poking the outside of the plastic sleeve. you know nothing more than that? what did it look like inside when you cut the plastic sleeve off?

 

[redstone02]

how do you know it has a short? i only see you poking the outside of the plastic sleeve. you know nothing more than that? what did it look like inside when you cut the plastic sleeve off?

Hello Dnmun,

I recieved the battery pack on Tuesday and I'm trying to get Victpower to send a new BMS. I have not opened the BMS; I do not want to give Victpower a reason not to honor warranty.

Should my "poking" finger cause the BMS to stop working?
In the question above, I am defining the BMS as not working as the DMM voltage increasing to charger output and charger fan turn off (the fan is off when the charger is not connected to battery and when battery pack is fully charged). Watch DMM voltage with my finger poking. How would you classify the poking finger, DMM voltage increase and fan shut off? Might be a dumba$$ question but in my simple mind there is a short of some type in the BMS.

Thank you,
Tom

 

[dnmun]

nope, not a short, a loose connection in the sense wire plug. you need to cut the plastic off and look inside to see what is loose. you don't want that plastic on there anyway. unplug the sense wires first and use some scissors to cut it open.

 

[999zip999]

I think you will never send it back the price of shipping and victpower warranty the poor guy was scared of getting in trouble. So cutting open the blue wrapper you will have to do that when you get the new bms or to fix the loose ?

 

[ohzee]

yea it's the 1 think I was sure about when I mentioned it. You need to cut away whatever is covering that BMS and share the pic.

just make sure you don't make anything worse when cutting it away.

 

[999zip999]

Ceramic knife just or just be careful 60v.

 

[dnmun]

no. disconnect the sense wires first so there is no voltage inside do not use a knife, use scissors and use them in such a way that you are pulling the plastic sleeve away from the pcb. i suspect the BMS would start working though if you just unplugged the sense wire plug and plugged it back in. if it doesn't then you gotta open the plastic sleeve and see.

i expect they will just demand you ship the battery back if you want a refund. doesn't seem like much wrong though. just a loose connection on the sense wire plug. maybe a cold solder joint where the pins are soldered to the pcb.

 

[redstone02]

I think you will never send it back the price of shipping and victpower warranty the poor guy was scared of getting in trouble. So cutting open the blue wrapper you will have to do that when you get the new bms or to fix the loose ?

LOL! Nope not "the poor guy was scared". I've been in the vendor’s shoes and I have met the village idiot.... several times. Just respecting vendor and allowing no room for doubt that it is the product… not me dicking around with it. If Victpower has any type of warranty this will test it, no excuses.

 

[redstone02]

I think you will never send it back the price of shipping and victpower warranty the poor guy was scared of getting in trouble. So cutting open the blue wrapper you will have to do that when you get the new bms or to fix the loose ?

Just got an email from Xin Wang... getting new BMS with no return of old BMS.
I'll cut that sucker open in the next couple of days.
Right now I have cobbled together a load bank with the following loads:
4.3 amperes
8.5
11.0
15.0
20
24

This afternoon the pack stayed on the charger (~six hours).
At this time the pack has been @ ~24 to 20 amperes.
~13.6 ah
~50.0 volts
~700 watt/hour
according to my "watts-up" meter.

Respectfully,
Tom