Watts All The HUB Bub!!!

[HippieLove]

So i have been researching before a buy.

I am a limit pusher.

I am wanting too rock a fat tire bike. With the info i have come across smaller circumference great efficiency.

Well, fat tire still in mind. I found a 1500~5000w 20" mptotrcycle hub drive on leaf. Any one got anything to say about slapping one of these bad boys on a fat20"?

 

[dogman dan]

Fine idea, but likely it will be very hard to put a regular pedals and chain on the motor, to at least appear legal. Choose your rim size based on the diameter with motorcycle tire. 20" is huge in motorcycle rims.

John in CR did something similar with a powerful scooter hub. But in Costa Rica, anything you build is legal to ride on the street.

That 3000w hub that is out there makes things a bit easier for a "bike" Nice powerful motor, and a regular bike freewheel screws right on. Not saying buy one from this place, but here is an example. Might be the same "motorcycle" hub you are looking at.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CE-certificate-electric-bicycle-kit-60v-72v-84v-3000w-brushless-hub-motor-motorcycle-conversion-kit/1956424331.html

In this case, the motor has bike freewheel threads on one side, for use of a bike single cog freewheel. This gets you pedals for show.

Put your general location in, (which continent at least) so people understand which set of vehicle laws you will be riding under. User control panel, profile.

Too bad you weren't on ES a few months ago. Slowpoke cycles spent a week at my house, and you'd have loved a ride on a 10,000 watt full suspension e bike they had with them. Bet it would have convinced you to go that route, vs a no suspension fat bike. But of course, a $3000 DH bike as a starting point gets pricy fast. And how to carry the battery is a huge problem with that kind of build.

 

[HippieLove]

Wow

I hadn't even been thinking of local law.

This is how much of a limit pusher i am. I guess this is my next research ass ignment.

 

[HippieLove]

Ahh come on Dogman!!!

You know i am power hungery here.

Now you are telling me there is 10,000w motors out there. Want want want. I will put on a backpackloaded with batteies as well as saddle bags!!!

It took a while for all that info to sink in.

Yeah i am pretty sure i am returning the bike i currently have.

 

[John in CR]

I am a limit pusher.

The limits are low with fat bicycle tires when it comes to turning unless you're interested in the exploring the limits of the feeling that the tire is trying to roll off the side of the rim.

FWIW, installing a thread on freewheel for a pedal line is a pretty simple process. Just by a cheap rear aluminum hub for a BMX with large spoke flanges, and cut it off just inside the spoke flange. File or grind the piece and motor side cover enough to roughly match. Then bolt and glue it on with DP120 epoxy, or better, have it welded on. The key is getting it well centered and true.

 

[HippieLove]

Wow

Okay

JOHN IN CR

So you say the limits are low the fat tire? In a tight turn has a feeling of the tire peeling off ?

Is this something you can attempt to confirm as an actual happening with perhaps someone watching the tire while you are in a hard turn?

This 20" motorcycle hub i found on leaf comes with its own 4" tire so far the dimensions seen the same as the 20" fat tire bike i have seen. I found a diagram of the hub with measurements now is a matter to measure the bikes' ability to fit the hub in the rear. I

I like the idea of slipping a free wheel sprocket over it i am sure the is something that can be done.

 

[dogman dan]

S why I linked you to the motor that would come with a rim for motorcycle tires. It sounds like you will be wanting more than a bicycle tire can really give.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Yeah, if you push a fat bicycle tire hard, it will try to peel off the rim at the extreme low pressures these tires run. You have to adapt a new style of riding to keep that from happening, and be aware that putting a side load on the tire at the wrong angle could peel it off the rim. And fat tires handle like crap if you push them too hard. My 10,000 watt Fat bike has taught me an entirely new style of riding, and an entirely new colorful vocabulary for when things go wrong.

If this is your first bike, Don't start with the biggest baddest thing you can dream of. The only way you can push the bounds of what's possible is if you have enough experience to know what those limits are. On the road to making a successful high powered bike, you're going to fail a lot. Stuff will fry, parts will break, Things that work on a normal bike will behave in some seemingly random, unpredictable way when under the stress of high power. Crazy unpredictable sh1t will happen.
So start with a basic 500 watt motor, and make it a solid successful bike. then start pushing the bounds until you have modified it into a 3000 watt monster that leaves mopeds and scooters in the dust and passes cars in traffic. Once you have first hand knowledge and experience of what it takes to do that successfully, then crank it up to 11, and build your next limit pushing baddass bike.

It's a hell of a lot cheaper to build your final bike, when you don't have to repeat the mistakes you learned from the early bike.

 

[dogman dan]

Had a nice visit with Hippie Love yesterday. He got to take his first ebike ride, on lame stock 1000w bikes.

He was pretty impressed with how easy such a low power setup gets up his problem hill. But of course wants more speed. He's ridden fast motorcycles plenty, so he's a real wheelman. Not some dork with a new DUI that never rode anything with two wheels since mid school. So of course 40+ mph sounds perfect.

Much of this is because the direct route home runs about 3 miles up a 6 lane road I'd describe as a death route. 45 mph cars, wall of steel stuff. Major arterial feeder road to the nearby interstate, so max traffic. It would be right cross city to ride that bike lane, so keep up or die.

Fortunately, there are alternate routes he can use to eliminate, or shorten his ride on the death route. We talked about how the bike route can differ from a car route, including taking the fun way instead of the short way.

He has the mongoose fat bike, and we talked about how it could be modified for fast running. lengthen it some, motorcycle rear tire, shock fork and wide, but not fat front tire. The frame is perfect for modding into a motorcycle rim rear tire, or a scooter motor like John uses. He's got some welding skills, and can get access to a mig.

But the real impediment to his dreams is simply budget. (about $1200 for immediate spending) I showed him RC packs, and an allcell pack, and started explaining that the ante for 1000w (with 10-15 miles range wot) was $500-$800 depending on what was used, charging setups, and or bms.

Then we talked a lot about how the battery budget goes exponential for more speed. Same budget can go 40 mph, but for perhaps 5 miles, double it for 10 miles, quadruple it for 10 miles faster than 40 mph, etc. He could see right away how a bike that really does what he dreams could cost $3000-$5000. And, might be better to start with a full on DH bike.

For now, what I recommended for him was the "Wesenwel bike". Cheap o 48v 1000w kit, and a 48v 10ah battery that will do him to get to work and back. (not that far, but more than 5 miles) Then as funds are created by not driving his truck, upgrade to a 72v capable controller with 40 amps with a DP CA. More amps might be all he really needs, 30-35mph at that point.

Then lastly, as funds are there, bump to 72v 15 ah for a bike that can do 40 mph when he needs it. He's got suitable bikes in the back yard already, so an expensive bike upgrade won't be needed immediately. Just some good tires.

 

[dogman dan]

Some links to stuff we talked about here Hippie man.

The fell off the truck amazon deal seems to be gone now. But this one looks good, Good vendor, I just bought a bike trailer from them.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_25?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=48v+1000w+electric+bike+kit&sprefix=48v+1000w+electric+bike+k%2Caps%2C290&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A48v+1000w+electric+bike+kit

Then the battery. You might consider this.

http://calibike.com/?product=electric-bicycle-ebike-48v-15ah-lithium-li-ion-battery-and-charger

This battery is similar in performance to the allcell pack that was on the FS bike you rode. But much cheaper than an allcell pack. This would be all you'd need, to go close to 30 mph, and plenty of range for the work commute, charging only at home. Safe to charge, not needing all the precautions against burning the house down you'd need for RC packs.

The simulator. http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

The better Grin controller I thought would be a top notch replacement for the cheap one in the kit, for later.

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/controllers.html

Which would ideal to mate with this, for full adjustability of max amps, max speed, etc. Dialed down, the big controller could still be used with a lower power battery like the Cali. Then later, you could get a better battery for hauling ass at 72v.

http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/cycle-analyst.html

Lastly, we didnt' discuss this much. But if you wanted to run the fat bike, but at 25-30 mph, this guy has the same general type of gear motor you rode yesterday. But he can supply it with a long axle.

http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=55

That would make a nice fat bike, but dumping the general aim of going much more than 30 mph. With the right route, you won't have to have 40 mph to survive the commute.