Which bottle battery is right for 36V BBS-01 350W?

[Andre Jute]

Which 36V bottle-type battery should I fit to my Bafang BBS01 350W mid-motor-equipped bike to ensure that it makes it to the top of all my hills. The bike is a Utopia Kranich crossframe fitted with a Rolloff 14-speed hub gearbox, and the total all-up weight is 125kg when my painting kit is in the pannier basket.

According to the manufacturer, "The 36v 350w Bafang BBS01 Mid Drive Conversion Kit can be used with a 36-38v nominal battery that is rated to discharge 18 amps of continuous and 20 amps of max current."

 

[Nobuo]

this one has high quality cells and enough parallels to discharge efficiently 20A continuous (BMS is customizable with different discharging rates)

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...-electrice-bike-with/1804469_32279178371.html

If all the specifications are real, it will have a very efficiently 720Wh to use with your motor&controller combo

 

[greg00]

I got 2 "bottle 09" panasonic batteries from BMSbat...
48V and 36V versions. They have both more or less the same amount of juice.
With the 48V battery and a bbs02 500W motor I can reach 40km with about 800m elevation with pedaling.
One the flat I guess it's good for 60-70km. But here in Switzerlandit's it hard to find a long enough flat stretch road and I won't turn circles to test it

 

[Andre Jute]

this one has high quality cells and enough parallels to discharge efficiently 20A continuous (BMS is customizable with different discharging rates)

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...-electrice-bike-with/1804469_32279178371.html

If all the specifications are real, it will have a very efficiently 720Wh to use with your motor&controller combo

Thanks for the link. "If all the specifications are real" -- I wonder why they say the "Standard Discharge Current", which I read as "continuous current" is only 10A or if that's just careless copywriting for the ad.

In any event, this bottle battery is 19in long, probably impossible to fit. This is my bike with the 13in bottle battery of my previous front motor setup, since replaced with a Bafang BBS-01 mid-motor. You can see that to make the bottle fit I had to raise the cradle over the sockets for the bottle holder with studs. A 19in bottle would be difficult to fit except on the rack, where it would ruin the bike's handling.

 

[Nobuo]

interesting frame!
A small battery like yours would be enough for that motor, just need to have real high quality cells like Samsung, Panasonic, LG. That secure the cells will stand right discharge ratios for the chemistry with rough hills, and not a battery to be too stressed with unknown cells and with a life span less than a year..

 

[Andre Jute]

I got 2 "bottle 09" panasonic batteries from BMSbat...
48V and 36V versions. They have both more or less the same amount of juice.
With the 48V battery and a bbs02 500W motor I can reach 40km with about 800m elevation with pedaling.
One the flat I guess it's good for 60-70km. But here in Switzerlandit's it hard to find a long enough flat stretch road and I won't turn circles to test it

Thanks for you help.

Okay, this is the socalled "Dolphin" bottle.

I already have a bottle in the original water bottle shape with Panasonic cells, 9Ah, from 2011. No further data is available about discharge rates, etc but I expect it is good for 9A continuous and about 13.5A peak. It appears to be still a good battery but gets a bit short of breath with my new BBS-01 350W mid-motor near the top of the hill, every hill. Clearly I need a battery with a higher continuous current output.

The actual amount of juice is irrelevant. My longest ride is 22km and the hardest ride consumes less than 5Ah. I'm buying a bigger battery for higher instantaneous current delivery on hills, not for speed, not for distance.

I'm not keen on buying from China. I live in Ireland, where the import duty and VAT will be levied on the price and the carriage and unknown formfilling fees of the couriers, plus possibly a 48% anti-dumping loading on bicycle parts... It makes buying in China very risky and likely expensive.

Do you know of an EU vendor who has a water bottle shape or Dolphin shape bottle 36V and roundabout 13 or 14 or 15Ah (or better)? I'll take a bottle using either the Panasonic or Samsung batteries.

I have found these Dolphin bottles with Samsung 2.9Ah batteries, but the sellers are out of stock:
http://eclipsebikes.com/145ah-lithium-frame-battery-samsung-cells-p-1104.html
http://www.wooshbikes.co.uk/?batteries#batkit (about a third of the way down the page)

 

[Andre Jute]

interesting frame!

It's a modern recreation of the Locomotief Unisex Deluxe of 1936, built by Locomotief and Gazelle right into the 1960s, revived by Utopia of Germany, redesigned from the ground up around Schwalbe Big Apple 29er tyres: a beautifully smooth ride. Detailed photo-essay at
http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf

A small battery like yours would be enough for that motor, just need to have real high quality cells like Samsung, Panasonic, LG. That secure the cells will stand right discharge ratios for the chemistry with rough hills, and not a battery to be too stressed with unknown cells and with a life span less than a year..

That particular battery is from 2011, built with the Panasonic cells then available. It's still good, actually, just underpowered for the 350W motor.

Are you suggesting I rebuild the battery with more modern cells?

 

[Nobuo]

Of course I would rebuild the battery with some Panasonic/Samsumg NCA 2.9Ah. Or even Samsung 25R if necessary.

But you need a spot welder to do in the right way. (indeed you only need that and some nickel tabs) You could use the same BMS and internal brackets

 

[markz]

I read somewhere you can buy the bottle and base, empty, and install your own cells or batteries.
Just a thought for higher discharges.

 

[Andre Jute]

I read somewhere you can buy the bottle and base, empty, and install your own cells or batteries.
Just a thought for higher discharges.

I looked into the possibility, and you can get all the components from BMS, but I'm not planning on buying a spot welder, which Nobuo thinks is essential. Also, the price of the cells at retail makes a readybuilt bottle very attractive, if only I can find one in a form factor to fit.

One of my other hobbies is designing and building high tension thermionic tube ultrafi amplifiers, some of them operating off 1500V. I don't publish the really high tension amps for fear of idiots killing themselves, but some of the lower voltage but still dangerous circuits are at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/JUTE ON AMPS.htm
My electrostatic loudspeakers have 5500V between the anodes. Doing high tension electronics, you soon learn how easily it can go wrong, so a spot of self-preserving paranoia also inclines me towards a battery ready-built by reputable maker.

 

[markz]

So you want concealment, stealth is that why you want the bottle?
BMSB is attractive in price, until you go to the Cart to checkout, then you realize you are paying an extra $100 for s/h.
Thats been my expirience, looking at 48V+ bricks, not bottles. I can only assume its in the same ballpark for s/h prices.

 

[Andre Jute]

So you want concealment, stealth is that why you want the bottle?
BMSB is attractive in price, until you go to the Cart to checkout, then you realize you are paying an extra $100 for s/h.
Thats been my expirience, looking at 48V+ bricks, not bottles. I can only assume its in the same ballpark for s/h prices.

The idea of the bottle battery is that it fits the available space. See the photo earlier in the thread. I used the bottle battery pictured with my previous motor setup, and it proved entirely satisfactory, but now I need a battery with more instantaneous current capability.

I live in the Republic of Ireland, so these Chinese dealers are a potentially expensive unknown for me. See, I have to pay for the goods plus the carriage plus the courier's formfilling fees, and then on the total of that a precentage for import duty, and on the new total sales tax of 21% (called VAT in Europe) and then could be hit with special 48% anti-bicycle-dumping loading. I don't know anyone who got hit with the last, but it's on the Customs and Excise netsite, a possibility...So every FOB dollar in China could be 3 or 4 dollars landed at my door. And the price at BMS after you include the carriage, isn't all that much less than the tax-inclusive price of dealers just in the next over, or other European dealers I've dealt with in the past.