Stealth City Cruiser MTB

[MisterMint]

Stealth City Cruiser MTB

edit: New Donor, waiting in my backyard for electrification

thumbs link to high res pictures, open in new tabs with middle click:


The story

I recently discovered that coming all sweaty to work or party is only funny for the first 2-3 hours. If you start to smell yourself its already too late..
So while I want to keep on doing conventional cycling on the weekends to loose some of ~95 Kg bodyweight - spreaded in a kinda curvy way
over my 184 cm bodyheight - I decided to buy some electrical footman for everyday A to B tasks.
Battery should last about 30-40 Km when I cycle along without getting sweaty.

fast, light, cheap, durable, comfy, secure, versatile... I want it all!!!

Surely I can´t have, at least if I keep cheap in equation.
So I go for medium affordable (< 1K€ TCO including bike), medium fast, medium light (& medium legal..hehe).
Ah yeah, don´t forget very comfy & secure. Don´t want to ruin my back and hand joints.
I also don´t want to burn down the house with cheap Lipo.

Requirements in detail:

- Light in a way that getting into trains isn´t a pita and occasional stairs will not stop me. Not like the Stock Ebikes I tried which basicly transform into real estate once empty.

- Speedwise I drive around 20-25 Km/h on even terrain without support so it should be able to get me onto 35-40 Km/h when I pedal along as I am used to (with sweating).
35 Km/h topspeed would also be fine, but I would also not cry if it can push me faster.

- According to the voices from the interwebs it should be possible to return to my home with empty batteries with up-to-date geared motors like Q100H.
It will not feel at all like the bike did before modification but it should be possible. True?

-The vehicle should be stealth or at least not cry out E-bike. Some me cheap bags in the back might support this attempt and hide the battery.

- Where I live I am often forced to drive on public streets with the traffic and people tend to get way to close to my back with their cars - even at higher speeds.
There is also alot city railway crossing streets that they still did not put underground. So plunging is simply not an option here, which is beside the sweat the most important reason
I am investing into a new secure vehicle. There is also plenty of broken glass in the city after every weekend..

- Riding up 5 cm high pavements without tipping the break and taking shorts trough the park are also nice things I can not really do with my current touringbike-frankenstein.

- And yeah, before I forget.. I need to make it (sufficiently) legal once I am tired of the full throttle.. Otherwise accidents may become very expensive.

The Plan

Reminder to myself:
It´s often a good idea to start with a simple setup to get used to matter, avoid frustration and get things into motion.
In a later stage you can still add all the fancy things your red about. Like this: http://www.speedict.com/index.jsp
So, back to the easy plan.

Platform

edit: outdated, donor is in the pictures on beginning of post.

Option 1:

http://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/specialized-s-works-m2-%E2%80%9Cteam%E2%80%9C/344459271-217-7530

Too expensive for what it is?

Option 2:

Trash the 26 inch - high-end MTB from the 90`s idea and find a newer 29 inch as platform.
(I just learned today that 29 inch MTB is the same rim diameter as so called 28 inch
.. they just call it 29 because the tire is thicker and it works so great to confuse newbies.)

In general I am used to 28 inch wheels and I really like the way they keep rolling straight once I reached my travel speed.
I do not mind to much about acceleration, if needed like in dangerous traffic I simply stand up and jump 2-3 times into the pedals.
(Sometimes alot weight also helps to survice.. hehe) The drawbacks of 28/29 inch are added weight of wheels and frame and also a little less
agility in ruff terrain. This is at least what the voices are telling me.

The change in wheel diameter would also change total systems reduction ratio (motor->street) to less torquey and more speedy -
which could be a good thing if the Q100H can take it without melting its tiny plastic gears. Who knows`? Seriously!
The motor and its axis would need to take more torque due to longer lever, ruffly something like factor 1.1 to 1.2 depending on tires.
Last but not least 28 inch wheels seem to have less zen, akastability in itself due to some physical reasons that I skipped.
Some reports on the net about broken spokes here.. An idea I really dislike.

Its really hard to decide here for me, as the driving characteristics of a vehicle can not really be explained in words .
The 26 inch MTB´s I have driven where fun but also kinda flimsy. Maybe this feeling changes if 500 watts are pushing in your back?
Any opinions are very welcome, just try to stay objective so we don´t end up in a wheel diameter flamewar.

Tires

edit: Tire question has been solved for now, see pics, I will buy another Big Apple 2.35 for the front as the smaller version looks really stupid.

Been lugging around the Marathon Plus on my Frankenstein for about two years and never had a single problem - heavy but durable.
Staying with the brand seems to be a good idea.

Front: Schwalbe Big Apple Plus 55-559 (26 x 2.15) GreenGuard @ 3-4 bar - 1kg (35 oz) http://tinyurl.com/q2gonv7
80% shards secure, way less dampening that the 2.35 version, not too much rolling friction

Rear: Schwalbe Big Apple 60-559 (26 x 2.35) @ 2-3 bar - 780 g (27 oz)
60% shards secure but very good dampening on low pressure. Making up a bit for the missing suspension on the rear, giving large contact area
to street so the united man & machine torque is applied to where it belongs. (Again: Acceleration is not the main focus but would make me smile.)

From what I red these two balloon tires behave very, very well on any kind of street and still acceptable on pretty much anything else beside wet mud.
(I don´t like wet mud anyways.) Guess I would not put them onto a bike without a motor as they are really too heavy for that.

Is there any experience how well the "normal" Big Apple can handle broken glass? Is there any comparable balloon style tires
around 2.35 that offer better protection? (As said, this is really an issue in my place.) And from my readings the really 2.35 offers much better
suspension then the smaller versions. Can anybody verify this? Or point me to the place where the tire fanatics live to ask them maybe?

Another option (at least for the front) would be this:
http://www.amazon.com/Schwinn-Street-Comfort-Kevlar-1-95-Inch/dp/B0088X3VL6
But I have no experience with this brand.


Motor

- Rear Q100H 36V 260 RPM @ 48 V 18-21 A http://tinyurl.com/paeqcll

If I believe the Q100H thread this motor seems to be the weapon of choice for my task,
(but I am always happy to hear I was wrong in such cases.)

Small enough to hide, will give it a matte silver paint and some fake rust spots with a toothbrush to blend better into build.
I do not expect this baby to pull me up a steep hill, I just want to cycle along as if it was (pretty) even ground.
The steepest hill I have to go up frequently is around 6%.

If this is the right choice:

- I red the new version comes with internal speed sensor and someone wrote it even had temperature sensor (which I kinda doubt).
Is any of this true? As always no info about this on BMS... god how much more would they sell if they had somebody that would condense
the info you really need into a small texts.. (and only the info, without the need to go trought lengthy, boring forums posts like mine.)
edit: new Q100H comes with speed sensor (thx motomech), still not sure about temp sensor.

- Does newer version of this motor still suffer from stuck freewheel when a fatty like me sits on top?

- Oily mess really worth the hassle (in general)? edit: NO, its not! Motor will not get to warm at 48 V, and its a real mess with the oil. (according to motomech)



Rim & Spokes

edit: outdated, will get raw motor and wide rim, friend will build it.

A friend of mine could help me to fit the raw motor with the 13G (?) spokes into a proper rim, as this would save about 60 € shipping costs I think about accepting his offer
(remember BMS does not ship directly but they must take the route via the moon..) He is a real bike nerd (with a fixation onto stripped down 26 inch pre-millenium MTB´s I guess),
and I am quite sure he will come up with some tricks that make this good thing even better.

- What rim would you recommend taking the 2.35 Big Apple at fairly low pressure and my heavy weight into account?
- What spoke lenght would match with this specific rim?
- Is it really worth the hassle or should I just get the already installed version? (This would also give me problems with proper uglyfication..)

Controller & Battery:

Remembering the reminder I gave to myself I will for now trash any fancy
ideas I will go with something like this:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/770-48v10ah-case-02-18650-battery-pack-battery.html
Its very cheap as it comes with all external parts needed.
I wonder how they do it, are the Ah numbers on the package maybe far from reality?

edit: As Nobuo pointed out this battery would be on the low end. I will get the next bigger version,
this should improve range and battery life as well: https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/765-48v116ah-case-02-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html


Good choice? Or too much for tiny little Q100H? edit: Controller unknown itm, but seems to be a good match.


Questions regarding this specific controller (if known):
- Will it work with the Dual-hall 12 signals sensor?
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/705-dual-hall-sensor-12-signals-easy-assembling-pas-ebike-kit.html
I heard this was much more snappy..

- Is there any way without additional hardware to soft-limit it to 25 km/h? Via the LCD I guess..
Is there maybe also an easy way to temp disable this stupid 25 km/h limitation on the fly?
Maybe even something that resets on power loss? This would be great! edit: outdated question

- Will it work with throttle only connected? edit: outdated question
(Anybody tried mounting a small magnet on your thumb inside a glove.. true invisible magic this could be my friends!
Just an idea for those who suffer from limited laws like I do...


Other components in my chart (for both options):

-2 x Three Speed Switch Kit
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/53-three-speed-switch-kit-parts.html?search_query=speed+switch&results=4
Will paint it black and use this to switch lights only.. hopefully sidetracking them.. muahaha..

- HWBS - Hidden Wire Brake Sensor
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/459-hwbs-hidden-wire-brake-sensor-1pcs-parts.html
Hope I will be able to mount them to the brakes that come with the bike in a later stage.

-Torque Arms (will this protect the frame good enough even when sending 48V 17A to the motor?)
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/450-a-pair-of-ebike-torque-arm-parts.html


Is there anything missing in this list until here? (Beside the bloody spokes?)
Did I oversee something important? Any fragment of information is very welcome!
Thank you for your help!

 

[Nobuo]

A project very good organized

I think the battery would work, however is the minimum for your requirements.

As you want a rear hub, and not so big battery, do you think in the possibility to add a bottle battery inside the frame? in order to balance a little more the weight

 

[MisterMint]

thank you for your input @Nobuo

When you say minimum I guess you are refering to Ah and not Voltage, right?
There is a slightly stronger version available, but it add another 100 € to the bill:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/765-48v116ah-case-02-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html
This seems to be quite alot for only 1.6 Ah more, then again the name Panasonic sounds good to me, as they usually
deliver the amount of energy that is written on the battery.

about hiding battery inside frame: This is actually planed for next step, but first I want to go with something idiot - proof.
As I plan to infect my environment with e-bike the same way I did with e-cigarettes some years ago I believe someone will
take the battery from me if I go for another solution. In worst case mum gets an E-bike...

 

[Nobuo]

thank you for your input @Nobuo

When you say minimum I guess you are refering to Ah and not Voltage, right?
There is a slightly stronger version available, but it add another 100 € to the bill:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/765-48v116ah-case-02-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html
This seems to be quite alot for only 1.6 Ah more, then again the name Panasonic sounds good to me, as they usually
deliver the amount of energy that is written on the battery.

about hiding battery inside frame: This is actually planed for next step, but first I want to go with something idiot - proof.
As I plan to infect my environment with e-bike the same way I did with e-cigarettes some years ago I believe someone will
take the battery from me if I go for another solution. In worst case mum gets an E-bike...

Yes, about the capacity (that also includes a high cell drain and warm battery work). More capacity give you more range but also more years of battery health.

The voltage is more than enough for what you want.

that batteries are not cheap, but that 11.6Ah panasonic one would be so much more convenient

 

[motomech]

Motor-Q100H (260) on 48V will top out around 22 to 23mph, but this motor is only available for rear fitment for use with a free wheel. Most of us using a mini motor do not care to replace donor bike cassette with clunky free wheel.
The Q100C(cassette version)comes in two speeds, 201 and 328. 328 is for sm. wheels only, so Q100C on 48V in 26" wheel = 19 mph
The motor we want is a 260 Q100C and a member here is planning to try and fit 260 gears into a C motor.
I would think, that for your donor bike, 19 to 20 mph would be fast enough.
The 18 Amp controller inbedded in rack battery is a new product, that has not been reported on here, but appears to be a very good match for the Cute motors.
I would suggest that you down-load and study the manual of the LCD-3 and LCD-5 displays to understand their functions.
Q100 motor are not prone to over-heat at reasonable Voltages. At 48V, it will barely get warm to touch. Adding oil will create a mess that you will spend a long time cleaning.
Yes, the newest Q100's have a speed sensor inside.
On 26. wheels, 2-cross with bicycle 14 Ga. spokes work fine. If you want to use 13 Ga. spokes, order the spoke wrench from BMS B.

 

[MisterMint]

@Nobuo "so much more convenient" really sounds like its worth the additional 100 bucks. Will update first post accordingly.

@motomech thanks alot, thats some serious information density!

Thanks for pointing me onto the difference between freewheel and cassette, I really did oversee this.
For those as new to the game as I am, here is the explanation: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html
Basicly on (shimano) cassette system the ratchet mechanism is part of the hub, while on oldskool screw-on freewheel its part of the
freewheel itself. This saves money on worn out sprockets, makes exchange easier and has some other small advantages.
Beside these - once installed - both act pretty much in the same way, right?
(like: You have multiple gears and can switch between them. )

So this means I must add one of these to my chart?
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/48-shimano-14-28-teeth-freewheel-shimano-parts.html
7-speed would still give me 27 gears. Will there any problems with chain angle that can not be solved by adjusting?

Q100C 260 RPM sounds like a great idea, but I might wait until its proven to work and parts are available. Next bike maybe?

Why do you believe 19-20 mph would be enough for the donor? Missing suspension on the rear? Frame stability?
Any opinions onto 26 vs 28 inch?

Red trough the LCD 3 & 5 manuals, looks like there is no simply way for unlocking unlimited max speed on the fly (for limited time.)
They should really include something like this, like a code you enter and it will be unlocked for the next hour...
Will surely find a solution for this later.

Last but not least: Spokes again. I can´t find a 14ga on BMS, guess I can get them from my local dealer or wherever I prefer?
How do I find out what lenght I exactly need? (Tools should be available in the workshop where I will put parts together.)

thanks for your input, keep it coming.

 

[motomech]

@Nobuo "so much more convenient" really sounds like its worth the additional 100 bucks. Will update first post accordingly.

@motomech thanks alot, thats some serious information density!

Thanks for pointing me onto the difference between freewheel and cassette, I really did oversee this.
For those as new to the game as I am, here is the explanation: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html
Basicly on (shimano) cassette system the ratchet mechanism is part of the hub, while on oldskool screw-on freewheel its part of the
freewheel itself. This saves money on worn out sprockets, makes exchange easier and has some other small advantages.
Beside these - once installed - both act pretty much in the same way, right?
(like: You have multiple gears and can switch between them. )

So this means I must add one of these to my chart?
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/48-shimano-14-28-teeth-freewheel-shimano-parts.html
7-speed would still give me 27 gears. Will there any problems with chain angle that can not be solved by adjusting?

Q100C 260 RPM sounds like a great idea, but I might wait until its proven to work and parts are available. Next bike maybe?

Why do you believe 19-20 mph would be enough for the donor? Missing suspension on the rear? Frame stability?
Any opinions onto 26 vs 28 inch?

Red trough the LCD 3 & 5 manuals, looks like there is no simply way for unlocking unlimited max speed on the fly (for limited time.)
They should really include something like this, like a code you enter and it will be unlocked for the next hour...
Will surely find a solution for this later.

Last but not least: Spokes again. I can´t find a 14ga on BMS, guess I can get them from my local dealer or wherever I prefer?
How do I find out what lenght I exactly need? (Tools should be available in the workshop where I will put parts together.)

thanks for your input, keep it coming.

So this means I must add one of these to my chart?
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/48-shimano-14-28-teeth-freewheel-shimano-parts.html
7-speed would still give me 27 gears. Will there any problems with chain angle that can not be solved by adjusting?

That free wheel is useless for Ebike. You need one with 11 T sm. gear and that means the heavy Epoch DNP. Even with 11T sm. gear, you may need to change big frt. chain ring to largest that will fit to be able to pedal above 20 mph.

Why do you believe 19-20 mph would be enough for the donor? Missing suspension on the rear? Frame stability?

Around 20 mph, suspension and hyd. brakes become less of an option and more of a necessity I.M.O. Depends on road surfaces and traffic.

Any opinions onto 26 vs 28 inch?

You seem to really want to use 28"wheeled bike, go ahead. 201C motor will have a top speed in the 21 to 22 mph range, closer to what you want, right?

Red trough the LCD 3 & 5 manuals, looks like there is no simply way for unlocking unlimited max speed on the fly (for limited time.)
They should really include something like this, like a code you enter and it will be unlocked for the next hour...
Will surely find a solution for this later.

Highest level of speed limiter is unlimited. Pas limiter does not effect top speed.

Last but not least: Spokes again. I can´t find a 14ga on BMS, guess I can get them from my local dealer or wherever I prefer?
How do I find out what lenght I exactly need? (Tools should be available in the workshop where I will put parts together.)

Maybe for you this first time, it would be easier to order wheel ASM from BMS B. You would need to center the rim(called "dishing")and adjust the spokes with the BMS B. spoke wrench. It is not difficult, you can do it with the wheel mounted on bike. It will take you some time, but you will understand quickly what needs to be done. The BMS B. rim is skinny, but you can still mount a 2.2"tire(MAX).

The one, best I.M.O. option we have not discussed, is mounting motor on the front.
For low power systems, less than 800 Watts, this works very well and the Cute is so small, nobody notices it.
Frt mount is very easy install, no(or little)wheel dishing and no disturbing original cassette.
The frt. motor will offset rear rack battery weight for better overall bike balance.
For max power and speed from a Cute, put Q100H 260 on frt. if using 26"wheel. For 28"wheel, better to stay with the 201H.

TIP: For max stealth, choose donor bike with dark color. This will help "hide" the wires.

 

[MisterMint]

thank´s again for your input motomech!

There has been a little change in the project, I got a new Donor! WOOT!!! ´
It looks quite ugly since some parts have been "cleaned" with a way too agressive cleaner,
but I was told that the parts themself are quite fine. I changed picture in first port and linked to some closeups.
This also ends all thinkering about 28 inch, as I already fell in love.. It drives fantasticly compared to my old 50€ commuter.
Who would have guessed this.. (Color is light grey as you see, I will add fake rust stickers and paint the cables in similar color as frame.)
http://shop.variationsonnormal.com/product/anti-theft-car-bike-device-rust-stickers

About front motor: I would love to start with front motor, but in the city where I live there is way too much police, thus they are bored and go for anything
that looks strange. Its only a matter of years until they start checking anything that looks electro for max speed on regular base and I would not be to surprised if they come
up with some mobile unit to measure system output wattage soon as well.. as said, they are really bored.
I also red that front motor does not work well with suspension..

Freewheel: http://www.amazon.com/DNP-Epoch-Freewheel-Nickel-Plated/dp/B007A8RPUS
Thats the right one? For the meachanical side (once I got all parts needed) I got very good support now, so if things do not instantly match they can be forced to do so (I guess..).
Since that later exchanging the biggest front chain ring should be no problem if I find out its not big enough.

max speed: On my testrides I felt that around 40 kmh / 25 mph is about the speed I still feel happy with (on good street).
I will not drive this all day, but the aim is that my vehicle can do it if I need it. (And I will start to wear a helmet..)

Rims&Spokes: I will get the motor and my friend is looking for a wide 26 rim that plays well with the Schwalbe Big Apple.
He said it was no problem to get the matching spokes from local dealer once we have both components around.

For now I am holding back my order from BMS/elifebike as I remembered a friend has a ebike he is not using, so might get hold of used battery pack from him.
Will take some time as he is not around itm, but this would dramaticly lower the cost the raw motor from elifebike is only around 112 $ (incl. shipping!).

Thank you all for your help so far, I will report back (with closeup e-bike-porn pictures for sure..) as soon as project goes into next level.
If you have one or two cent that might help me to find the best possible route don´t hold back. Will check thread on regular base.

 

[motomech]

Q100H(260) on 48V in 27"tire(Big Apple diameter)=23 to 24 mph. You pedal like Hell to get 25 mph!
ELB sells the Q100 in Silver, better to hide with that bike.
You can put faux disc brake rotor on non-free wheel side.
Do not forget to order a pair of torque arms.
Here is my Rocky Mountain with Q100C on rear with wider Alex DM24 rim and 2.5"Cyclopes tire(14 Ga. DT Swiss spokes in 2-cross pattern).

For stealth inspiration, observe the bikes of fellow German Nader.
How he does those tiny batteries is a mystery.
His other hobby must be building ships in bottles :lol:
https://www.electricbike.com/mini-hub-motors/

 

[MisterMint]

sorry for the delay, had to do further investigations..

@motomech: This just looks perfectly stealth to me! Great!!! Very good idea with the fake disc brake, hides the obvious shape of the motor from open side. Will do it!
The big tires also make the motor even look smaller. 23-24 MPH is just perfect as well, its good to have a limit so I don´t overdo and break my neck. Its still a bike..
I also checked Naders builds, really good source for inspiration. Not completly transferable to my needs as Hamburg is completly flat, so he can live with much smaller battery.

I went away from the idea to put be battery on luggage rack, as this really does affect the way the vehicle behaves at higher speeds very badly.
Did some experiment with 5 packs of orange juice bound to rack, and it felt pretty insecure in curves. So.. looks like I have to trash a some stealth and put it inside triangle.

I found this triangle battery on Aliexpress, they claim to use original high-drain Samsung / LG cells:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/48V-15AH-Lith-Ion-Electric-Bicycle-ebike-Triangle-Battery-charger-1-year-warranty-shipping-for-free/32435093826.html
Looks like a very good price for me and the 15 Ah 48 V will hopefully carry me over the day with a little pedaling. Will see... but this would make it possible
to mount the battery fixed & 99% unstealable inside a bag and only charge it over night when I can put the bike next to the charger.
Some chatting with the (very helpful) seller revealed that its only around 4.4 Kg (without the charger). One might glue some aluminium sheets to the sides to
avoid intrusion of sharp things into the pack in case of crash or bike falling over. Its rated ~40A continous discharge, so in case I get bored to soon I could add a second
motor to front wheel. Or maybe a huge soundsystem.. who knows..

Think about getting this Lunacycle Bag to house the battery:
http://lunacycle.com/batteries/luna-cycles-triangle-battery-bag/

Second option is this one from Lunacycle as well:
http://lunacycle.com/batteries/luna-cycles-triangle-battery-bag-velcro/
It sits deeper, but its really not stealth at all..

This is my absolute favorite bag, but I found no store to buy it without a E-bike attached to it:
http://www.ebike-base.de/uploads/tx_sgebikebase/bluelabel_blueLabel_cruiser_hybrid_Tasche_5_02.jpg
Will call them and ask. (Its not real leather btw)


I will get the motor in silver from elifebike. AFAIK its called QQ-M100R there. Is this really Q100H??
http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2011-3Y-12GE.4Q2HX
Any idea where to get nice "250W" stickers?

As I recently had to learn one can not simply put 8-speed freewheel onto a bike with shimano 9-speed (different chain, different distances between gears..)
So.. does this freewheel finally match with the motor above? Its quite confusing as the ELB page allows to choose "fork size" (for rear motor...) between following two options:

-"135mm Disc Brake Feelwheel Rear-Drving(fit Disk Brake and Rim/V Brak"
-")"

Dunno what ")" is ment to tell me, but its confusing me.
Is this just an error in their webshop? I can actually choose it and it will show up in order.

So.. this is one 9-speed shimano compatible freewheel I found:
http://www.amazon.de/SUNRACE-Schraubkranz-Mf-E-9-fach-MFEX9AU-BOX/dp/B00Y8UE9UA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1440447436&sr=8-3&keywords=schraubkranz+9-fach
edit: That is the another one I just found.. looks like the one mentioned before:
http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/dnp-epoch-freewheel-9spd-11-34-nickel-plated

Sadly ELB does not offer torque arms, so I found these made in UK, they look good to me. (Getting pair of 12mm)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Eyelet-Style-Torque-Arm-4-eBIke-Electric-Bike-Stainless-Steel-/111456614213?var=&hash=item19f354f745
This is where I want to mount it (middle-click for full size):


And as I already went away from the "easy path" I am now looking for the best matching controller for my usecase.
From what I learned ELB´s QQ-500-9M could be a good match: http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2012-8W-QNK2.073KQ
True? Will the permanently turned on EABS cause problems on a hub motor like mine? Will 42 V cutoff be fine with the battery?
Would be nice if I could start with this controller as this saves quite some shipping costs.

edit: Ah, before I forget, I bought me a (around 800g heavy) Suntour SP12-NCX saddle suspension for 50 bucks on ebay.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/321490891059
This should end the pain in the back..


Well, hope thats pretty much it? Did I oversee any other crucial part?
If everthing works out as planed I should be able to drive electrified in about 3-4 weeks. I am really looking forward to this,
reading around in this place without having such a device feels like a dog in front of budger window.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34hkpKFwD2I&feature=youtu.be&t=93


Its really amazing what prices local dealers put up for the hardware we talk about.
Then again taking into account that the original dealers all have different names for the same thing,
and the way they (do not..) document the details of their products these prices might not look that bad anymore.

 

[d8veh]

You should get a contoller with a LCD if you want a decent pedal assist function.

I think it would be much eaier to get your stuff fom BMSBattery, where they hve the Q100H and various 48v batteries that include a 18A or 20A sinewave controller with LCD. That makes a very simple and neat installation.

The gearing is a problem because of the width of 8-speed and 9-speed freewheels. They push the spoke flanges off centre, so you need an excessive dish in the wheel to get the rim in the centre of your frame. A small dish (7-speed) is OK, but bigger than that can give spoke problems. You can still use 7-speed with your existing changers, but you have to do double clicks on some gears.

You can peel off the 350w label on a Q100. Nobody will believe that your motor is more than 250w because it's tiny.

At 95kg, you don't want a too motor winding speed more than you need. The 201 rpm one at 48v in a 26" wheel will give you about 32 km/h. That same motor in a 700c wheel would be perfect. The 260 rpm one will give you about 43 km/h, which is a bit fast for your weight. It will not be so efficient. I think I'd go with the 201 rpm unless your ides are flat. If you find it oo slow, you can always buy a bare motor in the future and swap the cores. The bare motors don't cost much and the cores are easy to swap.

 

[MisterMint]

Thank you all for your advice!

Double-clicking is something I would like to remain a windows function, and not infect my bike..
So it looks like its all Q100C CST 201 RPM 36V@48V for anybody like me who wants 26 inch & rear & stealth & lightweight?
Can the CST handle the BMS 20 A controller as well as th Q100H does? I red it was build a bit smaller then the Q100H, so I thought maybe 18A controller might be a better match?

edit: The controller needs speed sensor, is it proven that the Q100C has one as well?

 

[d8veh]

Cwah ran the 328 rpm Q100C with a 48v battery and 20A controller without problems (AFAIK), but he's a lot lighter than you. You should be OK with the 201 rpm one. The 20A controller uses current control, so as long as you use the PAS, you can turn the current down to a lower level than max.

 

[MisterMint]

So, I took my time and did some more reading on ES and in other places. So much to learn! (Hope the ferrofluid method turns out useable, very tempting!!)
I finally ordered and ended up with Q100C CST 201 RPM 36V and the 20A 48V sinewave controller from BMS. (Then I red about 2-speed hub..)
Battery is still pending, so many options.. Triangle shape, Panasonic NCR18650PF, 13S 4P or 5P - or maybe even 14S if the controller can take it.
Later on this, I first got to get the mechanical side working.

I received box from BMS 2 weeks ago, took only 8 days to ship.
Sadly the PAS connector is (yellow) two-pin while the connector at the 20A sinewave controller is four-pin (blue).
(Need PAS to make it legal, don´t want to cut-off nice plugs at controller.)

Ah, yeah.. and they forgot to send me the 9-pin cable to connect the controller to the motor.. not that this was essential in any way,
but I still believe it would indeed make the thing go a little faster with the motor connected.
Funny guys ask me to pay another 23$ shipping fees to send these two little cables (via the moon..)
At least they responded after my mail mentioning Paypal customer protection...
Its really sad if people selling good products have such a bad customer service.
Anyhow, did not come unexpected! Funny guys...

Beside the bummer the kit looks really slick, all the connectors are waterproof and not much thicker than the cable itself. Nice!


The new 20A sinewave controller is really tiny and light and good to hide, one side completly alloy, the rest made of plastic.
Its sealed from all sides, I would not dare to use it underwater, but it looks like its up for anything beside that.

edit:In case you are interested into the controller I uploaded all these pictures and some additional closeups in full res up here:
http://postimg.org/gallery/2dkhs7qko/


View attachment 6

I could not resist and took a look at the inside. Somehow instantly the words "Hello China!" jumped to my brain..




I could not make out a shunt, and since its two boards in sandwich and really integrated I believe its hard to do modding on this controller undless you really know what you do.
I did not dare to remove board from case, but it looked like its all mounted on a piece of alloy that is then screwed to the outer heatsink.
So if one could move the capacitor sticking out aside it would be possible to put the board in A REALLY small and flat case (think: pack of ciggys) without any heatsink at all
and glue this directly to the bike frame. Why carry around a useless piece of metal if right next to it a giant alloy heatsink with perfect ventilation is available?
(I know.. not really a big gain, but I heard about people measuring their bikes in grams rather than kilograms. And its a slick solution.. I like slick! )

The motor (and torque arms) look also very well machined and came with all the parts needed to mount it. Looks like the tried to fix problems with broken cables when bike falling over,
the axle is cut in on one side to avoid cable overbending and there is wire around it and a plastic cap you can put over. Still not convinced this is enough, a piece of steel above somehow feels saver.





(Can make more pictures if any interest.)

I also got me a downhill rim that is a little wider then 17mm rim width I have now and should play well with the 2.35 wide Schwalbe Big Apple:
http://www.bike-discount.de/de/kaufen/mavic-ex-721-felge-32-loch-schwarz-36721
(I know.. should have gone 36 hole, anyhow.. too late..)

So things begin to work out, what really holds be back (beside so many battery choices.. ) is the blood spoke length.
I found the calc at http://www.ebikes.ca but natually they do not have the Q100C as an option. Neither they have my rim.
I also tried with the funny chinese tool from cyclist.cn but I get lost when its asking me for the offset.
Not even sure if I need two different lenghts, after removing wheel and putting motor in place it looked to my eye
if there is quite some offset.
Could somebody point my dripping nose to the right length that will connect Q100C to this specific rim`?
http://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/rim/250

Ah yeah, before I forget it: Do you believe the controller could handle 14S NCR18650PF? Would give a little more max speed and
also make the system a little more effecient (if I got it right). Is it worth to try? I will monitor voltage anyways and would ask
to make the BMS shut off around 2.85 V so I do not damage the cells by accident. I also thought about asking for 4.15V on the upper
limit to make them live a little longer - if this makes any sense.

This is the guys I want to buy from:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-sale-super-power-triangle-style-e-bike-battery-48v-20ah-lithium-ion-battery/32464132161.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.10.hL9C3l&ws_ab_test=201556_3,201527_2_45_71_72_73_74_75,0_0
(They advertise "brand18650" but its not "brand"..)
But they said they could fit pretty much any cell inside but it would be more expensive. Surprise, surprise!
What I like is that you can have a nice main switch that turns on BMS, so no hassle with clunky 50A switches that sparkle inside.
(I know controller also has a switch but I plan to power some other stuff as well.) Still not fully decided.

I will post some pictures of the progress soon, bike has already changed quite a bit and I hope it will turn out really nice!