What sort of battery would be in the Koenigsegg Regera?

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Scottydog

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I was just watching this vid and the numbers on the hybrid battery seem unbelievable!

4.5kWh battery pack, can draw 520kW. (weighs 90kg which is heavy, but the power seems nuts!)

This is the specs on the normal older version which still seems stupid!

The battery pack and PDU for the KDD were developed and manufactured together with Electric Supercar virtuoso Mate Rimac and his engineering team. The 620 V battery pack is of the latest fully flooded type and is the most power-dense battery pack ever created for a road going car with 9,27 kWh of energy, 67 liters of volume, and 115kg of weight. Still, a full 500 kW can momentarily be drawn during acceleration and over 150 kW can be absorbed by the battery-pack during regenerative braking and ICE power generation mode.

Battery tech is at 3:30 in vid.

[youtube]eiuCG6qmPc4[/youtube]




 
F1 spec cells,...so unlikely to be anything we have seen.
Probably some of the secret spec SAFT cells , or from A123 or Xalt Energy, ...all are known to be used in F1
But, the power is not too spectacular, 115C for a few secs,..the guys drag racing with RC packs can do more than that.
And just how far is that shiny thing going to drive on 4.5 kWhr ?....lucky to get 20 miles ..driving slowly.
I doubt it could make one lap of TG' s track with the Stig driving ! :lol:
 
Its got a 5 liter V8 twin turbo onboard battery charger.
 
gogo said:
Its got a 5 liter V8 twin turbo onboard battery charger.
Click to expand...

ACK! A gas/diseasal-powered "electric" vehicle???

:cry:
 
Scottydog said:
The 620 V battery pack is of the latest fully flooded type and is the most power-dense battery pack ever created for a road going car
Click to expand...

This is the curve ball and implies it's not li-ion unlike the super Saft/F1 cells.
 
Punx0r said:
Scottydog said:
The 620 V battery pack is of the latest fully flooded type and is the most power-dense battery pack ever created for a road going car
Click to expand...

This is the curve ball and implies it's not li-ion unlike the super Saft/F1 cells.
Click to expand...

Lithium sulphur perhaps?
 
Hillhater said:
the power is not too spectacular, 115C for a few secs,..the guys drag racing with RC packs can do more than that.
Click to expand...

Aside from "citation needed" I'd proffer that those are comparable applications. Pulling an RC cell down to ~1.5V a few times before scrapping it isn't the same as a car pack validated for a lifetime of use and offered with a warranty.
 
Punx0r said:
Hillhater said:
the power is not too spectacular, 115C for a few secs,..the guys drag racing with RC packs can do more than that.
Click to expand...

Aside from "citation needed" I'd proffer that those are comparable applications. Pulling an RC cell down to ~1.5V a few times before scrapping it isn't the same as a car pack validated for a lifetime of use and offered with a warranty.
Click to expand...

I was playing with my 18650 assembly spreadsheet and didn't look like any of the combinations would match the number mentioned in the vid. I had the Samsung per cell set at 90amps and still didn't seem high enough with a pack set at 620V and matching kWh. :shock:
 
Punx0r said:
Scottydog said:
The 620 V battery pack is of the latest fully flooded type and is the most power-dense battery pack ever created for a road going car
Click to expand...

This is the curve ball and implies it's not li-ion unlike the super Saft/F1 cells.
Click to expand...
Some F1 and all FE packs use Li pouch cells in a fully flooded housing .
No Commercial 18650's is capable of this performance .
 
i dont get it , what is so special here?
9.27kWh weights 115kg = 80Wh/kg battery , am i wrong ?
 
Not wrong at all.
Infact the "new" pack is 4.5kWhr and 90kg...50Whr/kg !
BUT...it's the ability to pump out 520kW ..(115C) that was being highlited .
riba2233... The FE packs built by Williams , and some of their F1 packs , use Xalt Energy Lipo cells....of some type !
http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2014/october/tech-focus-williams-battery-technology.aspx
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-explained-how-the-koenigsegg-regera-hypercar-drives-without-a-gearbox/
 
A 115C-rate cell at 50Wh/kg is identical power density to a 200Wh/kg cell with a 29C-rate.

The 200Wh/kg cell 29C option just also happens to store 4x more energy to deliver that same 500kW discharge for 4x longer etc.

Also keep in mind the F1 KERS program has a bunch of rules to ensure the intentionally crippled electronic part of the drivetrain doesn't out shine the oil company sponsored poison sprayers. Due to these silly rules, it makes sense for them to always under rate a cells capacity on the spec sheet.
 
The 50 Whr / kg is derived from TOTAL pack weight..IE includes all components, casing,cooling system, and coolant.
Certainly the FE pack contains 200kg of cells for its 30 kWhr capacity..150W/kg at cell level., and those packs are designed for capacity as they only run a max of 250/300kW (10C)
The F1 packs are only 25kg ( 5 kWhr ?). and can discharge 150kW (30C), but have to withstand high regen charging at a similar rate (30+C), and discharging repeatedly for 2 hours of the race...hence the cooling requirement.
 
Hillhater said:
Not wrong at all.
Infact the "new" pack is 4.5kWhr and 90kg...50Whr/kg !
BUT...it's the ability to pump out 520kW ..(115C) that was being highlited .
riba2233... The FE packs built by Williams , and some of their F1 packs , use Xalt Energy Lipo cells....of some type !
http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2014/october/tech-focus-williams-battery-technology.aspx
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-explained-how-the-koenigsegg-regera-hypercar-drives-without-a-gearbox/
Click to expand...

That's the point for sure, not the weight but the power!

I just threw some numbers into my 18650 sheet, which I think is right.

So using the Samsung 25R would be

175S 3P to get the 630V and 4.7 kWh pack. Each cell would have to do 265 amps that would get the 800 amp total pack power! :shock:
 
Hillhater said:
Some F1 and all FE packs use Li pouch cells in a fully flooded housing .
Click to expand...

Do you mean the pouch cells are immersed in liquid coolant? That would certainly be a flooded battery and not the flooded cell construction I was imagining...
 
there is no point comparing these battery to 18650 cells . i dont know any 18650 cells with very high discharge rate capability .
but regular rc lipo can discharge at more than 70c happily with no issues , and they are higher wh/kg .
newer graphene lipo can discharge at 115c for short bursts with no issues also , and it has higher wh/kg and high cycle life .

a123 F1 kers cells are ahr18700 .
http://www.ebaracus.com/product/a123-ahr18700-f1-kers-cells

i still dont see anything special with this koenigsegg battery . other technologies on that car are much more fascinating then the battery cells .
 
sss said:
newer graphene lipo can discharge at 115c for short bursts with no issues also , and it has higher wh/kg and high cycle life .
Click to expand...

Unless independent and reliable testing has been done, those are just unsubstantiated claims by HobbyKing marketing.
 
Scottydog said:
Hillhater said:
Not wrong at all.
Infact the "new" pack is 4.5kWhr and 90kg...50Whr/kg !
BUT...it's the ability to pump out 520kW ..(115C) that was being highlited .
riba2233... The FE packs built by Williams , and some of their F1 packs , use Xalt Energy Lipo cells....of some type !
http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2014/october/tech-focus-williams-battery-technology.aspx
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-explained-how-the-koenigsegg-regera-hypercar-drives-without-a-gearbox/
Click to expand...

That's the point for sure, not the weight but the power!

I just threw some numbers into my 18650 sheet, which I think is right.

So using the Samsung 25R would be

175S 3P to get the 630V and 4.7 kWh pack. Each cell would have to do 265 amps that would get the 800 amp total pack power! :shock:
Click to expand...


So, in the case of the 25r, if you simply say it's a 0.5Ah cell rather than 2.5Ah cell, and then only shallow cycle the lowest impedance portion of the cells capacity to really make it a 0.5Ah capacity cell, the numbers suddenly look much more feasible.
 
Yes, and these (F1) cells only ever see "pulse" loads and charge rates, never more than a few seconds, so very shallow cycles. Not a lot of experience of that type of cell performance outside the teams or battery labs !
 
You could build a 90kg pack from Samsung 30Q's - it would be good for 240kW burst power. But also 20kWh capacity not 5kWh.
So basically, the cells they are using are only double the power density of Samsung 30Q's, but at 1/4 the capacity.
 
okashira said:
You could build a 90kg pack from Samsung 30Q's - it would be good for 240kW burst power. But also 20kWh capacity not 5kWh.
So basically, the cells they are using are only double the power density of Samsung 30Q's, but at 1/4 the capacity.
Click to expand...

I can think of current production hybrid cars with batteries that meet konig's egg spec. For example, GS Yusawa EH5 cell. Each cell is 280g, but with a DCIR of about 0.0025 Ohm, good for 500A or so burst. That would put in the ballpark of power density of the F1 cells

Another bonus is it's designed to last 15 years and 40,000 cycles 8)
 
okashira said:
You could build a 90kg pack from Samsung 30Q's - it would be good for 240kW burst power. But also 20kWh capacity not 5kWh.
So basically, the cells they are using are only double the power density of Samsung 30Q's, but at 1/4 the capacity.
Click to expand...


Yes, well stated.
 
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