Wheelies with hub Motors

[Kittenrainbow]

Hi guys

I have not built something electrical so far. I first wanted to build an electric motorcycle but realized pretty quickly, that it will be a too big projetct for me (A: It would cost more money than I am willing to spend, B: Physically too big, I do not own a garage, C: Limited use: I already have a nice nomal Motorbike, D: Problems getting it homologated and use it on the normal road).

However, I want to switch to something smaller: An electric powered bike. Main Usage of it would be to rock through the woods and the city =)
I imagine something like an electric trial motorcycle / bike.

However I have a rather special requirment: I need to be able to pop some wheelies. I can not say why this is so important to me, but it is^^
I would prefer to stick to a hub drive, because of it simplicity and the possibility to take a normal bike frame, instead of welding something special or make a complicated mid-drive (I have access to a CNC Mill, but no Lathe).

Can you tell me, if it is possible to pop wheelie with a hub drive (for example something like the CROWN TC 65 or the HT 3525) without pedal assisting?
Top speed is not that important to me, maybe about 30-40 km/h, the fun comes with the torque

Oh BTW: i left the weight of the bike and Voltage of electrical system out of focus by purpose: I only want to know IF it is possible, the how comes later

Regards
Kittenrainbow

 

[friendly1uk]

It's not power, it's balance. My relatively weak bike often lifts.

 

[spinningmagnets]

It can be done with a 26-inch wheel, but it is easier with a 20-inch wheel. You can also put foot pegs on the rear axle stubs so your body weight is farther back than the center of the bike. Short bikes wheelie easier than long ones...High amps and/or high volts will help, but it can be done with average amps/volts.

 

[2old]

I would imagine that a rear motor with a battery on a rear rack would facilitate the incidence of the phenomena.

 

[John in CR]

Popping a wheelie is simple with most ebikes due to the short wheelbase and high CG. Riding one is a different story. From what I understand the control over torque with some of the FOC sine wave controllers makes it easier, but it's not like with a gasser moto where you have the throttle control over torque, more motor and transmission drag to bring you back down easily, and a clutch you can feather. I've only seen one video of someone actually riding a wheelie with their ebike in 6 years in this hobby, and that was at only about 10mph, so such low power that it was more like coasting while balancing on one wheel.

 

[Samd]

It's simple, use a large gearmotor for low down torque. Feed it 63 or 7v and 30 amps.
A Code 10 to 13 BPM is nice. Pair it up with a 50 dollar 12 fet KU123 controller.

Here's Kepler's old vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EgShvl5KvY

 

[friendly1uk]

I wouldn't try and regulate a wheelie with the throttle, I would rather have my power at a fixed rate and regulate the wheelie myself. A bicycle wheelie not a m/c wheelie.

 

[Kittenrainbow]

Hey Guys

So if I understand you right, it shouldn't be an all too big problem to pop a wheelie - thats good news!
Another situation where it is really handy to be able to lift the front wheel is when a trunk or something is in the way, to lift the front wheel over it!

I looked at the BPM Motors and they do not look like something I would like to have in a dirt bike.
I thought about having around 2000W in the wheel, so I do not really need to pedal anymore (if I don't want to)

The reason I am tending towards the crystallite is because they seem to be used offroad alot, instead of the plastic gears of the Bafang Motors.

Can you advise me a good motor for offroad use, around 30-40 KM/h in 26" rims, usable to lift the front wheel and maybe ride some wheelies (with practicing) and durable? So not destroyable by wwater or mud?


Regards
Kittenrainbow

 

[matsh]

I have just built my first bike on a downhill bike. Crystalyte tc65 motor and kelly keb72600x controller. 20s lipo. Lots of power to do wheelies. Have run alot of dirtbikes but this thing is another story to do wheelies with. Dont have that feeling on the throttle to much or to litle power. Use alot of power and rear brake to balance it and adjust the wheelie do work with some practise, and get the feeling of the motor / controller.
It cruises werry nice between 30-35kmh. Top speed araound 60kmh. Other controller and higher volt will make more speed. But im comfortable cruising at 35kmh.
Using 26" rim.

 

[dogman dan]

I put together an ebike that wheelied easily once. Started with a pretty powerful rear hubmotor, and used an oversize front wheel and fork to totally ruin the bikes balance. Battery was in the frame. It was still crazy back heavy.

I could barely keep the front wheel on the ground under even modest throttle. Sort of fun to ride, in a gonna crash for sure way. Never really able to dig in the front tire and steer well. I looked for soft sand to land in, avoiding paved or rocky roads.

Very hard to throttle control the wheelie, for the reasons explained above. Very touchy, and after all the balance of that bike was whack. In short, it did really suck.

 

[Allex]

Do you want powerwheelies or regular wheelies where you help your bike to lift with your hands?
And at what speed? For example if you cruising at 40km/h and you want to do a powerwheelie, I think you need to have 15kW or more for this.
Regular wheelies are possible on 1000w bikes
I am able to do powerwheelies with my 11kW bike from 0-20km/h

This guy is feeding his Cromotor with 25kW. What he does is pure power pops
[youtube]Rkjh9XTURCs[/youtube]

Oh and forget Crystalyte junk you can have better for less, like this one:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63142

Take a 6 turn and you will have lots of torque.

 

[100volts+]

I have a heavy long bike with batteries in front (30s lipo) and a cromotor. Its 12kw and will do power wheelies easily even with a 26 inch wheel.

[youtube]AGKd7hIohro[/youtube]

 

[dogman dan]

+1 on the power wheelies.

My point was that getting your wheelies by building a poorly balanced bike just results in a shitty ride. It will just make you crash on the other rides you want, riding in the dirt trials style.

Re trials riding bike, you need a bottom bracket drive for that really. Hub motors don't creep well, at 3 mph, they just overheat. So get a bafang or other bottom bracket drive, gear it low enough, and I bet it will wheelie fine in the lowest gears. You may have to pull it up some, but a mere 750w will have incredible torque if you have a big enough low gear.

Since the bafang does have a large front gear, you might have to do something creative to get a big enough rear gear.

 

[crea2k]

You can use a hub motor just fine for offroad, downhill, motocross style, my bike is proof. It power wheelies well too and can creep just fine, it can wheelspin from a standing start with your full bodyweight on it if you give it full throttle.

 

[chefkoch]

My Bike with a HT3525 @ 20s and 46A max. batterie current (measured) what gives about 3kW max. output power wheelies quite well.

Not real powerwheelies (or only at low speed and full batteries) but it has enough torque to lift the front wheel up to maybe 30km/h without pedalling but with heavy pulling on the handlebar

Here's e video about that:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FkG_eyuN4w

Or for the germans:http://vimeo.com/84250453?email_id=...e_complete-finished-20120100&utm_source=email

cheers

 

[biknut]

Ha haa

[youtube]SfZoyQ_6yNY[/youtube]