What's the current maximum speed for electrical pedal bike?
- Thread starter ajtest
- Start date
Drunkskunk
100 GW
I know Luke has broken 110mph/177kph in the quarter mile. That was probably the record for an entire day.
The original definition of a motorcycle was a bicycle with a motor on it. So at what point do these hyper speed ebikes stop being bicycles and simply become electric motorcycles? As far as I'm concerned, Luke's ebike is a bicycle because he says it is. But Guinness might have some standing definition of "electrically assisted pedal cycle" that would disqualify most hyper ebikes.
The original definition of a motorcycle was a bicycle with a motor on it. So at what point do these hyper speed ebikes stop being bicycles and simply become electric motorcycles? As far as I'm concerned, Luke's ebike is a bicycle because he says it is. But Guinness might have some standing definition of "electrically assisted pedal cycle" that would disqualify most hyper ebikes.
As they are a commercial organisation you'll probably not be too surprised to hear that the Guinness people want a minimum of £3,000 before they will consider saying or doing anything.
My view is that the bike should be able to be pedaled normally and be no different from how it was prior to electrification with respect to drag - apart from the inherently higher friction due to its increased weight.
I've seen motor bikes with pedals stuck on but I'm not that sure they could be pedaled up a 20% hill.
Could you do that Luke?
Cheers
Andrew
The Tangerine Dream Machine Man
My view is that the bike should be able to be pedaled normally and be no different from how it was prior to electrification with respect to drag - apart from the inherently higher friction due to its increased weight.
I've seen motor bikes with pedals stuck on but I'm not that sure they could be pedaled up a 20% hill.
Could you do that Luke?
Cheers
Andrew
The Tangerine Dream Machine Man
MrDude_1
100 kW
ajtest said:
weight is a bad qualifier.
I could stick a bunch of high discharge cells into a tiny 1p pack.. it would have short range, but it would be light and go just as fast.
I didn't really get my point across as intended.
What I was trying to say is that if it weren't electrified it should still be possible to pedal it up a steep hill - something which would probably be impossible for the sort of radical conversions we often see on ES.
TDMM
What I was trying to say is that if it weren't electrified it should still be possible to pedal it up a steep hill - something which would probably be impossible for the sort of radical conversions we often see on ES.
TDMM
Drunkskunk
100 GW
ajtest said:
You could add a 80,000kw motor to a bicycle and have it cause no drag when pedaled, with a simple freewheel. (I think a few people have) So as a qualifier, pedal drag won't work. Weight is also meaningless, as some old bikes, along with some specialized bikes like cargo bikes and tandems can weigh in at over 100lbs without electric equipment.
As for pedaling up a 20% grade, that is beyond most humans to even try on a stock bike. It's also outside the normal gearing range for most bikes. Geared properly, it could be done, but then it wouldn't matter if it was electric or human powered. Gears are easy to change.
Once a bike is converted with even a tiny euro-legal motor, it's no longer necessary to run stock gears as the effective power to the wheel is at least double. So once a bike is converted, many riders will change gears to take better advantage of the bike's new power range.
I forgot to mention that Swansea University has installed a big block Lightningrods kit which has two freewheels making it impossible to turn the pedals by means of the motor. As you can hear in this clip it cycles exactly as before without the motor going (it's not been switched on yet) although I guess that the increased weight would have a really small retarding effect.
https://youtu.be/iwIt8Gxs_Bw
TTDM
https://youtu.be/iwIt8Gxs_Bw
TTDM
nutnspecial
10 MW
I am thinking it's a trick question. Unless we are to use anything other than the legal definition
So the answer is: local legal limits, otherwise it is just a motorcycle according to laws
Anyway to get around that? Not that I see. Even if there are areas or states with no bicycle power regs, the result couldn't be widely recognized as fair. A new set of 'illegal' guidelines could be contrived, but not sure how that would work out with guiness.
Weight classes would be the only way for a true contest imo as well, but of course the laws are written in such a way that over-speed, power, or weight aren't bicycles anymore.
So the answer is: local legal limits, otherwise it is just a motorcycle according to laws
Anyway to get around that? Not that I see. Even if there are areas or states with no bicycle power regs, the result couldn't be widely recognized as fair. A new set of 'illegal' guidelines could be contrived, but not sure how that would work out with guiness.
Weight classes would be the only way for a true contest imo as well, but of course the laws are written in such a way that over-speed, power, or weight aren't bicycles anymore.
dogman dan
1 PW
I don't understand your question at all.
But the race bike I built once did 50 mph with the motor, but still had the low gear on it. So I suppose you could still have shifted down to the tiny front ring, and pedaled it up a steep hill. Lots of the higher powered bikes here have had those gears still on the bike, but one speed rear gears are now more common since the big motors arrived.
Question is, why would you do that? In general, home or the car is downhill. Or you can go home and get the car if it's uphill. In a breakdown I mean.
In terms of legality, my race bike was not a bicycle. It was a home made motorcycle with pedals, completely illegal to ride on the public roads. Legal in dirt, but the slick tires etc made the thing unsuitable for even the best dirt road.
But the race bike I built once did 50 mph with the motor, but still had the low gear on it. So I suppose you could still have shifted down to the tiny front ring, and pedaled it up a steep hill. Lots of the higher powered bikes here have had those gears still on the bike, but one speed rear gears are now more common since the big motors arrived.
Question is, why would you do that? In general, home or the car is downhill. Or you can go home and get the car if it's uphill. In a breakdown I mean.
In terms of legality, my race bike was not a bicycle. It was a home made motorcycle with pedals, completely illegal to ride on the public roads. Legal in dirt, but the slick tires etc made the thing unsuitable for even the best dirt road.
MrDude_1
100 kW
Where I live, the bike is not explicitly illegal.... so its therefore legal.
I am sure that will change as more people from the rest of the country move here and influence laws and public perception...
I am sure that will change as more people from the rest of the country move here and influence laws and public perception...
dogman dan
1 PW
Interesting if that would stand in court.
In my state, there is no such thing as an e bike in the laws. But as far as cops give a shit, the e bike is legal. There's your bottom line, anything cops don't give a shit about is legal enough. :wink: Signs are posted barring motorized vehicles from bike paths, but nobody gives a shit if I ride those paths, except a few bitches that like to walk four abreast blocking the path to all, bikes, joggers, whatever. Cops can see me going 30 mph on the path, and they just smile at me. I ride slower if the path is not empty of course. If I was known to the cops enough though, everything I did could be illegal enough. I've lived that way in the past.
What we have in my state though, is a pretty liberal, and or vague moped law. This law allows 30 mph travel, no registration, but a valid drivers license is required, so no riders too young to get one.
As long as cops never see me going much over 30 mph, no problemo. But if I tried to ride 50 mph on a bike looking object with no plates daily, I suspect at some point the cops who's mission is traffic enforcement would pull me over to ask what the heck kind of home made, unregistered, unlicensed motorcycle with pedals I'm riding.
In my state, there is no such thing as an e bike in the laws. But as far as cops give a shit, the e bike is legal. There's your bottom line, anything cops don't give a shit about is legal enough. :wink: Signs are posted barring motorized vehicles from bike paths, but nobody gives a shit if I ride those paths, except a few bitches that like to walk four abreast blocking the path to all, bikes, joggers, whatever. Cops can see me going 30 mph on the path, and they just smile at me. I ride slower if the path is not empty of course. If I was known to the cops enough though, everything I did could be illegal enough. I've lived that way in the past.
What we have in my state though, is a pretty liberal, and or vague moped law. This law allows 30 mph travel, no registration, but a valid drivers license is required, so no riders too young to get one.
As long as cops never see me going much over 30 mph, no problemo. But if I tried to ride 50 mph on a bike looking object with no plates daily, I suspect at some point the cops who's mission is traffic enforcement would pull me over to ask what the heck kind of home made, unregistered, unlicensed motorcycle with pedals I'm riding.
SoCal, as well as a lot of places it would seem, is like Dan describes. I've never had a problem, but haven't exceeded 35 mph and always go into pedal only mode when encountering hikers. Haven't even received a second glance from the constabulary on any adventure road or bike trail (I don't venture into wilderness or park areas).
dogman dan
1 PW
I'd like Mr Dude to explain further about his local law. In my state, it starts in the vehicle code definitions. A motor vehicle is any wheeled conveyance powered by a motor or a horse, except as provided by section bla bla bla.
Or in other words, if it has wheels and a motor, it's a motor vehicle unless we say it's a bicycle, moped, Segway, wheelchair...
So nothing in New Mexico, including horse and wagon, is exempt from the motor vehicle laws. There are provisions of course, for farm vehicles, horse and wagon, heavy equipment, etc. But nothing whatsoever is simply legal because they did not mention it. They do mention it, in the vehicle definitions section of the vehicle code. A motor vehicle is ANY vehicle,,,, etc.
Or in other words, if it has wheels and a motor, it's a motor vehicle unless we say it's a bicycle, moped, Segway, wheelchair...
So nothing in New Mexico, including horse and wagon, is exempt from the motor vehicle laws. There are provisions of course, for farm vehicles, horse and wagon, heavy equipment, etc. But nothing whatsoever is simply legal because they did not mention it. They do mention it, in the vehicle definitions section of the vehicle code. A motor vehicle is ANY vehicle,,,, etc.
MrDude_1
100 kW
I said it in more depth elsewhere but...dogman dan said:
I am in the Charleston, SC.
They passed a law allowing gopeds on the city streets.
My "ebike" is a modified Goped, that looks stockish. Nothing hokey.
I dont have issues, and I ride it everytime I can. I think people like it better because its silent compared to the noisy ones.
in addition to that, until recently they didnt require registering mopeds. A license is "required" but an otherwise suspended license can apply to mopeds.
You can make your own moped in this state pretty easily with vin even looked at. They dont like this in paperwork because of theft issues, but its still doable. not illegal.
A moped in this state cannot be capable of exceeding 35mph on flat ground. Can not have a manual clutch. Is only allowed for a top speed of 25 unless safety issues require going faster. does not make more than 4 brake horsepower (or 5, i forget)
Theres a few more small things, but you get the idea... any ebike can be made to fit them easily
That said, my ebike/scooter is legal, just due to a poorly worded law, and the brand name on it..
Ottodog
100 W
ajtest said:
Schlumpf drive for the win. They'll pedal up to 50 mph.
dogman dan
1 PW
Cool, you are in the moped law then. I'm similar, but my speed limit is 30 mph, although cops have seen me going 33 or so with no reactions.
I like this approach, even though it supposedly bans me from bike trails. I'd rather not be limited to a particular wattage, since I ride heavy cargo bikes. I'm allowed 50cc's whatever that means. I figure it makes 3 hp legal for sure, so I run about 2000w max.
I just needed more info about what exactly you are riding, to understand why you are legal. I was thinking of the typical, ES type e bike. 40 or 50 mph, that kind of thing. That bike, in my state, is explicitly stated to be illegal. above 30 mph top speed. Above 30 mph, vin number and motorcycle plate.
I like this approach, even though it supposedly bans me from bike trails. I'd rather not be limited to a particular wattage, since I ride heavy cargo bikes. I'm allowed 50cc's whatever that means. I figure it makes 3 hp legal for sure, so I run about 2000w max.
I just needed more info about what exactly you are riding, to understand why you are legal. I was thinking of the typical, ES type e bike. 40 or 50 mph, that kind of thing. That bike, in my state, is explicitly stated to be illegal. above 30 mph top speed. Above 30 mph, vin number and motorcycle plate.
