What charging connector do you have on your battery?

[kmxtornado]

UPDATE
Thought I should follow up with what I ultimately went with. SB50 connectors for discharging. APP45 for charging.

My LiFePo4 battery came with a household connector. Made an adapter to work with my APP45.

ORIGINAL POST
Curious what connector you guys are using for charging. Please state what type of battery chemistry and then what connector and some info about your bike and why you picked that connector style. I'm most likely going to use either 30A or 45A anderson poles for my 48v 22amp controller setup. XT60 I'm familiar with but seems overkill. I don't like the in-line and RCA ones because it's harder to put a volt meter on those types of connectors without shorting something.


CHARGER CONNECTOR
My 48v 20ah LifePo4 has a house charger connector which seems odd to me. Would look to change it out depending on the results of what you guys say here if not the anderson poles.

CONTROLLER CONNECTOR:
My controller uses anderson power poles currently, the 45amp rated red/black ones. My new battery uses the larger anderson poles, the grey ones, 50A.

 

[amberwolf]

FWIW, battery chemistry itself doesn't (well, shouldn't) have anything to do with what connector you'd use for charging.

Charge rate (amount of current) does, in that you need a connector that can handle the current you'll be using (it should also be designed to handle the voltage...there are some connectors like the RCA plug that are designed for small-signal use, not higher voltages such as are commonly used on ebikes).

Connector choice should also include it's ability to prevent or at least minimize the ability to accidentally short across any of it's contacts.

Personally, I would, if using a gendered connector with exposed pins (like the commonly-misused XLR, IEC-C13/14, etc), put the exposed pin side on the charger (which should be fused on it's output as well as input, though they often aren't), and the recessed-pin side on the battery, because a charger, if shorted, only has a limited amount of energy it can pour into the short; the battery is only limited by the resistance of the connections and cells and wires...and if you heat up any of those enough you can get a serious fire. The charger will probably blow a component long before that happens, and all you have is a dead charger, instead of a pile of charcoal on the concrete slab with your former home address on it.




For all my systems in use nowadays, I use the same genderless Anderson SB50 connector for charging and discharging (see your other thread for specifics).


If I had separate connectors, I'd still use the same kind, though, since I don't have a BMS on my EIG packs.

If I had a BMS on the battery with separate charge and discharge ports, I'd use a differently keyed version of the connector on each, so the charge port couldn't be plugged into a device intended to be powered by the battery, and thus overload the port, and also bypass the BMS's ability to control charge/discahrge. .

My charger on the trike is built into the system, always connected via the controller-side of the Cycle Analyst shunt. (there is a circuit breaker and a battery-disconnect between the battery side of the shunt and teh batery itself).


The exception to this at present is my 4s2p EIG lighting pack on the SB Cruiser--it uses PP45s on the primary output, with a cigarette-lighter accessory socket on the secondary (to run an air compressor or USB-output phone charger, etc), and a tertiary connector on the same cable (because like the traction pack it has no BMS) is a female XLR with a rubber weather resistant cover to match the XLR that comes on the Cycle Satiator used to charge that pack. I've considered several times changing that XLR to an SB50 and putting an SB50 panelmount type on the trike, or just wiring the Satiator in on the lighting side of the disconnect relay for this pack, but I use the Satiator to charge other things too, including ohter people's bikes on occasion when testing for them, and the XLR is convenient in that there are pre-made adapters for it to some of the most common ebike plugs, making that easy to do (I could make my own...but these already exist).

 

[kmxtornado]

Yes! I was thinking that myself too! RC Lipo batteries always have the female side of the connector on the battery where the juice is for the exact same reason you mentioned. Shorting over a charger is less dangers and less of a possibility than on the battery side. Especially with smaller hobby batteries that are brought in bags into the field and carried around a lot, shorting is much more common. I would've figured the same logic would've still translated into the larger batteries so I was certainly surprised to see the male side on batteries and female side on chargers. Good to know I wasn't the only one who thought that was a no-no.

Aha, the grey Anderson has a name. I had to Google Anderson SB50 but now I know. Thanks.

I see, so the separate cables coming out of the battery are for the BMS. Got it. Learning something from you daily this week! It's all coming together. Yes, I was also thinking the connectors should be different so I don't accidentally plug the wrong thing into the wrong wire.

Should I use Anderson SB50 for discharging (connection to the motor) and the 45amp APP for charging? Figured the one with larger amp rating should be on the discharge motor side since I'm only going to be charging my 20ah battery at 5amps.

 

[amberwolf]

Aha, the grey Anderson has a name. I had to Google Anderson SB50 but now I know.

They come in a bunch of colors (at least six or seven) and keyings, to use the same size connector in several places in a system but prevent incorrect connections.

They also come in several larger sizes; I have three of the smallest, the largest of which is bigger than the palm of my hand, with contacts the size of my pinky....

Should I use Anderson SB50 for discharging (connection to the motor) and the 45amp APP for charging? Figured the one with larger amp rating should be on the discharge motor side since I'm only going to be charging my 20ah battery at 5amps.

Depends on what connectors you personally prefer, and/or what specific needs you have for your system.

Do any of the connections have to be waterproof, or sealed in any way? (if so, andersons may be a poor choice as they require extra stuff to do this)

Do you need troubleshooting access to the contacts while it's plugged in? (if so, andersons make this easy)

Do you need something you can tie the wires down on right up to the connector shell? (if so, andersons are all a bad choice because they need to "float" in the shell)

Do you need something that will "absorb" the damage from the spark upon connection? (if so, andersons are designed specifically for this with sacrificial tips, none of the mating contact surface ever touches during initial connection).

Etc.

 

[kmxtornado]

Ooo, thanks! All this really does help. I too was thinking I could use the same connectors but different colors. I liked that idea but I noticed the wires on my battery for charge and discharge are vastly different and figured it may be weird to put a giant SB50 one on a small 14 gauge wire.

So the setup I'm thinking is APP45 for charging on what I believe is a 14AWG wire and then the grey SB50 for discharging on what looks like a 12AWG wire (or possibly 10AWG). I'm not really sure how to tell. Can you tell me what range of gauge of wire is needed for APP45 vs SB50?

I have no need for a waterproof setup as I won't be riding in the rain or at least don't plan to.
Yes, trouble shooting access was something I certainly was considering as well. I remember trying to put a volt meter onto one of those three prong in-line circular ones and accidentally touched the outer ring. The shorting of it scared me enough to make me jump and everything turned black. Last time I'm doing that!

What do you mean by "floating" in the shell?

Absorbing the spark from initial connection would be great. That always kinda scares me. I have the other scooter in my avatar that uses spade connectors and it surprises me everytime I connect those little guys. I plan to change those to APP45 too just for a cleaner setup.

 

[amberwolf]

I too was thinking I could use the same connectors but different colors.

Except for gray and black which are keyed the same, all the other SB-series shell colors are keyed differently so they can't be plugged into each other. So as long as you use colors that are not keyed the same, then you can't cross connect even in the dark. (that is a problem that has destroyed things for a number of ES members over the years...they didn't think they'd ever need to worry about it, then one day (or night) they decide to connect something with insufficient lighting, and....

I liked that idea but I noticed the wires on my battery for charge and discharge are vastly different and figured it may be weird to put a giant SB50 one on a small 14 gauge wire.

They make different contacts for various gauges of wire:
https://www.andersonpower.com/content/dam/app/ecommerce/product-pdfs/SB50/ds-sb50.pdf
View attachment ds-sb50[1].pdf

So the setup I'm thinking is APP45 for charging on what I believe is a 14AWG wire and then the grey SB50 for discharging on what looks like a 12AWG wire (or possibly 10AWG). I'm not really sure how to tell.

If you have the option to get the non-black/non-grey color housings, I'd recommend that, because they can't be connected to other colors--no accidents as long as you never use the same color on a different voltage or other purpose than what you use it for here.

Can you tell me what range of gauge of wire is needed for APP45 vs SB50?

The PDF above has all the data for the SB50 series contacts vs wire gauges, so you can choose the right contact for your wires. The wires themselves you should choose based on the current flow required in that part of the system.

This one has the PP45 data:
https://www.andersonpower.com/content/dam/app/ecommerce/product-pdfs/DS-PP1545.pdf
View attachment DS-PP1545[1].pdf

I recommend using the highest retention-force contacts in whichever size you end up with, so they can't accidentally become unplugged, unless you have a specific reason to make them easier to disconnect.

What do you mean by "floating" in the shell?

Most connectors are designed so that the contacts must be installed correctly and well-aligned already, or they don't mate correctly..They're usually held reasonably tightly in the shell so they can't move around, so they can't really self-align.

Some connectors are made with various self-aligning features, but to work these require that the wire or it's insulation not be too thick and fill the back of the shell, and that they not be bound prior to entering the shell in a way that prevents them from moving with the contact, or else the contact can't move around (float) inside the shell during mating and self-align.

SB and PP connectors are designed with a flat mating surface and a spring under them in the shell, so that they can be misaligned to some degree when connecting them, and they'll still self-align and correctly mate.

If the wire or it's insulation is so thick that it touches the shell, it may prevent the self-align process. If it's actually forced against the shell, or tied down such that the contact can't move, or is actively twisted relative to the shell, it can prevent the self-align process from working at all, and only the edge of the contacts will mate, making a relatively high resistance connection. This is what causes many of the anderson failures you see where the shell has melted or deformed--the deformation itself causes further misalignment increasing the resistance and can even lead to a fire for really high current connections.

The PP connectors are more vulnerable to heating deformation from this because they use a softer plastic in a thinner shell than the SB series. But all of these connectors are vulnerable to these problems, so if you need to secure the wires leading to them that should be done so that there is enough loose wire into the back that they can still perform self-alignment correctly. Anderson has hardware made to help with this for various applications.

If you have any of the PP45 connectors you can play with them and force the wire around in the back of the shell and watch the contact move, if the wire is thick and/or stiff enough.

Absorbing the spark from initial connection would be great. That always kinda scares me.

The spark is sitll there. It doesn't absorb the spark itself, just the damage the spark causes, since the wedge-shaped tip is there to be eaten away each time it happens without damaging the actual mating surfaces.

To prevent the spark you'd usually need to use one of the many precharge setups discussed around here the years.