what vehicle would you want if/when society collapses?

Our society is already collapsing now; it just takes longer than you think. For this stage, cars work fine. As the collapse gets deeper, fueling a car will become too expensive for most folks, who will have less money for the basics by then. We'll see a gradual changeover to small city cars, scooters, electrics, light electrics, and human power, with a concurrent retraction into residential areas that have public transit and life support nearby.

Natural disasters or acts of war could cause the kinds of social disorder you envision, but probably not everywhere at once. If you plan for alien invasion or meteor strike, you'll be unready for the things that are far more likely to actually occur.

If you want to see what real collapse and its aftermath looks like, look at Russia. Ours will be deeper, physical resources scarcer and more expensive, and the American people less accepting of the changes in conditions. But you probably won't need any anti-zombie weaponry or a half-track camper van. More than anything, you'll need a versatile mindset.

Chalo

ark_2.jpg
 
^^^How could a girl that pretty have kids that ugly?





A chimp trained to kill and steal... that's the ticket.

Better yet, an army of them to carry me around (and kill and steal). :twisted:

(Hey, it worked for Cheney.)
 
Kent said:
I for one would not want to live in a bunker or behind steel plate. I think it is possible to still have a reasonably decent life style even with societies collapse. " Back to the landers" have been advocating a self-sufficient lifestyle for decades. At the root of all this- for many- has been the basic belief that society in its current course was unsustainable and headed for an inevitable collapse. I agree.

Their focus was/is on getting a piece of property away from it all and being as self-reliant as possible. This still can be done, but it takes perserverance, hard work and being extremely adaptable. It also helps if you are more than easy driving distance-more than a tankful- from a major metro city. Maine sounds good. Or how about Alaska? :?

AS far as transport goes, yes the basic bike. And in my view, old technology which has less to break and can easily be fixed. Yes the Honda 90. My 35 year old Datsun has a carb and points. Bread and butter. If it has spark, gas and a point gap, it should run. And can easily be worked on and trouble shooted.

Modern vehicles, even our electric bikes, are prone to electronic failure. No parts. No luck. One good solar flare, and all our gizmos with their electronic black boxes-including our solar panels- are dead. But on the bright side, some experiments in the third world have offfered alternatives. For years, India has been running vehicles off of cow power-methane gas. These are small scale, local independent farmers who have an abundance of manure. After the gas is captured, it needs to be compressed, so I guess a small compressor running off an inverter would do. Same as a basic propane conversion. You could also hook up a propane fridge, stove and lights.

"Gun Digest" or "Mother Earth News"? I personally would rather embrace a more optomistic approach to our future-even if it does mean living back in with some funcky "backwards" technology. I lived for 10 years "back in" without electricity or a modern bathroom. A hand pump on the well, a battery powering the TV/stereo, and propane appliances. It can be done.

Right now, I'd rather spend my thoughts and energy towards building a better world for our kids rather than thinking about guns, bunkers, and steel plate.

But the main thread and the previous posters are right. What happens when millions of people hit the road in a panic heading out from the city...self sufficient folks with stockpiles of food and independent forms of transport would be on the endangered list...Make sure you are way back in!

I agree with everything you said there. The problem lies in setting up this place way back in, while simultaneously existing in the still currently functional society. The land I'm looking at is not >1 tankfull away from houston, because I will have to go there regularly, after work some days, on the weekends, for upkeep & whatnot. I plan to start farming it immediately in my spare time so I can learn through trial & error & be ready when the time comes instead of trying to learn it all in a day when my life & my family's life depends on it. I cannot #1 afford the land itself, or #2 afford the things necessary to develop it, without working a regular job concurrently. So, dropping everything and retreating to the most remote part of America is not an option for me. I plan to make my place as inconspicuous as possible; no razor wire fences, no big house with lights blazing long after power is out. I will be in the danger zone and I hope to exist there quietly, but that may not be possible, which is why I wanted to have an out; a vehicle already loaded up with a little civilization starter kit so I can get out to someplace way back in, in a moment's notice. At that point I could probably squat wherever I want, or at least not have much trouble finding a place.
 
Society isn't going to collapse. We have one of the most politically stable nations in the world, and all the angry hate-filled junk on the radio and TV (and online) won't change that.

The biggest problem with our society is the opposite: our government continues to grow and grow and collects more and more power. This is not a liberal thing. It's a government thing.

It grew under Clinton, Bush Jr. and Obama. That's a fact. We can point fingers and say it grew more under Bush (Patriot Act, Homeland Security, color-code system, No Child Left Behind, doubling of the military budget, huge bailouts, etc.) or point fingers at Obama (largest annual deficits in history, huge bailouts, etc.).

But the fact remains that our government is and will continue to get bigger and more powerful with each administration (but only half the country is upset about it at a time, depending on if it's an R government growing or a D government growing).


That said, I'll take a large collection of mountain bikes or dual sport motorcycles....maybe a Jeep.


But I don't want to live in the Mad Max world. I like civilization.
 
On a similar note to what others said, I think the best thing would be to avoid people.

In the Tom Cruise remake of War of the Worlds, I kept thinking, "why does that family keep gravitating toward large groups of people?"

Shouldn't they have stayed put at the house that got hit by an airplane? The aliens would have passed through and then they could wait it out a couple weeks.


The story line just didn't make sense. Each time they got out of a jam, they went back toward where a lot of people were, only to get back into another jam as the aliens looked for large groups of people.



I'd live in the mountains, grow a big beard, tame a grizzly bear, and get supplies and news brought in occasionally from Uncle Jessie.
 
I dunno Mike… I’m a social creature and would want to barter with my neighbors (presuming I’m not forced to eat them as a zombie), and pool resources. Collaboration is effective if we can just get along. Anarchy presumes we don’t/won't/can't.

BTW - You are… um, looking pretty tasty :twisted: :wink:

Pass the salt, KF
 
MikeFairbanks said:
Society isn't going to collapse. . . our government continues to grow and grow and collects more and more power. This is not a liberal thing. It's a government thing.

It grew under Clinton, Bush Jr. and Obama. That's a fact. We can point fingers and say it grew more under Bush (Patriot Act, Homeland Security, color-code system, No Child Left Behind, doubling of the military budget, huge bailouts, etc.) or point fingers at Obama (largest annual deficits in history, huge bailouts, etc.).

The funny thing is, you engage in the behavior that I consider big government's best friend: You gloss over with the vague statement and avoid addressing the truth of it.

The truth being that the always vocal Ronald Reagan coalition refuse to admit that it was Reagan that did more building of big government than all 3 that you named. They want to pretend he was against the things that he personally brought about. more than tripling the national debt in 8 years, desensitizing people to so many issues, the only job growth being state and local government jobs, (2 out of 3 hires in the Reagan years were by the Federal Government) etc. It didn't really have serious growth under Clinton. But statements of the absolute facts puts people off, they'd rather make the vague complaints and leave it at that.

Which is why, January 2010, that idiot Barbara Boxer felt free to let loose with the most foollish, cackling laugh in a life interview on KNX radio in LA. When told of the huge opinion against the Obamacare and noone wanting it, she demonstrated why the LA Times says she lacks the intellect to be a Senator (You might remember her getting mad at an Admiral for saying 'Ma'am.') by laughing as she said government is here to force people do do whatever it wants. But why didn't the republican party hit her over the head with it during the election that was just starting up? Because they, too, wanted government to be about making everyone do what IT wants. As low as the opinion of Boxer has always been, she once again was able to be reelected because the republicans complacently nominated a completely unelectable candidate to run against her.

That said, I'll take a large collection of mountain bikes or dual sport motorcycles....maybe a Jeep.

But I don't want to live in the Mad Max world. I like civilization.

I guess that all depends on what you think a 'Mad Max' world is. In the first film he's in the calm city, it's the occasional freak from the desert that livens things up. The second and third are about people trying to get to the civilized city, while he's so lost in despair he avoids it. I took those films as meaning it's already a 'Mad Max' world, we're just living in RallySTX's 'Easier areas of Armageddon.' The whole reason some people argue we've been fighting World War III for 40-50 years is because there's always been parts of the world that have been rather Armageddon-like, though there was a lull under Clinton. 'Kony 2012' won't accomplish anything, but they'll feel better because THEY were talking.

If you don't want to bother reading, you can watch a video of it. (Narrated by the actual voice that would make famous the Broadway songs 'If I were a Rich Man' and 'TRADITION.') I'll link it so you can at least read the comments. Oh boy. I guess I could also post 'The Monsters are due on Maple Street.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEPSIAkmzAE

. . . .with no voice there
to cry "Stay!" ... for me in the empty square.


THE HANGMAN

By Maurice Ogden
Into our town the hangman came,
smelling of gold and blood and flame.
He paced our bricks with a different air,
and built his frame on the courthouse square.

The scaffold stood by the courthouse side,
only as wide as the door was wide
with a frame as tall, or a little more,
than the capping sill of the courthouse door.

And we wondered whenever we had the time,
Who the criminal? What the crime?
The hangman judged with the yellow twist
of knotted hemp in his busy fist.

And innocent though we were with dread,
we passed those eyes of buckshot lead.
Till one cried, "Hangman, who is he,
for whom you raised the gallows-tree?"

Then a twinkle grew in his buckshot eye
and he gave a riddle instead of reply.
"He who serves me best," said he
"Shall earn the rope on the gallows-tree."

And he stepped down and laid his hand
on a man who came from another land.
And we breathed again, for anothers grief
at the hangmans hand, was our relief.

And the gallows frame on the courthouse lawn
by tomorrow's sun would be struck and gone.
So we gave him way and no one spoke
out of respect for his hangmans cloak.

The next day's sun looked mildly down
on roof and street in our quiet town;
and stark and black in the morning air
the gallows-tree on the courthouse square.

And the hangman stood at his usual stand
with the yellow hemp in his busy hand.
With his buckshot eye and his jaw like a pike,
and his air so knowing and business-like.

And we cried, "Hangman, have you not done,
yesterday with the alien one?"
Then we fell silent and stood amazed.
"Oh, not for him was the gallows raised."

He laughed a laugh as he looked at us,
"Do you think I've gone to all this fuss,
To hang one man? That's the thing I do.
To stretch the rope when the rope is new."

Above our silence a voice cried "Shame!"
and into our midst the hangman came;
to that mans place, "Do you hold," said he,
"With him that was meat for the gallows-tree?"

He laid his hand on that one's arm
and we shrank back in quick alarm.
We gave him way, and no one spoke,
out of fear of the hangmans cloak.

That night we saw with dread surprise
the hangmans scaffold had grown in size.
Fed by the blood beneath the chute,
the gallows-tree had taken root.

Now as wide, or a little more
than the steps that led to the courthouse door.
As tall as the writing, or nearly as tall,
half way up on the courthouse wall.

The third he took, we had all heard tell,
was a usurer..., an infidel.
And "What" said the hangman, "Have you to do
with the gallows-bound..., and he a Jew?"

And we cried out, "Is this one he
who has served you well and faithfully?"
The hangman smiled, "It's a clever scheme
to try the strength of the gallows beam."

The fourth man's dark accusing song
had scratched our comfort hard and long.
"And what concern," he gave us back,
"Have you ... for the doomed and black?"

The fifth, the sixth, and we cried again,
"Hangman, hangman, is this the man?"
"It's a trick", said he, "that we hangman know
for easing the trap when the trap springs slow."

And so we ceased and asked now more
as the hangman tallied his bloody score.
And sun by sun, and night by night
the gallows grew to monstrous height.

The wings of the scaffold opened wide
until they covered the square from side to side.
And the monster cross beam looking down,
cast its shadow across the town.

Then through the town the hangman came
and called through the empy streets...my name.
I looked at the gallows soaring tall
and thought ... there's no one left at all

for hanging ... and so he called to me
to help take down the gallows-tree.
And I went out with right good hope
to the hangmans tree and the hangmans rope.

He smiled at me as I came down
to the courthouse square...through the silent town.
Supple and stretched in his busy hand,
was the yellow twist of hempen strand.

He whistled his tune as he tried the trap
and it sprang down with a ready snap.
Then with a smile of awful command,
He laid his hand upon my hand.

"You tricked me Hangman." I shouted then,
"That your scaffold was built for other men,
and I'm no henchman of yours." I cried.
"You lied to me Hangman, foully lied."

Then a twinkle grew in his buckshot eye,
"Lied to you...tricked you?" He said "Not I...
for I answered straight and told you true.
The scaffold was raised for none but you."

"For who has served more faithfully?
With your coward's hope." said He,
"And where are the others that might have stood
side by your side, in the common good?"

"Dead!" I answered, and amiably
"Murdered," the Hangman corrected me.
"First the alien ... then the Jew.
I did no more than you let me do."

Beneath the beam that blocked the sky
none before stood so alone as I.
The Hangman then strapped me...with no voice there
to cry "Stay!" ... for me in the empty square.
 
MikeFairbanks said:
Society isn't going to collapse. We have one of the most politically stable nations in the world, and all the angry hate-filled junk on the radio and TV (and online) won't change that.
I respectfully disagree.
MikeFairbanks said:
The biggest problem with our society is the opposite: our government continues to grow and grow and collects more and more power. This is not a liberal thing. It's a government thing.

It grew under Clinton, Bush Jr. and Obama. That's a fact. We can point fingers and say it grew more under Bush (Patriot Act, Homeland Security, color-code system, No Child Left Behind, doubling of the military budget, huge bailouts, etc.) or point fingers at Obama (largest annual deficits in history, huge bailouts, etc.).

But the fact remains that our government is and will continue to get bigger and more powerful with each administration (but only half the country is upset about it at a time, depending on if it's an R government growing or a D government growing).


That said, I'll take a large collection of mountain bikes or dual sport motorcycles....maybe a Jeep.


But I don't want to live in the Mad Max world. I like civilization.
I totally agree. I won't waste time arguing over who's at fault; that's just a distraction from the fact. The way I see it, Partisan parties are for civilians; in the government, everybody's on the same side - the side where the money is. Policies for sale to the highest bidder. hell, the whole govt and the whole country is owned by a private entity since 1913. The government grows a little more every day, pushing the agendas of the ones who pay them - private entities with lots of money. It's nuts, and I want no part of it.
 
Read "The Patriot" It's a novel about America's collapse and a small group of survivalists who had prepared for it. I personally hope the pole's reverse on the 21st of Dec. and we're all thown out into space. That way we all go together.
 
The sun will eventually go supernova, the populace will eventually despoil the land and water, [as if we haven't already,] and sooner or later some TOOL will eventually start a war or release a bug that does us all in. I can't control those things, but I watch and listen. I prey for our children, remember the past, and hope for a future for us among the stars. I miss my 6.2 diesel van.
PHOT0003-1.jpg
I will find another one if I can. I thought Spacey looked tasty, til I learned he was a man. :oops: Want my advice? BE THE BEST YOU CAN!
Brian L.
 
That better not be a freudian slip.

re the OP
"what vehicle would you want if/when society collapses?" Ebikes of several types with solar panels for charging.
 
RallySTX said:
I miss my 6.2 diesel van.

Is that 6.2 metres long or m3 space capacity or engine size in litres, either way thats one big van,
as already suggested good walking boots, bicycle, ebicycle, motor trail bike, or one of those daihatsu diesel rocky or suzuki sierra 4wd should get you around or theres a guy here selling a ford truck complete with solar panels fully kitted workshop style, one that you could easily live in
 
To live in fear is such a shame.
I too see the folly.
Life is short, don't be lame.
I prefer good cheer and everyone jolly.


But If I must, it would be Doc's Delorean :mrgreen:
 
Funny that nobody has said the word horse yet. What a bunch of techno nerds we are. Unfortunately where I live, if society breaks down, so does the truck that brings your horse some hay. Even in 1840, it was sketchy to try to cross the Jornada del Muerta. Now my house is at the southern end of it. Oh well, if I had a horse, riding to the spaceport at the other end of the journey of death wouldn't do much good.

Mo betta plan, ride the honda 90 to the nearest place there is some grazing, then steal a horse there. Well, maybe not, since the nearest place would be where the Mescalero Apache tribe lives. You know them, decended from Geronimos band.

Basicly, if the shit hits the fan, I'm living in the wrong place.
 
Pick up "5 Acres and Independence", by Maurice Kains...still in print, a book written in the 30s and banned because the govt. wanted people to modernize, not live the agrarian life. Kains was with the Dept of Ag at one time, recommended how to garden, keep goats or a dairy cow (Ayrshire were his fav. as I recall...haven't seen the book in 30 years), build a privy, etc. etc. This was long before the back to the country movement in the 60's and the Whole Earth magazine and catalogues, but the idea was the same. I did something pretty darn close to this in the 60s, then did an about face and went to dental school, but I could still do it. Running water and inside toilets are over-rated and goat tastes just fine. You will need electricity for your e-bike though.
 
dkw12002 said:
Pick up "5 Acres and Independence", by Maurice Kains...still in print, a book written in the 30s and banned because the govt. wanted people to modernize, not live the agrarian life.
The govt. can do that? I googled but could not find any reference to the book being banned. Do you have a link?

dkw12002 said:
Running water and inside toilets are over-rated...
Are you kidding? Definitely NOT overrated for me.
 
The info about it being banned was part of the jacket or the back cover in my copy from 30 years ago when the book became un-banned and was then for sale again since I had bought it. It was originally written in the 1930s. Actually, it also talks about acquiring land and what to pay for it etc. ( $5 an acre or so as I recall) so it is more of a curiosity I suppose, but it was one of the first books to address giving up the rat race to move back to the country. Actually, when I grew up, most of of the country still had no electricity or phones or indoor plumbing, so just moving to the country put you into a pretty primitive existence. I do not recall any discussion of trucks or cars, but a horse was only a good idea if it was a horse for plowing and not a pleasure horse.
 
Be funny to see somebody try that here. Takes 50 acres to support one jackrabbit. Just about have to cross the Mississippi river before 5 acres can grow your food.
 
You could homestead 5 acres in the East and Midwest. Kains died in 1946 at the age of 77. He had taught at Penn State. I'm from Indiana where many rural people had/have big gardens and a dairy cow, did their own butchering and canning and bought very little at the store. The electrification of rural America came about in the 40s mostly in Indiana. Wabash, Indiana was the first city in the US to have electric lights (Mar. 31, 1880). "In the U. S. in 1930, only 10% of farms had electricity. Partly through the establishment of the Rural Electric Administration (REA) in 1935, the percentage of farms with electricity increased to 33% in 1940. Farms were electrified in Europe before the U.S." from Wikipedia. My vehicle of choice would be a motorcycle for escaping, but a bicycle if there were no gas or electricity at all. Then I would go to the country. I have my place already picked out, and I ain't sayin where neither.
 
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