Walmart Booster Batteries

skeetab5780 said:
I still feel like these are not the way to go. They are only 4ah polymer cells. Granted they have a warrant that most don't buy into, so the only plus is they are easy to charge. But you could easily charge a echo tool pack too.

There are Echo 58v 4ah packs all over the internet for $50 part# CBP-58V4AH

They are smaller but don't have a built in flashlight so you may get lost in the dark
Click to expand...

They are great 18650 packages.

This is typical:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECHO-58V4AH...747865?hash=item3f664527d9:g:HccAAOSwhRxXKkkx

And this is with charger:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECHO-CBP-58...819181?hash=item3d08c034ad:g:jCYAAOSw14xWHBKJ
 
I wouldn't buy anything like that on Newegg.com

There are better options out there for more capacity at less price. That's all im saying, and it doesn't take much more than a week of reading around here to learn how to charge anything properly on the cheap.
 
Boyntonstu said:
My motor is 1,000 Watts. For my purposes, I do not consider 6-12 miles short rides.

Also, for 120 bucks (plus a 2 year $12 warranty) the Boosters are great for a beginner to learn about Electric bikes, wiring, soldering, and battery performance. Simple, no other parts required, plug and play.

The Walmart Booster experience will not be wasted time or money. What would you recommend instead?
Click to expand...

I do consider it a fun learning experience. I bought three for $90. One will stay in one of my cars, where it's proven to be useful. Another I will keep to charge USB stuff. I just paid $10 for a wall wart that burned out. For $30, this seems to be more powerful, although I did run one out of blue LED's charging my kindle overnight.

Personally, I squeezed out 15 miles poking along at 10-12 mph, burning less than 200 mAH per mile. Some users might burn 400-500mAH per mile. They are short range and I get range anxiety. I like coming home with at least 50%. Six miles is a half hour ride for me. They might work for winter when a five mile ride is a trek/adventure for me.

I picked up a soldering iron almost before I learned to walk and was hammering down radios in the hills of Kentucky when AM radio still played music. Not really, but I can solder surface mount or copper plumbing. EC5's were new to me. First time I ever used a torch to solder electric parts, but like you wrote, that's the best way. I had to watch a youtube video to learn how to pop the connector into the housing. That's where you use a hammer. LOL.

Someone who doesn't know immediately how to connect these up ought to return them and buy a store bought battery with 18650 cells and a power switch.

I wanted to throw these in a basket and power up my wife's old Giant step-thru bike with a 250 watt geared hub motor. (She wants something smaller than the big beach e-bike cruiser she has now.) I don't think it's quite enough for our typical ride. I might consider a compact 6AH battery from Luna. That's $229 plus $40 for a 52V charger. Wish they had a 48V model for $199. Already have two 48V chargers.
 
Interesting skeetab, it seems the 4ah has a 30a peak bms!
The BMS can do 30 amp bursts but seems happiest running at 15-20 Amps
Click to expand...
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/04/18/use-your-cordless-power-tool-batteries-to-power-your-ebike-what-could-possibly-go-wrong/
^ that guy has gotta be on here right? Good article.

Now I'm thinking the 52v eco packs might be just perfect for the neighbors who just do short trips to go fishing and to the store. They don't have much money, so about 300$ will do a nice yescom kit and little starter battery. Might have to buy one to attempt use without voiding the warranty!
 
nutspecial said:
Interesting skeetab, it seems the 4ah has a 30a peak bms!
The BMS can do 30 amp bursts but seems happiest running at 15-20 Amps
Click to expand...
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/04/18/use-your-cordless-power-tool-batteries-to-power-your-ebike-what-could-possibly-go-wrong/
^ that guy has gotta be on here right? Good article.

Now I'm thinking the 52v eco packs might be just perfect for the neighbors who just do short trips to go fishing and to the store. They don't have much money, so about 300$ will do a nice yescom kit and little starter battery. Might have to buy one to attempt use without voiding the warranty!
Click to expand...

From the Echo review:

". I pretty much rip on HK Lipos with every article I write and I assure you this one will be no different. HK Lipo’s suck and they are not worth wasting your time and energy with."

Therefore, why rip Walmart Boosters which have given me 1,300 miles over the past 8 months?
 
Meh, he's entitled to his opinion. And they ARE a more volatile chemistry. But I use them too- and totally naked. And sometimes I wear shorts. (dancing crazy smile emoji)

I like those <100$ tool packs to pair with 180-210$ hub kits. Best/safest/cheapest/reliable 'base' model. Put them on peoples bikes for <500 total, and/or build and sell a few entry bikes with them. For many people when you start talking hundreds and hundreds for a battery it becomes out of the question, and the nice packs or lipo etc is always there if they're game.

The boosters are another cheap alternative, and as a bonus are modular @ 12v, but besides money many low end buyers also lack almost all knowledge (and desire to get it) short of bars on a laptop, phone, tablet, shaver, etc. The tool batteries have a better warranty, would require no serial harness, and are fully protected. And they don't cost more.
 
Gotta chime in and give my weigh in since I OWN these and have been USING them.
They are cheap, of questionable quality (just ok, for me, so far), and have limited uses.
They are most certainly not for extended range riding unless you plan to putput along at 12-15mph.

As I reported, I was able to manage 9miles @ 17-18mph. That was mostly a single run with a few start and stops here and there. Taking off from a stop is going to eat a lot of juice.
I am using 3 packs for a total of 37.5v charged. Run them down to roughly 32v.
The lipos inside these packs are only 44.4Wh. With 3, that is only 133.2Wh. That is not much when you will burn about 20Wh a mile @ 20mph. About 6.5miles

And at the full cost of $40 each, certainly not worth the price per Wh.
Now, what the OP is doing is basically renting these packs with the extended warranty from Wally World.
That is fine, but it is a huge gamble. My personal experience (read: on many many accounts), Walmart will fight you tooth and nail to keep from replacing an item. Especially when we are talking 2 or more of the same item. You would most likely have to take in one at a time, and to different stores, to get them all replaced. If you are fighting with the warranty company, you wont have that option.
And you know the warranty company is going to wonder/be skeptical as to why 3+ items all went bad near the end of the warranty period.

Lets just say, it will be V E R Y YMMV. All I can say is, good luck.
Now, if you can get these for cheap, they are certainly worth the effort to use. I got my 3 for $5ea. when they were clearanced out months after the holidays. Would have bought more had I known what was inside them. Too little too late. Next time... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Walmart was NOT the warranty company for anything that I bought..

It is a third party, and I have dealt with them in the past.

They have great Customer Service, and I am confident that my Boosters will be replaced or my money will be refunded.

If you started a car with one, I would guess that the high current damaged it.

These devices are for emergency use and for very short duty cycles,

I should have never have gone 30 mph and discharged mine to LVC.

When I get my next set I will baby them at 20 mph max and never run them to LVC.

LVC is at 3.5 V average.

I run mine to 3.8+ V.

You allowed yours to go to 3.55 V average.

MMIQH (is quite high)
 
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

"Figure 1 illustrates the capacity drop of 11 Li-polymer batteries that have been cycled at a Cadex laboratory. The 1,500mAh pouch cells for mobile phones were first charged at a current of 1,500mA (1C) to 4.20V/cell and then allowed to saturate to 0.05C (75mA) as part of the full charge saturation. The batteries were then discharged at 1,500mA to 3.0V/cell, and the cycle was repeated. The expected capacity loss of Li-ion batteries was uniform over the delivered 250 cycles and the batteries performed as expected."

My Walmart Boosters are at 217 cycles and they are still viable but with less capacity than new.

What has been your experience?.
 
Boyntonstu said:
Walmart was NOT the warranty company for anything that I bought..
It is a third party, and I have dealt with them in the past.
They have great Customer Service, and I am confident that my Boosters will be replaced or my money will be refunded.
Click to expand...

I know, I was not saying they were warrantied BY Walmart. You may have misread my comment, or maybe I did not word it just right.
You bought a warranty through Walmart, which is the same company they use for pretty much all their products as far as I know. I and several people I know have had issues with getting our warranties honored, which then resulted in having to deal with the Walmart store we bought them from to get a resolution.

The Walmart "Product Care Plan" is handled by Asurion. And there have been numerous reports of this company doing what all warranty companies do best: Attempt to negate warranty claims.
A wise man would look into the feedback about this company before making a move.
If they have been good to you, that is absolutely great. But I think others need to be aware of the possibilities and risks involved, based on Asurion's track record.

What I was trying to convey is that these are not the best choice. The $$$/Wh is not there. Sure, easy to use, easy to obtain. But super slow to charge, variable quality, and not suitable for long ranges.
I'm trying to inform others that expressed interest in using these on their build. They can do as they like, just not the best option. I am sure you agree with that as well.
They've worked great for you and me so far. You are basically renting them for 2yrs, I got them on a dime. Not everyone will be under the same circumstances.

As far as Walmart and these packs are concerned, they have no warranty at all! Which I find to be very alarming.
Your only choice is to buy the "Product Care Plan" and hope for the best 2yrs down the road. Worst case, the packs go bad and you overpaid for a subpar battery.
Well... I guess they could go boom. LoL Let's not think of that option though. :mrgreen:
 
252 recharge cycles.

The average cell voltage after a 6 mile ride today was 3.83 V

One of the four batteries has lost 1 Volt when it is fully charged. It aparently has a higher internal resistance.

Initially, the starting fully charged Voltage for the four in series was 51.0V, now it is 49.8V

The 2.125" tires appear to have less roling resistance than the 1.95" knobbies.

If the low battery was the same as the others, it would be a great success.

There are about 16 months left on the warranty.

I now believe that 2,000 miles is likely.
 
You got way more charge cycles than any of us expected. Unless you want to open it up and check the individual voltages, I would throw that thing in the trash as it will quickly become a fire hazard when charging/discharging as it gets more out of balance! If you are going to keep using it, at least make sure you are nearby to monitor the charge via both voltages and temperatures of the cells. Unless you have a place to charge it where you wouldn't mind a large fire.
 
Your project is very interesting, and it has been very successful. Please keep us posted on it from time to time.

I tried to look up your past posts on this, but was not too successful.

Tell us more about the history of this project, the switch from 36V to 48V would be interesting, including power and range difference on the bike.

Are you removing the 12V groups to charge them individually?

I want to build a Li ion battery but it would be so simple to buy two HK 6s, 16Ah Lipos and just use them. I use a lot of Lipos, so they are a familiar type. Advice?

Well done, keep us posted.
 
I ordered a 11-28 Freewheel to replace my 14 toother on my hub motor for higher speed PA.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321840071826?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Since my bike is apart, I decided to use the 2 year extended warranty to replace the set of 4 that have weakened.

The Everstart Boosters are still useable for a 6 mile ride,

This is what I discovered after numerous telephone calls:

The warranty people told me that Everstart is responsible for the first year. After December 2, 2016 and until Dec 2, 2017, they would handle the returns.

The Everstart telephone number is very hard to find.

After some arm twisting I got: Everstart 888-387-8278

The Everstart Customer Service told me that they do not make Everstart Booster Batteries, Johnson Controls is the 'manufacturers'.

Johnson Controls 414-524-2733

They transferred me to Chris Cotton And yes, the Boosters are not made by them. They can't halp me.

He contacted the right person and I received the following email.

Chris Cotton | Team Lead – Walmart and Sam’s Club| Johnson Controls, Inc. – Power Solutions
105 SE Executive Drive; Suite 5 Bentonville, AR 72712 |

As long as he has his receipt online, he can return to any walmart store.

--------------------------------------

I intend to get a complete refund including the $3 each for the warranty.

I am in the market for a 48V 10 Ah 10+ C rated LiPo battery.

I am thinking of a pair of 6s batteries.

Suggestions? Do you have some batteries lying around.
 
Those scoundrels!

I just did the 'pick axe' test on an old 4s lipo the other day and it was interesting and informative. Might have been moreso if they were really charged. . . :idea: Anyway, that gave me the idea that maybe you could/should do some charging and discharging 'tests' until the boosters fail (or burst into flame)? It would be handy to learn a little more about failure modes etc, and there should also be no doubt as to the warranty if you bring in a pile of burnt plastic and copper :p

I kid, I kid. But a note on a new pack: don't buy used. Buy new along with a cellchecker or two, and a decent PS to bulk charge, if going non-bms as most small pack users do. The multistars should deliver your power requirements in 10ah - 16ah and be the best bet, and price.
 
+1 on the Multistar packs from HK...just look for the special sales !
but, these "shark" packs do look well suited to the Day6 frames..
cache_4099358707.JPG
 
the "Shark" battery format is very common and available from various suppliers, in various voltage and capacities, and cell brands....(all 18650s by the way)
..hence prices vary a lot..
be aware that there are very cheap ( ~$200 ), 48v 10Ahr , versions offered on Alibaba etc with very dubious quality, whilst reputable suppliers like Luna might ask much more for a quality product.
http://lunacycle.com/48v/
As with any Li battery, shipping can be expensive and/or difficult from overseas suppliers
You can also buy just the Shark case for $50 if you want to build your own
 
Hillhater said:
the "Shark" battery format is very common and available from various suppliers, in various voltage and capacities, and cell brands....(all 18650s by the way)
..hence prices vary a lot..
be aware that there are very cheap ( ~$200 ), 48v 10Ahr , versions offered on Alibaba etc with very dubious quality, whilst reputable suppliers like Luna might ask much more for a quality product.
http://lunacycle.com/48v/
As with any Li battery, shipping can be expensive and/or difficult from overseas suppliers
You can also buy just the Shark case for $50 if you want to build your own
Click to expand...


Thanks, here is where I am headed:

Yesterday, I purchased 4 of these 5,200 Multistars on sale for about $144 including shipping:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...apacity_6S_5200mAh_Multi_Rotor_Lipo_Pack.html

I also got 2 of these rerminal strips on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/172176881092

I will use the strips for cell balancing and for cell Voltage readings.

There are several wiring possibilities:
48V with the batteries in series/parallel.
A pair of 48V strings, one to go out, and a switch to the other string for the ride back.
3 of them in series (1 left as a spare) and a 72 V controller for a fun experiment:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/72V-1000W-E...687426?hash=item5b2ab76ac2:g:tTgAAOSwM0FXIIWy

My 6 mile rides were OK using the mediocre Walmart Booster 3.5 A batteries,

I am excited about the next phase.
 
At 1,800 miles, they still get me 6 miles, but barely.

I plan to replace them with these 6s batteries:

IMG_0346_zpsjztxstkq.jpg


The batteries were on sale for $28

I will have two 48 V strings with the ability to use them one at a time or both in parallel.

I ordered a 6 position 2 pole rotary switch to quickly meaure individual cells (click, click click..) and for balancing.
 
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