Where do I get special spokes for my hub motor?

[Pinesal]

A week ago or so, some spokes broke on my hub motor.

I took my hub motor to a bike shop and I asked them if they work on ebikes. They said yes no problem, they'll take the wheel and have the bike mechanic look at it and they will call me later.

They call me later and tell me they cannot find any spokes that will fit my wheel and asked if I can help them locate them.

The wheel I have is this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/273646616371 (price is inaccurate? I payed about $150 for it)
I have contacted the seller but I am not optimistic that he will be able to help me.
The spokes are 12ga. That's all I know.
Can anyone point me into the right direction for finding the spokes I need?

 

[docw009]

Have your shop measure the spoke length. Here's are two US sellers on ebay where I have bought 12G spokes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36-Custom-length-12g-2-6mm-Silver-Stainless-spokes-with-Silver-Brass-nipples/263804535542?hash=item3d6bf9c2f6:g:fK0AAOxyakdREdaZ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SAPIM-LEADER-Silver-Spokes-2-6mm-12g-56tpi-Any-Length-Any-Qty-Pedicab-NEW/263208760575?hash=item3d4876f4ff:m:mNCegLf9T0Vy7u4aQ12XLSA

if the shop doesn't know how to measure. Here's how.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdIjeiuG7Bw

 

[wturber]

You probably need to have your wheel rebuilt. When I started breaking spokes on a similar rim (Champion), I found that I had small cracks forming in the rim's spoke holes as shown in the picture below. They are hard to see and this one was one of the worst. You've gotta look close and maybe shift your lighting around. You may not see them at first.

Before I discovered the rim cracks after Amberwolf suggested this as the probably cause, I bought replacement spokes from Yojimbo's Garage on ebay (Just noticed that Yojimbo's garage is one of doc's recommendations as well). This guy will make custom sizes using high quality spokes and was pretty responsive on delivery. I ordered a 160mm length based on measuring my broken spokes. My spokes were broke at the elbow, so measuring was pretty straightforward.

You can certainly do the same and order replacements, but you if you have cracks, you should start planning on getting a new rim and rebuilding your wheel. The short story is that the wheels that are used for these kits are not strong enough to deal with the stress that a properly tensioned 12 gauge spoke puts on it. Once the rim starts to crack, there is more flexing and this is what starts to break the spokes. They really should use a smaller gauge spoke to begin with. I think the rim itself is probably of decent quality. My replacement wheel uses 13 gauge/14 gauge single butted spokes. I probably spent too much on my Cliffhanger rim. I suggest looking for a DM24 as a strong but moderately priced replacement.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SAPIM-LEADER-Silver-Spokes-2-6mm-12g-56tpi-Any-Length-Any-Qty-Pedicab-NEW/263208760575?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

[markz]

Custom cut spokes, from Vancouver, BC, Canada.
https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/spokes.html

USA somewhere, no address easily found but 587 area code - "Area code 573 serves most of the eastern half of Missouri outside the immediate St. Louis area."
https://holmeshobbies.com/bike-and-moped/spokes.html

Danscomp has plenty of spokes

same goes for Chain Reaction Cycle (182mm or higher) (has a filter)
Jenson USA would be about the same 182+ (no filter)

 

[furcifer]

Most reputable bicycle shops have a spoke threader. I think good ones run about $100. My guess would be they don't have the gauge of spoke and are too lazy and too stupid to source them.

 

[Pinesal]

Thanks everyone, I am going to call the bikeshop on Tuesday and direct them to this thread.

 

[wturber]

Thanks everyone, I am going to call the bikeshop on Tuesday and direct them to this thread.

That's going to go over really well.

 

[Pinesal]

Thanks everyone, I am going to call the bikeshop on Tuesday and direct them to this thread.

That's going to go over really well.

I'm glad it will go over well.

 

[docw009]

Isn't Portland the center of the US bike world?
https://www.tripsavvy.com/bike-shops-portland-4147295

Maybe you're at a shop where the staff have a fear and loathing of ebikes.

 

[markz]

A half dozen reputable traditional bike shops where I am, no one has a spoke threader. Only a single ebike store has one.

Most reputable bicycle shops have a spoke threader. I think good ones run about $100. My guess would be they don't have the gauge of spoke and are too lazy and too stupid to source them.

 

[furcifer]

A half dozen reputable traditional bike shops where I am, no one has a spoke threader. Only a single ebike store has one.

That's sad. I guess it's a sign of the times. With the garbage big box bikes it's easier and cheaper to buy a new wheel, and for the more expensive stuff you order it made. Is there any craftsmanship left in the world?

 

[MadRhino]

Try to avoid 12ga spokes from China. Buy Sapim or DT Swiss Stainless Steel spokes, with the longest nipples available. If you end up replacing the rim, you might as well lace it with 14 ga DT Swiss that should be available locally.

 

[wturber]

Try to avoid 12ga spokes from China. Buy Sapim or DT Swiss Stainless Steel spokes, with the longest nipples available. If you end up replacing the rim, you might as well lace it with 14 ga DT Swiss that should be available locally.

Yeah. The ebay guys we referenced sell only quality name brand spokes.

 

[wturber]

Is there any craftsmanship left in the world?

Sure. It's around. It just isn't that common. Probably never really was.
https://daves-wheels.com/

I suspect this guy is a craftsman as well.
http://www.yojimbosgarage.com/blog/?page_id=83

 

[markz]

Yup they are still around, but its the parents wanting their children to go to University that's discouraging the kids to take up a trade. A bicycle mechanic is not a Red Seal trade, which is where the money is. Kids these days do not want to get dirty, hence why there is a need for trades people in the major trades, Welder, Electrician, Plumber, Pipe Fitter, Boilmaker, Rig Hand, Steamfitter, Sheet Metal, HVAC, Machinist, HD Tech Mech, Auto Mech, Scaffolding Errector, Fall Arrest Installer, Auto Body and so on so forth.

The bicycle shops would have the normal sizes of spokes, but nothing sized for us ebikers.

I even emailed a couple motorcycle shops and no one there knew, both were custom motorbike shops, they'd be using 10g and thicker guage.

Quality spokes for a hub motor would be 13G or 13/14G butted. You want that flexibility in the spokes, otherwise you will break the spoke hole on the rim.

Is there any craftsmanship left in the world?

 

[Pinesal]

The bike shop said the spokes I need are 160mm long. None of the linked to stores in this thread show the length. Are they all a standard length or am I missing something?

EDIT. I seem the length on some "310mm". The custom ones can be any length I guess. Does 160mm sound right? I don't have the wheel in front of me anymore.

 

[wturber]

The bike shop said the spokes I need are 160mm long. None of the linked to stores in this thread show the length. Are they all a standard length or am I missing something?

EDIT. I seem the length on some "310mm". The custom ones can be any length I guess. Does 160mm sound right? I don't have the wheel in front of me anymore.

Yes. Go back to my original post where I gave that length and that I probably had the same setup. If you haven't done it already, I'd suggest looking closely for those cracks I mentioned. A magnifying glass or loupe will be helpful.

 

[Electric Earth]

Isn't Portland the center of the US bike world?
https://www.tripsavvy.com/bike-shops-portland-4147295

Maybe you're at a shop where the staff have a fear and loathing of ebikes.

I've spent some time in Portland. They have probably 5x more bike shops than the town I grew up in, but not any more Good bike shops than the town I grew up in. It's a city of quantity, not quality...

 

[Pinesal]

Ok one more thing

The bike shop wants me to order the spokes self.

Should I just order the spokes and install them myself and then bring the wheel in to be trued? Would I save money on labor that way?

 

[wturber]

Ok one more thing

The bike shop wants me to order the spokes self.

Should I just order the spokes and install them myself and then bring the wheel in to be trued? Would I save money on labor that way?

Are you going to have the whole wheel rebuilt or just replace broken spokes? If the latter, then just do it yourself. That's what I did. With only one or two broken spokes my wheel never came out of true.

My new spokes never broke. But older ones did. When I discovered the cracks in the rim after Amberwolf suggested looking for them, I stopped replacing spokes and had the wheel rebuilt by a custom wheel builder. If you haven't carefully checked your rim for cracks, you may be wasting time and money on a pointless "fix."

 

[Pinesal]

Ok one more thing

The bike shop wants me to order the spokes self.

Should I just order the spokes and install them myself and then bring the wheel in to be trued? Would I save money on labor that way?

Are you going to have the whole wheel rebuilt or just replace broken spokes? If the latter, then just do it yourself. That's what I did. With only one or two broken spokes my wheel never came out of true.

My new spokes never broke. But older ones did. When I discovered the cracks in the rim after Amberwolf suggested looking for them, I stopped replacing spokes and had the wheel rebuilt by a custom wheel builder. If you haven't carefully checked your rim for cracks, you may be wasting time and money on a pointless "fix."

The bike mechanic recomends that I just replace the broken spokes. I am going to take the wheel back. Inspect for cracks and if it looks ok, I'll replace the spokes myself and bring the wheel back to the shop to be trued.

 

[SamRich]

As Markz said (and many other on this forum) and my own experience 12GA is too big for most bicycle rims. 13G with reduction nipples (to fit a standard rim made for 14G nipples) has been my best option for DD hubs. Combined with a Sun Ringle Rhyno lite double walled rim, it will last forever (if built properly).

 

[MadRhino]

...Combined with a Sun Ringle Rhyno lite double walled rim, it will last forever (if built properly).

Sorry Sam
Forever for you, does sound one week to me. I have destroyed enough Rhino Lites. Not saying Sun rims are sh*t, we are many riding mountain trails on MTX 39 or Double Track. On the street I like them wider.

For spokes, I prefer using the best spokes that are readily available locally. Here it is the DT Swiss 14ga black SS, that most bike shops have in stock.

 

[SamRich]

...Combined with a Sun Ringle Rhyno lite double walled rim, it will last forever (if built properly).

Sorry Sam
Forever for you, does sound one week to me. I have destroyed enough Rhino Lites. Not saying Sun rims are sh*t, we are many riding mountain trails on MTX 39 or Double Track. On the street I like them wider.

For spokes, I prefer using the best spokes that are readily available locally. Here it is the DT Swiss 14ga black SS, that most bike shops have in stock.

Point well taken. My experience is mainly on streets (and I assume OP's as well). I was going to recommend a any "decent" rim but decided to name a specific model that I like. The MTX 39 is better option but also more expensive - I mean where do one draw the line when one bought the whole DD wheel for $150 shipped?

Maybe I should have written: "it will last forever*."
*YMMV

I just know that those cheap no eyelet rims don't last very long with 12G spokes and replacing a spoke won't fix the root cause.