Wearing out cassettes

[byebyepetrol]

I'm running a Bafang BBS01 350w and have just worn out the teeth on the 11T, 12T and now the 13T sprockets on an XT 10-speed cassette.

Shimano XT sprockets must be made from hard cheddar. These have worn out in 1000km (600 miles).

Anyone else experienced rapid wear like this?
Anyone found an alternative to Shimano 10-speed sprockets or cassettes made with a harder material than cheese?

 

[Ykick]

11, 12 and even 13 tooth rear cogs are a compromise at best. The knowledgable bicycle guys around here suggest 14t or more for best chain and sprocket longevity.

 

[Overclocker]

get 9spd. some would argue 8spd but the sprocket thickness almost exactly the same. in fact you can create custom cassettes from a mix of 8spd and 9spd cogs

10spd uses thinner cogs

and you have to keep the chain clean and lubed. use KMC MissingLink or sram powerlink. dunk the chain into a can with kerosene and ATF. swirl it around and wipe off with a rag. quick and easy.

check out the cs-hg300 12-36t. cheap. then avoid 12t unless you really have to

 

[byebyepetrol]

Thanks guys.

I like the sound of the 9 speed cluster especially at the cash register, they're almost half the price of an XT cassette.

My chains are cleaned regularly and missing links are used on all my bikes. My bike is used 99% for commuting and rarely thrashed.
Chain alignment is close to ideal. My hunch is it's the cog material. If I could buy titanium replacements I would.

FYI
I got a quote for 11T, 12T and 13T XT cogs from Germany, around $50AUD inc. shipping; a 9 speed Alivio cassette is almost the same.
It just doesn't seem very planet-friendly-sustainable to have to replace just 3 cogs with another cassette and throw away the old cassette.

 

[Overclocker]

over here the cs-hg300 costs PHP600 or less than USD13. at these prices you don't even have to worry about sprocket wear

this CS-HG20-9 is even cheaper! but rusts. over 1000km on this cassette (GNG middrive). very very little wear. so yes the metallurgy is OK even on the cheapest model

 

[Paladin]

You could just replace the 11t.
For example.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-XTR-M980-10spd-11t-Cog-repair-part-sprocket-wheel-for-11-34-36t-11T-/321606699973?hash=item4ae140cbc5

 

[Warren]

For many decades engineers knew that sprockets smaller than 14 teeth wore out too fast. Then they discovered disposable culture. And making them narrower/thinner, so you could talk about how many more gears your system had, just made it better. Think of the weight savings you can claim with a 40:10 drivetrain, as compared to a 60:15! Ahh...progress.

 

[cwah]

same problem for me!

 

[byebyepetrol]

Thanks Guys,
Those XTR cogs are a good price, thanks for the link.
I'd better buy some before the Aussie dollar plunges further.

 

[Warren]

I don't understand why somebody doesn't come out with a 14-41, 8 speed cassette for mid-drive bikes.

 

[2old]

BBP, good that you're replacing the cogs since (I THINK) the 10 speed is a dedicated system, and if you went to 9 speed, you would need a new derailleur and shifter. I'm installing a 750w BBS02 on a steel hardtail and am using very inexpensive 8 speed parts for the rear changing system. I'll report how it wears when there are some miles on it.

 

[byebyepetrol]

re: 8-speed
That's a sound strategy. Interested to hear how you get on.

IMHO there's a market here for Bafang to fill; all they need to do is
supply hard-wearing 5-speed cassettes with 10/9 speed spacing.

5-speeds should do it; 11T to 24T.

I run 11T on my set-up for it's top-end (40 to 45kmh |25-27mph comfortable cadence).

 

[Warren]

I have thought of this too. You could easily make a 4 speed cassette, with two of each sprocket sandwiched together. Use a Grip Shift, 8 speed shifter, with every other detent filled in with plastic body filler. You'd need wider bushings in the derailleur pulleys, and longer corresponding bolts, to allow running wide single speed chain. Not rocket science. With such wide spacing, even single speed chain should shift fine.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html

Stack parts, starting from wheel flange, on 8 speed cassette body: one 3.0 mm spacer, two 1.6 mm, 34 tooth, 8 speed sprockets, two 3.0 mm spacers, two 1.6 mm, 24 tooth sprockets, two 3.0 mm spacers, two 1.6 mm, 17 tooth sprockets, two 3.0 mm spacers, two 1.6 mm 12 tooth sprockets, cassette lockring washer, cassette lockring. If you have an older 7 speed cassette body, you can forget the first 3.0 mm spacer.

You'd have a long lasting cassette, with perfect equally spaced ratios, for a fraction of the cost of a hightec 10 speed setup.

Gear chart using MPH @ 90 RPM

For 26 inch (nominal) tire

Custom Sprocket Cassette

46T chainring

12t=26.7 mph

41.7 %

17t=18.8 mph

41.2 %

24t=13.3 mph

41.7 %

34t=9.4 mph

 

[byebyepetrol]

That sounds like a worthwhile challenge Warren.

As for my cassette I have a hunch the chain slipping isn't the cogs or chain at all.
Check out the Hope Pro freehub:

It doesn't slip in the bigger cogs since they're all bound together and the torque is distributed over a relatively wide area.
The single cogs, 14T,13T,12T & 11T however, take all the torque through an admittedly loosely fitted thin profile.

Thoughts?

 

[ScooterMan101]

Roadies , ( Road Riders ) put Thousands of Miles on the Cogs and Chainrings, and they have been doing that on 11 speed cogs for the last 5 or so years, so the problem is not the
Cassette, the problem must lie in the Mid-Drive, the Torque it is putting on the chain and cassette .
Many Thousands of miles and not the problem you have with the mid-drive.
If you never go up a hill, then 8 speed could work for you, however many people have to, or want to go up hills.
10 speed and 11 speed works better , not a marketing thing, it is real , it works, it is better for your legs !

I'm running a Bafang BBS01 350w and have just worn out the teeth on the 11T, 12T and now the 13T sprockets on an XT 10-speed cassette.

Shimano XT sprockets must be made from hard cheddar. These have worn out in 1000km (600 miles).

Anyone else experienced rapid wear like this?
Anyone found an alternative to Shimano 10-speed sprockets or cassettes made with a harder material than cheese?

 

[byebyepetrol]

Sage advice ScooterMan101.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Here is a good link to a business that has good prices and ships to Australia.
In fact I heard from the person on the phone with me on my last order from them, that
the owner of the Business decided to hand deliver , in person, the 1 millionth order, and low and behold
it was in Australia !
I will let them tell you the rest of the story.
here is the link

http://www.jensonusa.com/Search?q=10+speed+Cassettes&&qSrc=def

I have not researched where you could get a cassette freewheel/freehub body to replace that gold one you
have that is damaged. You could ask them by e-mail, they can get most anything even if it is not up
on their website.

Sage advice ScooterMan101.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Thanks for the link. Jenson has some great prices. I hope Jenson's boss made a holiday of it while he was over here.

Since this freehub is pretty much knackered I'm thinking of bonding the freehub and cassette to it with JBWeld.
Permanently. I can still prise it off and replace with a new steel freehub later on.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Could you have a machinist make you a new freehub body, using your old one as a pattern ?

On the 10 speed cassettes , you do not have to go with XT, you could order 2 or 3 of the lower price/group set like Deore or under and sell one
on your version of craigslist, to help offset the shipping / import taxes . and still offer someone a good deal price wise.

I made a holiday over there years ago. One night I was riding around Adelaide with a couple of bike riders I met on the street, we were riding like
Kids on BMX bikes, riding over and on top of anything in site down town, at one of the pubs we stopped at one of them said, perhaps you have heard of my cousin
his name is ... Stuart O'Grady !

That was many years ago, but still remember it.

Thanks for the link. Jenson has some great prices. I hope Jenson's boss made a holiday of it while he was over here.

Since this freehub is pretty much knackered I'm thinking of bonding the freehub and cassette to it with JBWeld.
Permanently. I can still prise it off and replace with a new steel freehub later on.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Replacement Hope Pro freehubs are readily available The steel replacement is 115AUD. Apparently it's quite common
for the alloy freehubs to wear when mated to steel cogs.

Not a bad name drop; Stu is a legend over here.

 

[2old]

Chris, Chain Reaction Cycles in the UK frequently has parts less expensive than I can find in the US, ships free for $99 or more and I've never had any type of vat add on. Don't know what their policy is for you, but you might check.

 

[Warren]

ScooterMan101,

"If you never go up a hill, then 8 speed could work for you, however many people have to, or want to go up hills.
10 speed and 11 speed works better, not a marketing thing, it is real , it works, it is better for your legs !

Rubbish! Unless you are an elite athlete, If you are going up a steep hill, you will be grinding away in your biggest cog. It won't matter how many cogs you have below it.

byebyepetrol,

I don't see the pictures of the freehub, but aluminum freehubs do get notches worn in them by the cogs, sometimes making it difficult to get the cogs off. Unless the cogs have worn completely through the freehub splines, this is not the slipping that you are experiencing. It could be the pawls in the freehub failing, or more likely it is the chain jumping the worn cogs. I dealt with this many times as a bike mechanic.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Replaced just the cassette with a cheaper SLX 10-sp version and it's fixed the slipping.

It wasn't the freehub at all despite the worn faces.

Full throttle ahead!

 

[Warren]

Replaced just the cassette with a cheaper SLX 10-sp version and it's fixed the slipping.

Did you check the chain with a chain checker? There are lots of different brands. This is about the cheapest.

http://media.performancebike.com/images/performance/products/1500/40-3545-NCL-INUSE.JPG

A worn chain will wear out a new cassette very quickly, and visa versa. Check your chain every 50 miles, in several different spots. It takes a few seconds. When the tool goes in on the .75 mm side, replace the chain. You may get 500 miles out of a chain riding as you apparently do. Get the cheapest chain you can find. You might go through half a dozen chains this way before having to replace the cassette. How fast the chain wears out depends on many things. Do you always start in low gear, and shift up, like a standard transmission car, or do you take off in high? Do you ride in the rain, and dirt? Are you over 160 pounds? All these variables will affect your chain/cassette mileage. I get 3000-3500 miles per chain on a "350" watt mid-drive. Still running the original, 8 speed, 14-34 cassette after 20K miles.

 

[byebyepetrol]

Sage advice Warren and 20K miles on your set-up is outstanding.

My chain (SRAM) is AOK so far.

FYI
Two new sprockets arrived for the XT cassette and relatively cheaply from an
ebay seller that the locals can't price match; $43AUD inc. freight.