What kind of helmet do you use?

That is not a anti-helmet site, it's a riders rights site.

The idea is to let the rider decide if they want to wear a helmet or not. Like them, I'm not in favor of someone running my life. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people out there that would ban motorcycles, bicycles, mopeds... We are the minority, cars rule this society and we are just getting in the way of them. ABATE is fighting to keep two wheels legal.

Look how regulations killed the moped. It used to be you just needed to be 16 to ride a moped. Pretty soon you had to have a license, then the bike had to be registered, then you had to have insurance, then it was a motorcycle or moped license you had to have, then you had to have turning indicators, then the helmet laws came along, pretty soon it will only be four strokes allowed, then come the pollution controls. The moped is pretty much dead, the very people that it used to appeal to no longer are interested in it because of all the added laws over the years.

Anyways, as far as the helmet laws are concerned, I think they could have made much greater strides in saving peoples hides through proper training, any real training for that matter. They should require a intensive college course in riding fundamentals and so many hours of behind the wheel training. Same thing with cars. Maybe have follow up courses too. The only place I have ever experienced that is serious about how to operate transportation equipment properly and safely is when I was learning to fly. Ever wonder why flying is so much safer? And they do not even wear helmets. :D

Deron.
 
I think its safe to say that wearing a helmet on a motorcycle increases your chances of living significantly. Motorcycling is risky enough to require helmets.

This is not the case with pedal bicycles. Bicycles are not nearly as dangerous as motorcycles because motorcycles go so many times faster. It is at the least unclear if its worth wearing a helmet on a bicycle. There are a lot of notable opponents to helmet use and helmet compulsion on bicycles.

Ebikes are somewhere between bicycles and motorcycles. But generally closer to bicycles. The only thing I can say for sure is the faster the ebike the more worthwhile it would be to wear a helmet. However careful riding and better hearing may be more important on ebikes travel at bicycle speeds.



HAL9000v2.0 said:
Helmet saved me twice and that is enough statistic for me. I even started to wear it on skiing few years ago.
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I wear a helmet when snowboarding as speeds are high and there are trees everywhere. I do not wear a helmet on my commuter bicycle.
 
The Stig said:
I wear a helmet when snowboarding as speeds are high and there are trees everywhere. I do not wear a helmet on my commuter bicycle.
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see, i was under the impression that u were under contract to never be seen in public without ur helmet on.
or are u the black one?


anyways was looking over some cool body armour & helmets if i ever do get my ebike going over 20 mph.
carbon fibre, full face vented for just under $300, could go for that.
http://www.sixsixone.com
 
The Stig said:
I think its safe to say that wearing a helmet on a motorcycle increases your chances of living significantly. Motorcycling is risky enough to require helmets.

This is not the case with pedal bicycles. Bicycles are not nearly as dangerous as motorcycles because motorcycles go so many times faster. It is at the least unclear if its worth wearing a helmet on a bicycle. There are a lot of notable opponents to helmet use and helmet compulsion on bicycles.

Ebikes are somewhere between bicycles and motorcycles. But generally closer to bicycles. The only thing I can say for sure is the faster the ebike the more worthwhile it would be to wear a helmet. However careful riding and better hearing may be more important on ebikes travel at bicycle speeds.
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Agreed; in fact I don't wear a helmet when riding a normal bicycle, but most certainly wear a full-face on a motorcycle. My arguments were from the point of view of riding a 40+ mph e-bike.
 
I used to ride with a guy who said a full face helmet nearly killed him. He was riding in the dunes and crashed, the helmet acted like a scoop and pushed sand down his throat. He was lucky that there were some other riders that were paramedics that saved him from choking to death.

You know, if you think about it, you already have a helmet designed by nature over millions of years. Your skull is designed to protect your brain, what happens when you change the characteristics of the way the skull is designed to protect the brain. I'm just not totally sold on just throwing something around your head and calling "it"s all good". There was a interesting study about how the skin on your skull gives way to protect the more important parts. Was that ever though about when designing helmets? What about the weight of a helmet. What does the added weight of the helmet do in the way of added momentum to the brain and neck in a crash? What about hearing and visibility with a helmet on, how does that effect the chances of getting into a wreck?

Here is a interesting read about helmets.

"However, what scientists ended up finding was that following an IED explosion "shockwaves from a blast hits a helmeted head, and can penetrate the gap between the helmet and head, travel up inside the helmet, and come down on the side of the head facing away from the explosion." This would mean that due to the design of U.S. helmets, more soldiers are suffering from stronger blasts during explosions and increasing their risk of TBI."

You would think a properly designed helmet would be beneficial, but has anyone really designed a proper helmet yet and proved that they have? I bet over the years, they will make great strides in redesigning and improving helmets, they will look back at some of the old designs and call them worthless to downright hazards.

Deron.
 
Studies shmudies, all I need to do is ride down the street and look at the pile of flowers left where a college student was killed riding his bike with no helmet. he smacked a car windshield with his head and died, would he have lived if he was wearing a helmet? my guess is yes.
 
sometimes a helmet doesn't do any good.

http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s224/bluEscort99/Motorcycle%20Hits%20Semi-Trailer/?action=view&current=motorcycle5.jpg

This happened a couple of years ago. Was posted at my preshift meeting.
The idiot was going 120 mph when he hit the truck. The driver said the impact was great enough that he thought he had been rear ended by another semi.
 
ahh, the old, wear a helmet or not wear a helmet argument... a forum topic that often generates some of the more idiotic posts I've ever read in message forums.

I've been a professional firefighter and paramedic for nearly twenty years. During my career, I've responded to more than my fair share of bicycle and motorcycle accidents. I'm not talking studies, its real life.

I wear a helmet when I ride a bicycle. My daughter will never ride a bicycle without a helmet as long as I'm responsible for her wellbeing. My wife works in health care and coincidentally for many years specialized in treating brain injury patients. She too always wears a helmet.

Dieing is not the worse thing that can happen. A brain injury can be terribly devistating, not only to the injured person, but to family as well. The psychological and financial burden is not something I'd ever wish on anyone.
 
I'm mostly pro-helmet. Most of the time I wear one when riding. Either a BMX style hard shell, or one of those holey aero ones when its hot. My kids will NOT EVAR ride without one.. not while I'm around.

Not sure how I feel about the gov'ment telling people they have to wear them.. now thats an involved topic there.

I think I've said this on ES before, but.. One of my friends smacked his head on the curb from falling off his bicycle when we were like maybe 8 years old. He had mild brain damage and wasn't quite the same person afterward. A cheap crappy foamie lid would have saved him and his family a lot of heartache I'm pretty damn confident.

Peripheral vision obstruction, additional weight on the neck, false feeling of security, whatever other negatives a helmet has got- its still worthwhile wearing one IMO. Its a risk management thing, sure there'll be some cases where it wont actually help you, or may actually hurt. I'm not going to deny any of the negatives.. But overall your odds are much better having one on.
 
There is no doubt that a helmet increases your chances of surviving a crash. But it's just not as simple as that with pedal bicycles that have the average speeds of someone sprinting, your biggest danger is getting in the way of a car/bus/truck, or not being seen by one. With helmets there is risk compensation, but more significantly there is the fact that a little bicycle cap doesn't help you that much when your hit by a large vehicle, so it may be better not to bother with a helmet but instead pay a little more attention to the road, and know a little more about what to do and what not to do when in traffic.

I'm definitely pro helmet for kids but not so much for adults. The most important thing is to not get hit in the first place. With experience, knowledge and riding skills you hugely reduce the chances of that happening, just as with driving any vehicle. These are traits adults are more likely to have, especially experience and knowledge. Kids are less likely to have these traits and are less concerned about safety so, just like with driving, they need a good amount of training/teaching before they're gonna be riding the streets alone, and until they have the experience to keep them safer from being hit they should wear helmets.

This is the main reason I think kids should wear helmets. Since there is no license required, and kids can ride bicycles from too young an age, much younger than 16 (the age they would be allowed to drive a car). Making kids wear helmets would discourage them from using the bicycle. Just as compulsory helmet use discourages anybody to use any vehicle.
 
The Stig said:
There is no doubt that a helmet increases your chances of surviving a crash. But it's just not as simple as that with pedal bicycles that have the average speeds of someone sprinting, your biggest danger is getting in the way of a car/bus/truck, or not being seen by one. With helmets there is risk compensation, but more significantly there is the fact that a little bicycle cap doesn't help you that much when your hit by a large vehicle, so it may be better not to bother with a helmet but instead pay a little more attention to the road, and know a little more about what to do and what not to do when in traffic.
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wearing a helmet and paying attention to the road are not mutually exclusive. without that premise your argument falls apart.
 
Toshi said:
The Stig said:
There is no doubt that a helmet increases your chances of surviving a crash. But it's just not as simple as that with pedal bicycles that have the average speeds of someone sprinting, your biggest danger is getting in the way of a car/bus/truck, or not being seen by one. With helmets there is risk compensation, but more significantly there is the fact that a little bicycle cap doesn't help you that much when your hit by a large vehicle, so it may be better not to bother with a helmet but instead pay a little more attention to the road, and know a little more about what to do and what not to do when in traffic.
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wearing a helmet and paying attention to the road are not mutually exclusive. without that premise your argument falls apart.
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Thanks for assuming that. You like to disagree with me don't you. Or you don't want to be wrong. I'm just saying that because you didn't even bother backing your assumption up, or explaining it.
You might be right. If you can explain why your right well enough, I would change my mind...

This is why I think your little assumption "wearing a helmet and paying attention to the road are not mutually exclusive" is wrong:
You can't say "they are mutually exclusive" or "they are not mutually exclusive." It would be quite a bad generalization to say they're not for everyone. They could be for some people. But for most people... Why do you think helmet use discourages bicycling? Its partly because you have to bother with putting it on, taking it off, storing it, finding it, locking it, carrying it, adjusting it etc... Attention/thinking power(whatever you want to call it) is a scarce resource and I know people don't seem to be willing to dedicate too much of that resource to both wearing a helmet and teaching themselves to be a safer rider, and paying better attention to the road. They are "slightly mutually exclusive" and one is more desirable than the other. Avoiding the crash in the first place is better than having a little protection when you crash. Ideally you would be a good rider on the road and wear a helmet but for most people that would make bicycling not worth the trouble. What we really need is safety in numbers, then we would also make more bicycle lanes in cities. We will never achieve that by discouraging cycling.

If my argument still fails in your eyes... Oh well. But if you think everyone should wear a helmet on a bicycle, well, don't forget you have these opponents to discredit as well. Notable academics, practitioners... those types.
 
I'm with Toshi here, you *should* do both. Pay 100% of the attention that you've got, and wear the lid. Not saying I'd want a law enacted to force people to wear helmets tho. If a person doesn't want to, fine. On occasion I dont..

Coming from wearing full face DOT motorcycle helmets, the minimal open face bicycle helmets seem like great light weight compromise between a heavy sweaty lid and nothing at all. Its not perfect but its pretty good for the job. The false sense of security thing is the biggest negative. The rest- weight, comfort, vision, etc.. are piddle imo. But even the false security can be squashed with a little effort.
 
Clearly I also agree that thats the best thing you can do. Wear a helmet and pay 100% attention. As long as everyone can choose for them selves thats fine.

I guess what I don't agree with is people pressuring other people to wear helmets, by saying things like "theres a place on my street where a college student wasn't wearing a helmet and crashed and died. a helmet is a must." "...oh my god you don't wear a helmet... thats so dangerous!" Encouraging helmet use is fine! Saying things to the effect of "a helmet will make you safer in a crash" is fine. But it should also be ok for someone not to wear a helmet. This way bicycling will become more popular and we will sooner have more saftey in numbers, more bike lanes, which will be a far greater benefit to our biking safety than helmets. Just look at holland.
 
The Stig said:
...but more significantly there is the fact that a little bicycle cap doesn't help you that much when your hit by a large vehicle...
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That simply is not true in many if not most such accidents I've responded to.

The vast majority of injury related bicycle accidents I've responded to do not involve a motor vehicle at all. Most that did involve a motor vehicle, the cyclist was thrown onto the hood and windshield before being dumped to the ground. Those riders without helmets almost always suffer an impact to their head. Those with helmets almost always have some significant indication that the helmet was subjected to a significant impact.

Bones heal, cuts heal, abrasions heal, brain damage is permanent and can be terribly debilitating. There is no good reason to not wear an appropriate helmet.
 
v_tach said:
The Stig said:
...but more significantly there is the fact that a little bicycle cap doesn't help you that much when your hit by a large vehicle...
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That simply is not true in many if not most such accidents I've responded to.

The vast majority of injury related bicycle accidents I've responded to do not involve a motor vehicle at all. Most that did involve a motor vehicle, the cyclist was thrown onto the hood and windshield before being dumped to the ground. Those riders without helmets almost always suffer an impact to their head. Those with helmets almost always have some significant indication that the helmet was subjected to a significant impact.

Bones heal, cuts heal, abrasions heal, brain damage is permanent and can be terribly debilitating. There is no good reason to not wear an appropriate helmet.
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We may have different views on these figures as I base my opinions on some of the national statistics I've read and you base your opinions on your observations on some of the subjects of these statistics that are in tampa bay.

The statistics I will be quoting so from a pro-helmet compulsion site http://www.helmets.org/stats.htm

v_tach said:
The Stig said:
...a little bicycle cap doesn't help you that much when your hit by a large vehicle...
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That simply is not true...
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700 bicyclists died on US roads in 2007. Over 90 percent died in crashes with motor vehicles.
They estimate helmet use to be: "our best wild guess is probably no more than 25 per cent." This is quite low...
However studies in Australia where helmet compulsion laws were imposed concluded that there was no clear reduction in bicyclist deaths after helmet use vastly increased from 31% to 75%. They were able to conclude, however, that this law caused people to give up their bicycles which in turn "may have generated a net loss of health benefits to the nation."

v_tach said:
The vast majority of injury related bicycle accidents I've responded to do not involve a motor vehicle at all.
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Well that may be perfectly true... but nationally, the vast majority of injury related bicycle accidents also do not involve brain injuries at all. 12.5% "1 in 8 of the cyclists with reported injuries had a brain injury."

v_tach said:
Most that did involve a motor vehicle, the cyclist was thrown onto the hood and windshield before being dumped to the ground. Those riders without helmets almost always suffer an impact to their head. Those with helmets almost always have some significant indication that the helmet was subjected to a significant impact.
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They almost always suffer "impact" to the head. THAT carries implications because we may not realize that does not mean they had any brain injury, or that they would have had a brain injury. I regularly suffer impacts to my head while playing sports like soccer. I'm guessing that your implying that an impact will cause a brain injury to most who aren't wearing a helmet. This is a fair assumption based on what that website estimates "brain injuries can be prevented by a helmet, estimated at anywhere from 45 to 88 per cent." However they do not report the proportion of motor vehicle accidents that involved a brain injury.

There is NO GOOD REASON not to wear a helmet. But there is also NO GOOD REASON to discourage cycling. Helmet compulsion discourages cycling, it's been established. Please don't do it. it just gets to me. I want more cyclists along side me in more cycle lanes. Eventually, the gain in safety from "safety in numbers" and bike lanes will be greater than any safety gain any helmet supporter ever dreamed of. So lets just think a little more long term, and a little less selfishly. Just encourage cycling if you want more safety for all cyclists... ENCOURAGE, not discourage. ENCOURAGE, not discourage......

Cycling is safer per mile than walking. That makes sense doesn't it... I hope I don't need to bring in the sources on that one. So to someone who wants to cycle a short commute instead of walking it, but like most people don't want to wear a helmet. Would you pressure them to wear a helmet, therefore pressuring them to do the more dangerous thing and walk?
 
I started to wear a helmet when bicycling after having broken two SNELL 90 motorcycle helmets and taken a few rocks while on belay wearing the MSR climbing helmet I shared with my climbing buddy. Whoever was leading the pitch gave the helmet to the guy on belay because if you cleaned the pitch in a fall, the helmet was not likely to do you much good upon landing.
Bicycle helmets have split in half being merely tossed onto the floor.
I trust my ears, eyes, and judgement based on experience more than any helmet to keep me safe.
In the data, a scratched chin or cut ear are counted as "head injuries" as much as a scraped scalp, minor concussion or permanent brain damage resulting from trauma. The hype surrounding bicycle helmets it myth, fabrication and pure bunk.
When I broke my leg I could have gotten a concussion by landing on my ass after trying to stand. No helmet in the world would have protected me against that yet a brain injury would have been ascribed to my having not worn a helmet at the time.
My attitude toward helmets is wear one if you want but as long as you're not suicidal, you'll probably never need it.
Claims that "a helmet saved my life" are mostly exaggerations because a toque would have given them the required protection.
I wear a helmet because I believe it makes me more visible. The main benefit of a helmet is that its a good place for sticking reflective tape.
I live in a Mandatory Helmet Law jurisdiction so I wear my "pig chaser" mostly for luck. I resent the law because I'd already been regularly wearing a helmet for more than two decades before the law was enacted. . . and never used it.

Bicycling isn't a dangerous activity and it does us no good to pretend that it is.
 
v_tach said:
That simply is not true in many if not most such accidents I've responded to.

<snip>

Bones heal, cuts heal, abrasions heal, brain damage is permanent and can be terribly debilitating. There is no good reason to not wear an appropriate helmet.
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What about all the head injuries you see on vehicle occupants and pedestrians? Do you think they should wear helmets also? After all, there is no good reason not to wear a helmet...

It's all about risk management. For me the odds of getting a head injury on a bicycle that a styrofoam hat would prevent are close to nil. Others may ride in such a way that their odds are higher but that doesn't change how useful (or not) a helmet would be for me.

There is a good reason not to wear a helmet. I know people who find them so uncomfortable that they would stop riding if they were forced to wear one. Not riding at all is a lot worse than riding without a helmet.
 
The Stig said:
They almost always suffer "impact" to the head. THAT carries implications because we may not realize that does not mean they had any brain injury, or that they would have had a brain injury.
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The only implication is an impact to the head could lead to a brain injury.

I have a fair amount of experience dealing with the pre-hospital care of traumatic brain injury victims. An interesting coincidence to their injury is an impact to the head.

I don't really care for laws that force adults to wear a helmet if they choose not to. Although I also don't care for my tax dollars going toward the long term care of those that suffer traumatic brain injuries during an activity that may have been prevented if the injured person would have been wearing a helmet and that activity is commonly associated with such risk.

As long as it presents no burden to anyone else, I care not what others do.
 
v_tach said:
The Stig said:
They almost always suffer "impact" to the head. THAT carries implications because we may not realize that does not mean they had any brain injury, or that they would have had a brain injury.
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The only implication is an impact to the head could lead to a brain injury.

I have a fair amount of experience dealing with the pre-hospital care of traumatic brain injury victims. An interesting coincidence to their injury is an impact to the head.

I don't really care for laws that force adults to wear a helmet if they choose not to. Although I also don't care for my tax dollars going toward the long term care of those that suffer traumatic brain injuries during an activity that may have been prevented if the injured person would have been wearing a helmet and that activity is commonly associated with such risk.

As long as it presents no burden to anyone else, I care not what others do.
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Cost-wise:
I agree that tax dollars could be saved if people avoided brain injuries by wearing helmets. But shall we talk about the billions we might save if more people biked their short trips rather than drove? First lets identify one of the main reason people drive rather than bike for short trips. Its all the hype about the risks of cycling, having to wear helmets, the extra dangers involved in cycling, and being told they have to wear a helmet because it's dangerous. If cycling wasn't discouraged like this maybe a lot more people would cycle instead of drive. With less cars and more bicycles on the road overall safety for road users will increase as a "cyclist will be ten times less likely to kill another road user than a driver."(http://www.cyclinginstructor.com/cy...F80257177004D9A87/$FILE/c2014.pdf?OpenElement) Imagine how much less likely a cyclist is to injure another road user than a driver. How about how much less damage bicycles cause to other road vehicles, and the road it's self. Cars cause many times more damage to the road per mile than bicycles. This damage translates to maintenance costs.
That is mostly my humble opinion.

Here's a peer reviewed article if that helps: http://www.citeulike.org/user/mokgand/article/967579
The abstract:
Debate continues over bicycle helmet laws. Proponents argue that case-control studies of voluntary wearing show helmets reduce head injuries. Opponents argue, even when legislation substantially increased percent helmet wearing, there was no obvious response in percentages of cyclist hospital admissions with head injury--trends for cyclists were virtually identical to those of other road users. Moreover, enforced laws discourage cycling, increasing the costs to society of obesity and lack of exercise and reducing overall safety of cycling through reduced safety in numbers. Countries with low helmet wearing have more cyclists and lower fatality rates per kilometre.Cost-benefit analyses are a useful tool to determine if interventions are worthwhile. The two published cost-benefit analyses of helmet law data found that the cost of buying helmets to satisfy legislation probably exceeded any savings in reduced head injuries. Analyses of other road safety measures, e.g. reducing speeding and drink-driving or treating accident blackspots, often show that benefits are significantly greater than costs. Assuming all parties agree that helmet laws should not be implemented unless benefits exceed costs, agreement is needed on how to derive monetary values for the consequences of helmet laws, including changes in injury rates, cycle-use and enjoyment of cycling. Suggestions are made concerning the data and methodology needed to help clarify the issue, e.g. relating pre- and post-law surveys of cycle use to numbers with head and other injuries and ensuring that trends are not confused with effects of increased helmet wearing.
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It even talks about the costs to society from increased obesity due to helmet compulsion. Of course we're not talking about helmet compulsion here but we're talking about helmet hype.
 
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