What does a Cycle Analyst get me?

[dgk02]

I have a cheap q100 front wheel kit and a 36 volt 15ah battery. It works fairly well. What does a Cycle Analyst do? Does it replace the controller or give me a better indication of the battery charge? The charge indicator on the battery broke a few weeks back (the two high LEDs aren't really working so it only shows at best half charge). That isn't critical since a 1/2 charge generally gets me the 30 miles to work and back. The indicator on the little computer thing (which has the power button and low/medium/high switch) always shows full (four lights) because I think it was designed for 24 volts and I'm running 36.

I was wondering if a CA will get me better control over the assist levels and give me a better idea of what is going on in the system.

I have had a problem the last few weeks with the motor intermittently cutting out - I can feel it but it usually picks up again. I think I fixed that, it was likely one of the three motor wires that seems to be making crappy contact with the controller wires - there's a black burned area in the connectors. I'll know later today when I give it a good test ride. But I was thinking that it would be nice to have a better idea of how to troubleshoot. The problem could also be the battery connections to the controller; it's sort of hard to tell what's going on sometimes.

 

[teslanv]

If your motor is cutting out when you are going up a hill (or otherwise inducing high current), then it is quite possible that your battery is on it's last legs. The Low-volt cut-off on the controller may be killing the power if your battery voltage sags too low.

A Cycle Analyst will tell you much more detailed information on the state of the battery (A digital Voltage read-out, as well as speed, instantaneous watts, amps and amp-hours used) It can also restrict current by overriding your throttle to protect the battery, among many other features. It is a very worthwhile device to add to your bike, and I highly recommend you get one, especially if your current battery gauge is three (red, yellow, green) LED lights.

 

[dgk02]

No, it's very intermittent, riding along and I can feel the motor die and then come back on, usually within a second. I figured that the blackened wire couplings were probably interfering with the current but I'm far from sure. I tried to clean them as best I can but without spare parts it's tough to test these things.

Where would a CA actually fit? All the connectors are mated to each other right now. The battery leads to the controller, and the controller connects to the rest of the parts.

http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2013-5G-GN9P.6Y9KM

 

[teslanv]

Where would a CA actually fit? All the connectors are mated to each other right now. The battery leads to the controller, and the controller connects to the rest of the parts.

You have to wire in between the controller & battery. The CA-SA model just measures battery current, so you would not be able to override the speed control with that set-up.

Alternatively, you could change out the controller for one that has a CA Connector (either version 2.3 or V3) and then buy the appropriate CA.

The wiring could get complicated if you go that route, though, so if that is beyond your comfort level, and you just want a better battery gauge, a basic watt-meter might suffice.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...er_Analyzer_US_Warehouse_.html?strSearch=watt

 

[dnmun]

"blackened wire couplings" are so neat. don't you just love it when the coupling can color itself and you don't have to paint it?

 

[dogman dan]

There are two kinds of Cycleanalst. One , the DP, will plug right into controllers designed to use it. Then you get speed limiting, amps limiting, and low battery slow down features.

The kind you can use with any controller, is the stand alone version. It's still the worlds best ebike gas guage. It will track power usage in watts, watthours, amps, amphours, watthours per mile, cycle count, and several other things I can't think of right at the moment. it's also a speedo, and odometer.

If you want to know what is going on, nothing beats a CA. I should get my third one in the mail today, I just won't ride my bikes that don't have one.


But, if all you want is a simple watt meter for a gas gage, then you can get a blue on on ebay for 16 bucks delivered.

 

[dogman dan]

Oh, and the cutouts are from the fried plug. You might look into replacing them. 4mm bullets or 45 amps andersons are the common choices.

 

[cal3thousand]

Read my sig. CA gets you out of noob status!

All jokes aside, you are taking a leap into know MUCH more about your bike and battery. How would you feel driving a car without a dash or any other gauges? Estimating fuel consumption, speed, fuel reserve, motor temp and motor load are things that are nearly impossible to do accurately without the gauges on your car.

Same goes for ebike and CA. Put a cardboard cutout on your car for a week that covers the dash gauges and see how you fair. That's how I'd feel riding an ebike without a CA.

(And that's the bare minimum that the CA 2.3 does. The V3 does TONS more.

 

[teklektik]

You have to wire in between the controller & battery. The CA-SA model just measures battery current, so you would not be able to override the speed control with that set-up.

Alternatively, you could change out the controller for one that has a CA Connector (either version 2.3 or V3) and then buy the appropriate CA.

There are two kinds of Cycleanalst. One , the DP, will plug right into controllers designed to use it. Then you get speed limiting, amps limiting, and low battery slow down features.

The kind you can use with any controller, is the stand alone version. It's still the worlds best ebike gas guage. It will track power usage in watts, watthours, amps, amphours, watthours per mile, cycle count, and several other things I can't think of right at the moment. it's also a speedo, and odometer.

Sort of but not really.

All Cycle Analyst models of a particular generation (V2 or V3) have identical console units with identical firmware and capabilities.

For the V2, the differences between units (CA-DP, CA-DPS, CA-SA) are in how the device gets the shunt voltage and speed signal. Any of these can be converted into the other and all are capable of speed/current limiting and LVC. For instance, a CA-SA can be connected to any controller to detect speed from the motor and do current limiting, etc with the addition of a connector and single 1K resistor to the external controller wiring - no need to open the controller.

So - if you are comfortable soldering, etc then a second-hand CA of any type can be pressed into service for your specific application with at worst an external shunt and/or wheel pickup from ebikes.ca.

That said, if you are not comfortable soldering wires or making up connectors, then you will need to get a CA and controller that are plug and play - but that is based on out-of-box connectors and your fabrication skills not limitations of a particular CA type.

 

[dgk02]

I'll head off to the store and see if I can locate some 4mm bullets or 45 amp Andersons. One problem with my setup is that the mini-controller lives in a compartment in the battery rack, so space is tight and the wires that come out of the hole in the compartment are short. If I'm going to replace those connectors, it's probably best to pull the controller out of the compartment and redo the wires, soldering on new ones that are longer. Or, I can just get a better controller that will work with a CA. I guess that all the the existing parts (brakes, throttle, console, PAS) will work with any controller if the connectors can be made to fit. I don't know if a new controller would fit in that compartment. The compartment is 50*55*130mm. Just like this battery: http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/466-24v-lithium-ion-little-frog-abs-shell-ebike-battery-pack.html . Probably not, I see another controller is 135mm*87mm*45mm. Where do folks keep the controllers?

 

[Ykick]

In/around LIC Queens & 50's Manhattan - 'have 4mm Bullets and large soldering iron. I also have stash of APP's and proper crimper but only 30A contacts at the present. PM if you need/want some help qualifying and/or sorting out wire/connectors.

 

[cal3thousand]

I'll head off to the store and see if I can locate some 4mm bullets or 45 amp Andersons. One problem with my setup is that the mini-controller lives in a compartment in the battery rack, so space is tight and the wires that come out of the hole in the compartment are short. If I'm going to replace those connectors, it's probably best to pull the controller out of the compartment and redo the wires, soldering on new ones that are longer. Or, I can just get a better controller that will work with a CA. I guess that all the the existing parts (brakes, throttle, console, PAS) will work with any controller if the connectors can be made to fit. I don't know if a new controller would fit in that compartment. The compartment is 50*55*130mm. Just like this battery: http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/466-24v-lithium-ion-little-frog-abs-shell-ebike-battery-pack.html . Probably not, I see another controller is 135mm*87mm*45mm. Where do folks keep the controllers?

"the store"?

I'd love to see the store that carries this stuff on hand. I can't find anything like that locally and I live in Los Angeles

 

[dgk02]

I figured (incorrectly) that the local hardware store would have some nice electrical connectors. I did try RadioShack a week ago and got what I though were connectors, but they are the permanent type (heat shrink type). I think what I may do is just cut out the connector from the three motor wires and splice them together with those twist top things as a temporary measure, and see if the problem goes away. It was very bad going home yesterday, stuttering a lot and just shutting off. I kept having to turn it back on and usually that worked for a bit. The one time that it didn't work I just pushed the wires around and eventually it started working again. The bike is light enough that I could easily ride it home without the motor but I prefer not to do that these days!

After this weekend I'll have a better idea what's going on.

 

[teklektik]

"the store"?

I'd love to see the store that carries this stuff on hand. I can't find anything like that locally and I live in Los Angeles

I figured (incorrectly) that the local hardware store would have some nice electrical connectors.

Try a large hobby store that deals in RC - around here they carry bullets. APP can be tougher to locate. I can buy them locally at an electronics store but usually buy them in bulk from Powerwerx.

 

[dogman dan]

Buddy EP can ship you 4mm bullets really fast. Just bought more wire from them, just a few days and it was here.

My DP CA came yesterday too, hooked it up, and SWEET! I'm going to really love the amp and speed limiting features next time I want to ride 60-80 miles. Going to love having a soft lvc too. When my pack gets low, it will go into slow mode. Running naked lico, so that will be nice. Set to where I want to start conserving, rather than a hard controller lvc.

All that programming easily changeable, even mid ride out on the road.

 

[Ykick]

I offered to help you locally and I'm not looking to charge money...

45A or not, I wouldn't use APP's for motor phase connections. They can be cantankerous to hold together and they make for a large bundle to dress out of the way.

Phase wires either direct splice or 4mm Bullet's the way to go. I have a good stash of bullets you can have 6qty for free - just need a proper way to solder 'em and arrange a pickup/dropoff. I'm around LIC and/or midtown frequently.

I only use APP's for battery-controller connections and my bikes stay under 30A therefore that's why I have plenty of 30A APP contacts and no 45's. But I do have the crimper tool in town which is the legit way to assemble APP's if you ever wish to update your battery connections, etc.

 

[LockH]

Coming late to convo "What does a Cycle Analyst get me?"... Just checking, anybuddy here bring up Nirvana yet? (I suppose it's possible some may not have ebiker dreams. Yet.)





(Seek out info on ES re the Magician that conceived/developed this thingee. Also, device should warn about play potential/distractions, although one might admit, no additional charges for that aspect of his thingee.)





Anywayz... Item on first message of first page on wannabe ebiker conversion/gift box items currently offered here on ES by PEP (Phoenix Ebike Promos).

 

[dgk02]

I offered to help you locally and I'm not looking to charge money...

45A or not, I wouldn't use APP's for motor phase connections. They can be cantankerous to hold together and they make for a large bundle to dress out of the way.

Phase wires either direct splice or 4mm Bullet's the way to go. I have a good stash of bullets you can have 6qty for free - just need a proper way to solder 'em and arrange a pickup/dropoff. I'm around LIC and/or midtown frequently.

I only use APP's for battery-controller connections and my bikes stay under 30A therefore that's why I have plenty of 30A APP contacts and no 45's. But I do have the crimper tool in town which is the legit way to assemble APP's if you ever wish to update your battery connections, etc.

Thanks for the offer, I work around South Street Seaport and live in Flushing Queens. I just hadn't thought that getting any of these would be tough. I'm had some trouble with the battery clip wires holding tight to the terminals in the battery rack but that tends to be an all or nothing deal and I have duct tape holding them on right now. So I probably do need to figure out a better system but the battery slides into the prongs so I don't see any easy way to bypass that.

For the moment, unless the idea gets rejected by you folks, I plan to just cut out the motor connectors and join the wires with those twist tops that I've used on some other projects and see if that solves the problem. Otherwise I have to find some other reason for the issue. It occurred to me that a problem in either brake cutoff could be to blame, but I don't see how that could cause the power to go off. No, it really has to be in the wiring.

 

[Ykick]

Do you ever take 59th St bridge in/out of Manhattan? I'm 1/2 mile from it, couple blocks from Citibank building. I'm not looking for money but I'm willing to help with another set of eyes and some experience on your issues. PM if you want to arrange a meet-up I can give you some 4mm Bullets and/or APP's, solder 'em, crimp, etc.

Twisted connections and wire nuts are kinda skanky IMO but can work in a pinch.

 

[dgk02]

Do you ever take 59th St bridge in/out of Manhattan? I'm 1/2 mile from it, couple blocks from Citibank building. I'm not looking for money but I'm willing to help with another set of eyes and some experience on your issues. PM if you want to arrange a meet-up I can give you some 4mm Bullets and/or APP's, solder 'em, crimp, etc.

Twisted connections and wire nuts are kinda skanky IMO but can work in a pinch.

I've used those twisty things a few times on 120 AC, but those connections don't bounce along the roadway. Everything on a bike gets loose sooner or later.

Usually I take the WillyB but I can certainly take the Queensboro - I used to take it all the time. Let's see how the weekend goes and hopefully I can stop by next week.

 

[999zip999]

More info about a 36v15ah batter, sla lead, lifepo4, lipo ?
What controller and how many amps ? These are the first answers that are needed to be answered.

 

[dgk02]

More info about a 36v15ah batter, sla lead, lifepo4, lipo ?
What controller and how many amps ? These are the first answers that are needed to be answered.

It's this mini-controller: http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2013-5G-GN9P.6Y9KM

And the battery is this BMS thing: http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/464-36v-15ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html

No idea how many amps. I actually did it as a proof-of-concept thing, that I could take a cheap (not dirt cheap) Schwinn Comfort Bike and for under $600 put together a decent eBike. But I like it so much that I ride it more than the Trek (BionX).

Now I'm wondering if I should put in a better controller and mate it with a CA? However, except for this recent motor stuttering problem, what I have is perfectly fine. I don't need a battery gauge really, I mean, I know that going to work and back (25-30 miles depending on route) will use about 1/2 the battery charge. So since I charge it every night, what do I really need to know more about? But learning for its own sake is often fun.

 

[Ykick]

More info about a 36v15ah batter, sla lead, lifepo4, lipo ?
What controller and how many amps ? These are the first answers that are needed to be answered.

It's this mini-controller: http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2013-5G-GN9P.6Y9KM

And the battery is this BMS thing: http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/464-36v-15ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html

No idea how many amps. I actually did it as a proof-of-concept thing, that I could take a cheap (not dirt cheap) Schwinn Comfort Bike and for under $600 put together a decent eBike. But I like it so much that I ride it more than the Trek (BionX).

Now I'm wondering if I should put in a better controller and mate it with a CA? However, except for this recent motor stuttering problem, what I have is perfectly fine. I don't need a battery gauge really, I mean, I know that going to work and back (25-30 miles depending on route) will use about 1/2 the battery charge. So since I charge it every night, what do I really need to know more about? But learning for its own sake is often fun.

That's a problem IMO. At minimum, knowing actual current helps zero in on many issues. Labels aren't the best way to qualify power demands & requirements.

If it were me, 'would insure everything (wiring/connectors) all up to snuff before going into replacement upgrades. Way too many variables to introduce new controller and possibly CA when maybe there's a wheel motor problem with phase/hall wiring?

Turnigy power meter is a "cheap" yet solid way to go for modest setups like this. The hat trick, as you're beginning to realize, is making the connection(s) in/out. That's basically why I have the tools and supplies I have. Being able to properly manage power wiring and resulting connection's = all the more reason to "have an idea" about how many Amps.

Your battery may have enough capacity now but over time that will change and being able to monitor performance and energy usage will become more and more relevant. CA is an awesome tool for something like that but I wouldn't install one in the hope it might correct an existing intermittent performance issue?

I work B'way show schedule - hit me PM if you want some direct help.

 

[d8veh]

Sorry for coming in late. Don't bother with connectors on your controller/motor wire. Cut off those cheap bullets and barrels, and solder them directly together. You don't need them because you have a connector on the motor end of that wire.

The Cycle Analyst is a great device. For your set-up, you need the SA version, which is very simple to fit. You just need to solder on two connectors. I'd swap my battery/controller connectors to Deans (female on the battery side), and put the same on the CA.

The CA will tell you all the info you need about your battery, but it's probably overkill for your needs. A cheapo Wattmeter will give you Voltage, power, current and amp-hours used. These GT ones offer the best value and are easiest to make totally waterproof. If you get one, post again, and I'll show you a good way to wire it up to go on the handlebars.

 

[dgk02]

Actually, my cheap kit does not have a connector at the motor end! The wire just runs all the way to the controller. On the other hand, I just fixed a flat on that wheel (front) with no trouble, so I guess I really might not need a connector. I did work on it a bit yesterday and pulled off the clear (now black) sealing plastic around the connectors, which was making it hard to really clean them. I scraped away at the socket ends and got them a bit cleaner. A quick test ride had no problem, so at least it appears that that is the problem area. Of course, instead of thick plastic/rubber around the connections, I now have a bit of electrical tape. That should be fine but if something was burning the covering, it will do a better job burning electrical tape.

Anyway, I think I'll visit Ykick and see what to do next.